Adventure Updates - Daily Credits!

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  • In the grand scheme of things, 20bcr a day isn't going to make people not want to buy credits. Especially since IRE's new business model seems to be based around promotional items that you can only get for a limited time that can't be bought with BCR. People will spend their credits on things and when they find something they really want, they'll be impatient and buy the credits to get it sooner, because instant gratification rules the market. 

    Additionally, with most promotional items not being available for bound credits, people will still want the newest gadget, collectible, cosmetic, or circumstantial bonus that's being pushed on the market for the month. The tokens are a perfect example. Paux can't do very many adventures do to the being around during off-peak hours and the fact that I don't have my marque, seafaring, a ship, a pebble, or agith'maal card. So When I look at that list, I see 287 items I just can't do and a few that I can do if I'm careful and if the opportunity presents itself (eg, the mob isn't dead). After finally completing an adventure, I eagerly went to spin the wheel. I watched as someone spun the wheel and got a set of artefact bracers and thought "Wow, I could get something awesome!". I spun the wheel and got a critical bonus. Frustrated, I purchased a token for $9.99 to spin again and got an artefact vial- something I would have never bought for myself and adds little value to my character. So I spent $9.99 to get 26bcr in value. 

    And if someone does hit 20bcr a day for 2 years and amasses a good amount of credits, then they'll feel like the game is rewarding them for playing and they'll keep playing. I know Druids who logged in religiously to get their lessons from their Grove Hive because it was adding value to their time. And there were times they popped in to get them and left, but sometimes they logged in thinking they were going to just leave and found something interesting that kept them there and they continued adding to the live atmosphere of Achaea. And they still bought credits to get the newest pet crate! 

    In my opinion the problem with the market isn't that young free to play players can make credits everyday and work toward becoming established characters- it's that established characters can do it faster, easier, and more efficiently, choking out the new players from getting them. Which is a balance, because you want people to feel they're getting value while also protecting the interests of young inexperienced players.


  • I hope that made any sense at all, I'm not awake yet.  

    Love the adventures thing, I just wish I could do more of them.
  • edited March 2020
    You can get 300 in about 10 minutes with a partner at the arena. 400 if you have a method of flying and know how to hit Saar-elan. Outside of that, things get level-gated -fast-. Medium hunting adventures require 80+ and either a good hunting class or a few arties, as best as I can tell, seafaring ones require either sailing or docked ship access (and I gotta say, dashing around the continent to board/embark adventure/disembark feels -incredibly- game-y), and good luck with the harder combat ones if you're not already skilled.

    Auto-embarking, level-appropriate hunting adventures (better yet, city appropriate ones too, so that at least it feels like there's a modicum of roleplay to it), better renown gains for quests, and lower-leveled forays that are achievable if you get a group of people around level eighty together would all make the system feel much more like it encourages actually playing the game, and not having to just check off boxes.

    I still think that having this system is a huge improvement over -not- having it, since hunting for gold was already a super gamey part of things, and fishing for hours is less lucrative and more boring. But it could definitely use some work to feel less like a chore.
  • Has a group of level 80's tried doing any forays? They are supposed to descale to level, but I don't know how the curve actually is. 

    I'd like to see the PK adventures buffed up a bit now that they can't be farmed on citymates. As well as the detonating/disarming tanks. Not much really compares to voyages/hunting ones right now.

    Could also expand the lists. Add the UW Ur'vamps/Kemnast to the list. Contract adventure for marks, one for relinquishing essence during a crusade. I'd also like to see exploration given some more options if it is to remain a theme. And I do think quests should be buffed up a bit. The UW quests are the only ones that feel worth it for renown, would love to see things like the Elemental faction quests raised to the same standard for renown, as well as places like Tir and Annwyn.

    But, I've been having a damn blast with this system thus far.
  • Taryius said:
    Has a group of level 80's tried doing any forays? They are supposed to descale to level, but I don't know how the curve actually is. 

    I'd like to see the PK adventures buffed up a bit now that they can't be farmed on citymates. As well as the detonating/disarming tanks. Not much really compares to voyages/hunting ones right now.

    Could also expand the lists. Add the UW Ur'vamps/Kemnast to the list. Contract adventure for marks, one for relinquishing essence during a crusade. I'd also like to see exploration given some more options if it is to remain a theme. And I do think quests should be buffed up a bit. The UW quests are the only ones that feel worth it for renown, would love to see things like the Elemental faction quests raised to the same standard for renown, as well as places like Tir and Annwyn.

    But, I've been having a damn blast with this system thus far.
    A group of level 80s, awhile back, did it.

    They immediately got slaughtered. To the point that they weren't even able to kill the mobs to get even close to the boss. Maybe the scaling has actually been fixed... but the difference between level 80 and level 99 isn't just level. It's a TON of arties.
  • Adrik said:
    They immediately got slaughtered. To the point that they weren't even able to kill the mobs to get even close to the boss. Maybe the scaling has actually been fixed... but the difference between level 80 and level 99 isn't just level. It's a TON of arties.
    Scaling of group size is also weird. Did Icosse with 5 people, and shit hurt even with arties/dragon... Did it with 3 and it was kinda cake, aside from multiple magic shades.


  • ... You can't.. Do Icosse with 3 people..?

    Unless you mean 4 overall vs 6 overall.
  • Not sure this is the best place to ask about this, but it's become more evident for me with the new Renown system.
    As a person who likes the lore and exploration aspects above all other things in Achaea (and try to get my dcr through questing), I find that there is a lot of discrepancy between some areas that are full of quests and some areas that have 'quest-like tasks' that aren't flagged as such (they create no entry in the QUEST LOG and therefore reward no renown). I understand that they were built at different times and by different people, but are there any plans to go through all the areas and properly create quest entries for all tasks that are quest-tasks in essence?

    Off the top of my head, Eirenwaar and Isaia are both full of activities that are counted as quests in other areas (kill tasks, fetch tasks, courier tasks, even more elaborate tasks such as rituals) and yet there isn't a single entry in the quest log for any of them.
  • There are a number of areas like this, unfortunately. You can tell if the quests won't grant renown if you do QUEST LOG COMPLETED <AREA NAME> and it says you've completed 0/0 quests. It just means none are in the system.

    If we're adding stuff to a wish list, I'd like to see Creville added personally.
  • I suspect they are regularly adding older quests, but it's just very time-consuming. I have no idea in which way the old quests were stored/coded, but depending on how messy that is, it would involve a lot of manual work.
  • Iocun said:
    I suspect they are regularly adding older quests, but it's just very time-consuming. I have no idea in which way the old quests were stored/coded, but depending on how messy that is, it would involve a lot of manual work.
    This, it gets prio’d low compared to other stuff they are working on, so it can take a while. I would second that quests need significant renown boost, voyages feel right, and quests shouldn’t depend wholly on your level, but have them reward a flat 50 renown and a bonus scaled on level (doing 10 tir quests should half cap renown, while doing all of actar should give 350 iirc how many quests are there).
  • One large hole as far as QUEST LOG goes is Meropis: With one exception, to my knowledge none of the areas in Meropis presently have documented quests.
  • Oh totally, I can imagine it's a titanic task to complete, just thought I'd draw a bit of attention to it. #questerProblems :smiley:
  • On that note, I bugged 6 or 7 quests that were missing from the quest system and they all got removed for not being bugs. The response didn't really make it clear how to make these missing quests known to administration otherwise... any ideas?

  • Well, they probably know about them. Bugging every single one of these quests would be futile, considering how many there are.
  • Is there a possibility of adding more stuff to the daily credits?

    I login and I'm not motivated to even try because 90% of them are kill X mob (that's already killed). The rest being fight players or do seamonster hunting are not the easiest or most possible to do. I'm probably missing an untapped portion I could be accessing that isn't on the list.

    Other IREs are doing it so much better than Achaea. Maybe there's limitations or something I'm not aware of but even when adventures existed before there were more choices. Can we involve things like gambling, or actual exploration (like discovering a location you've not been before, like a new room), or hitting a certain rank on a ranking, or a hundred other aspects of the game that are being ignored. 

    Here's a few more: Submitting a crafting design, approving one, having one approved, crafting an item via a tradeskill. 

    BIG SUGGESTION: Have the theme make ALL adventures tied to it double renown. It's not going to break the game.

  • Can we tie resolutions and adventuring together?
  • I was wondering this yesterday as well.. instead of multiple systems.

  • First things first, I love this system, and it is still very profitable at low levels. Right after making this char I made like 7 cr without even having read news and learned about the system, just doing minia/actar quests. Now of course someone who does not know about the quests already would have more trouble, but they are not exactly hidden, and the minia ones even have a thing on the mob that says they look like they have something to say.
    Secondly, I do not see where the arguement before makes any sense. The basic idea of buying credits and things for online games has always been that you can work for it, or take this easier root to get it quickly. This simply allows this choice to be struck, instead of forcing people to pay or end up weaker. Thanks to the admin for making this system, I look forward to working my through each of these tasks and exploring what happens.
  • I'm not sure if you're referring to me @Elansha but my point wasn't very clear so I'll restate it.

    The system is just not engaging because the types of things you can do to work for it are tedious and uninteresting. It's not enjoyable to use.

    Most of it requires teamwork or significant financial investment (ships, pvp), which is fine. But if you have limited time to play, different hours than most people, or you're relying on this system to get you going, you're pretty screwed. I'm a loner and socially awkward in real life - I'm writing a post about a MUD at 2 AM! No matter how hard I try to roleplay the opposite, I'm still going to struggle to make friends and do these things. This point is personal to me so it most likely doesn't apply to anyone else, but that turns this system into a major obstacle for me to overcome daily.

    What I would like is more things added to it that are engaging and rewarding. If they're easier to do, then do what other games did: all of the easy stuff (like exploring a new room, playing blackjack, doing a daily quest) will only ever reward you with 10 credits total out of the 20 possible.  Converting the adventure system seems to be more of an issue than help. 

    This system has three major problems:
    1. You have to EMBARK before accomplishing a task. 
    2. The renown amounts are secret.
    3. There are not enough choices.

    Expanding on that:
    Renown should be something that happens passively and naturally to you playing and not an incredibly unwieldy list of stuff you have to hope you don't type the wrong number for and screw yourself. Have the EMBARK part changed to DISEMBARK and allow people to claim adventure renown. That's thematically more appropriate, too. Not knowing the renown amounts makes picking that ONE-TIME double bonus even harder. The majority of the people who are doing them successfully each month have hit a rotation of doing the same thing each month and that leaves certain adventures harder to accomplish for others. This is mostly mobs being dead and people constantly seamonstering.

    I don't want it to be easy to get 20 credits every day. That would be bad for a lot of reasons. I want it to be fun to get a good portion without making it your only goal for the day. I want it to feel like a reward for playing and not a chore. Getting that taste of bound credits doesn't allow you the luxury of Maya Crowns, Talismans, or selling them for heaps of gold. There's still a lot of reasons to spend money.


    Click the spoiler for my thoughts on game design:

    The problem with the basic idea being you can "Work for it" or take the "Easy(Monetary) way" is balance. I'm not great at explaining so I'll try to give an extreme example. Please look for the point and not try to find the flaws to counter it right away, this isn't airtight.

    ---
    I have a game you can play for free called "Chess" and when you manage to move one of your pieces to the opposite side of the board, a slow and arduous journey which requires a lot of planning and work, you can promote it to be the most powerful piece on the board (or one of many). Thankfully, you have 8 pawns and 8 other uniquely powerful pieces ready to go to help you accomplish this task.

    Now imagine that same game but this time, you only have half as many pawns and that's it. However, you can spend money to recover the pieces you're missing and even promote your pawns right away. You can still make your way there with the pieces you want and it is still possible, just difficult.
    ---

    Just being able to "Work for it" is not enough to be a fair, engaging, or worthwhile. The point is to make that "Work for it" fun enough that when a roadblock comes up, the money flows easily. It's a balancing act to fill your world with players and give a means for more people to gain investment in the game. Investment into the game usually brings about spending by forging a connection. It takes the game and turns it into a valuable hobby which the player wants to support. 

    Why would you want more people to have more stuff? There's always more stuff to be had! The world is filled with people who are taking part in it also gives players more confidence when buying. If more people are invested and playing, then there's more content being created by the player base and more of a reason to invest. This is why MMOs go free-to-play and find themselves even more profitable than a subscription model. Achaea has existed this long because it was always a free-to-play microtransactions game. It suffers from the niche type of game it is and the competition between itself and the other top-ten muds on the voting site. 

    I don't believe getting 20 credits a day should be easy and take you a few minutes. That would be a bad thing. It would be bad for the same reason this being too hard and unengaging is bad: It would mean playing for the login bonus(Renown) and logging out. This is what a lot of people are doing currently. 

    Think of any other microtransaction game you've ever played. You have a login bonus just for playing. There's a lot to do that's free and engaging. Eventually, there's a sale for premium content/currency. Then you hit a roadblock and either spend your accumulated login bonus or purchase.

    Now to look at that in Achaea terms: You have a login bonus just for playing(That's supposed to be the renown system). There's a lot to do that's free and engaging(Talk to people, quest, hunt, city/guild/order, Roleplay, fishing, etc). Eventually, there's a sale for premium content/currency(Monthly promos). Then you hit a roadblock(Needing an artefact or trying to learn a skill) and either spend your accumulated login bonus(About 290 credits for one major skill, 15 days worth of maximized renown) or purchase(Membership/Promo/No-Brainer).

    Right now, when you login, and if you're trying to get the maximum free credits, it could take your entire available playtime. You may never get to the other free and engaging part of the world. (I would give 10 renown for people doing a custom EMOTE, for example. You can only earn renown from a source once per RL day anyway.) The HOOK is the roadblock. 



  • Maajida said:

    Right now, when you login, and if you're trying to get the maximum free credits, it could take your entire available playtime. You may never get to the other free and engaging part of the world. 


    Yes, this is exactly one of the issues I have with it as well. Achaea has always prided itself as a game where you can choose your own role and play in vastly different ways, from combat, over politics, to RP on various scales, yet the whole adventure/renown system encourages people do play Achaea one very specific way, the way the developers have laid out for us.

    And the greater the rewards for this are, the more problematic this becomes. This month we even have a promo that is based on reaching the renown cap - something that really requires you to abandon your normal playstyle and simply spend all of your play time renown-farming. I know this is entirely optional (I, for one, won't be doing it), but I still dislike how it encourages a very one-dimensional form of playing.
  • The other IREs have it pegged that an average player should be able to get 20 credits after 2 hours of playing. Not sure how true this is with Achaea's version, but from experience, this is not the case. Personally, it takes a lot more time and effort to grind up the credits, so there's less time and energy to do other, more substantial, things.
  • Bulan said:
    The other IREs have it pegged that an average player should be able to get 20 credits after 2 hours of playing. Not sure how true this is with Achaea's version, but from experience, this is not the case. Personally, it takes a lot more time and effort to grind up the credits, so there's less time and energy to do other, more substantial, things.
    The only similarities between them is that Achaea also has group options that let you cap renown in 20 minutes... If you're a high enough level.

    Beyond that, the solo methods are garbage. Less so if you're not a high level.


  • edited April 2020
    I have a complaint about the adventure system that is not really related to the adventures and credits themselves but I think it relates to the issues you're talking about.

    I started playing a short time before the adventure system was implemented and during that time I had the opportunity to participate often in raids, defenses, and other group content because quite simply they were always occurring. While I think that the addition of alternative credit avenues, especially for novices is GREAT, now it seems that this system has caused a steep decline in the amount of time I've spent doing... anything, with anyone. Everyone is always busy doing forays or things that require being a dragon, spending the majority of their time trying to cap at 2000 renown each day and I find that rather disappointing when I compare it to the experience I had in my first month.

    Personally, I don't understand why such a system favours the long-term players that are in less dire need of credits compared to the need of newer players.
  • I got excited when I heard Achaea is finally implementing daily credits, but after a few weeks of grinding for 3-7 credits a day, I got burnt out. It's not at all newbie-friendly, although I guess it's possible that the system was implemented as a reward for long-time 'loyalty' players.
  • Agreed, amazing system. If you have a ton of artifacts and Dragon/Ship/Etc and or a group of people that have them, so they can carry you. Which I thank you lot hugely, without you guys I would not even come close to the cap!

    If you are not Dragon and don't have many artifacts and don't have ship/seafaring, then you'll be hard pushed to get 200/300 renown a day. Need to be more choices for us little people.
  • edited April 2020
    If the intention is that it is possible for everyone to get to 2000 renown in a month, everyday quest renown needs to be upped. These are the things most easily done by non-dragons, but they are not particularly rewarding. Most quests seem like they should be moved 1 tier (e.g., a quest that gives 16 in levels 80-90  and 0 in levels 90-100 should give 16 again in 90-100), or every quest should have a static 16 renown added to it or something as a baseline in addition to what it currently offers.
  • There's an easy arena adventure loop you can do to get 300 renown in about 10 minutes. I barely bother with anything beside that because it starts taking up a lot of time that I'd rather spend actually playing the game.

    It still beats having newbies need to hunt or fish for their grind, but I very much wish that the rates looked more like what other games have implemented.
  • Keorin said:
    There's an easy arena adventure loop you can do to get 300 renown in about 10 minutes.

    This.  And it isn't usually hard to get enough people to go bash Mhunna or Khulhedra (easier than Mhunna) for enough to get a free spin. You can even hit and run with relative ease.  You may not cap out, but it's enough for a couple credits and a spin.  Honestly, I like the system.  You can put as much time/effort in as needed/wanted. For the tougher ones it requires interaction with House, City, Order, etc.  3-5cr a day is not bad for a newbie honestly. And it only gets better up to 20 as you go along. I think it's at a decent balance point. 

    The one thing I think would be nice, if changed, is that resolutions should be swapped over to be adventures.  Maybe even keep the token prize for the resolutions since it is it's own currency.  And maybe make it so that adventures are auto-completed without embarking.

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