I've been looking over all the ideas and some of the feedback with foraging, and figured it could use its own thread!
What do people think so far? Do people like it? What needs improved?
My thoughts: Wood is not spawning nearly enough. I am getting maybe 300-600 per IG year (12.5 days) at most. The commodity market has been drained pretty dry. As of this writing, there is a total of 10,106 wood total on CM LIST. A list of things that take wood:
Room credits (200 wood per, 10 room credits per room = 2000 wood per room In-subs)
Ships (1 Shipwood = 50 wood + 10 iron. Windcutter = 200 shipwood = 10,000 wood)
Furnishing (Ranging from 100-ish wood to 1000+ wood per item)
While it can be argued these numbers are hyperbole to prove a point, the point I am trying to make is with the current wood production, many of these items went from somewhat hard to obtain to incredibly hard or bordering on prohibitive.
It costs me <1g per wood to forage it up, though I'm only able to earn about 20-30 per hour while supplies last. It is as if comm shops had their prices reduced to 1 gold per wood, but people could only buy 30 wood an hour, until stock ran out. Everyone is going to flood in, buy their daily wood for practically zero cost, effort or risk, even if it isn't going to be used, and because it costs 1g per there is no reason not to resell it. The people that actually need or want more than 30 wood per hour need to pay whatever prices others are selling at, and demand is high, so prices are high.
It'd be less impactful if more could be foraged by an individual, had a gold cost that dissuaded mindless participation, or aggressive foraging methods were more impactful and could actually kill foraging parties of people.
We'll talk about wood production, but I do think the scale of participation has made our numbers a little conservative when it comes to forager battles. Now that we have some data to work with we can definitely adjust those upwards to make that more viable.
Increased gold costs, possibly something we can do. We set these low initially to avoid punishing people with early-release mistakes, it may be worth reevaluating at this juncture.
That 14 wood though.
We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.
Shipfitting I'm sure is even more nuts.
And that's not counting casks and whatnot.
When production is so far outstripped by the costs of things, it gets a little ridiculous, and having at least two high-expenditure activities (housing, shipfitting) tied to one very limited resource is punishing on the player. Frankly, I'd rather not have to forage for a couple RL months to be able to build my house in a game.
I started foraging the Northern Ithmia as soon as Winter started. I finished in 24 hours to it being completely dry. I said to myself "No way everywhere else is dry!"
I then checked. "This area is devoid of resources." For every single area.
I tried to do offensive forager stuff, since i had level 4 gobbos. Took 30 damage within 1 hour to one of my goblins and 2 others took 20. I'm a bit unsure why two took no damage, but it reallllyyy feels like i should absolutely NEVER send my guys on the offensive unless i am staring at my screen and know when to foragers recall. (Since you get nothing unless you full wipe an enemy squad).
There's no way to get some things if you're not going to buy it from others, and since the admins won't step in to regulate markets, the situation you get is a complete and utter mess.
As I said before, I definitely don't want to wait to save up 16,000 wood to get an upgrade at, what, 500 wood per month if I'm extremely lucky and never have a bad foraging day?
No, thank you.
The gold was never really the issue. People who want to make a home, or GOD FORBID, use a tradeskill or keep city improvements up have a huge uphill battle.
Also your assessment is off. As i said above. Winter started. I foraged one area in 24 hours to the point it was depleted.
I tried to scout directly after they came back. Every forest/jungle area was "devoid of resources."
So, it's more like you get 1000 a year, IF you're lucky maybe 1500.
That's 15 IG years, or a chill 6 RL months. Now, I'd personally disagree that adding on a massive time requirement like that onto something that didn't require it isn't out of whack. But what you can't say is that the time -and- gold spent are fairly comparable when you need to wait several RL months to get the same amount of wood as you'd get in the old system, with the same amount of gold spent.
I used to be able to get a few thousand wood by just casually checking in on comm shops once a day or so, there is no possible way for me to actually earn anything near that amount anymore. Instead I would have to shell out large amounts of gold to other people for their time, putting a greater stress on the credit market because my gold isn't vanishing.
Maybe we should be able to decide how much we want to pay our foragers, and if they had a higher wage they'd forage better and draw from a pool of wood/fibre that non-paying foragers didn't have access to (because unpaid foragers are just going to pick up whats easily available, better paid foragers dig deep into the bushes and dirt to get every chunk of wood available.).
Reaching down with a massive hand, Sartan lifts your head and draws a taloned finger across your throat, the wound closing as He does so.
ETA: I mean RL days. So like, two months in to a full season.
It is not intended for you to forage enough to build houses within RL days. What in the hell would make you think that was intended? You will either have to put in a lot of time, or buy comms from the market.
The reason that the market is so high right now is because in general people who play Achaea have no clue how economies work, or how new features work. It will cool off in a few weeks when most people give up.
To your latter point, the market is high due to the extremely basic economical principle of supply versus demand. Demand is higher than before due to shipfitting and beverages, while supply at least appears far lower because it is divided among several people, many of whom are in the process of gathering more, not selling. You can see this in the way cloth and fibre are far more stable. Demand is far, far lower. People are more willing to sell fibre, while fewer are buying.
I don't want (more) arbitrary waiting periods imposed upon me to enjoy another aspect of the game.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
Now.. either something's fucky, or this damage to damage ratio is horrendously skewed.
I have 1 forager at 81hp, 1 at 72hp, 1 at 53hp, 1 at 35hp, and 1 at 25hp.
Now, there's a few explanations for what the shit happened:
A) The person saw they got hit once and immediately began the recall process (4 hours, so I think 3 more ticks to actually be hit)... and they somehow survived said process with 15 foragers bearing down on them.
'Allied' Foragers (Same-City) do not work, and we're all just pummeling the shit out of eachother.
C) They were on diplomatic and told my foragers to just not fucking attack. Except the one at 25hp. He got fucked.
I'd really, really rather foragers attack as a somewhat single cohesive unit, instead of one of my foragers being at 90% hp, and another one of mine being at 30%ish.
As it stands right now, if a group of 15 forager goblins all set to aggressive cannot take out an entire squad (which is what is needed to take their wood gathered. If even a single one escapes, he brings all the wood back to the owner of that squad)... And people can immediately recall the second they see their foragers HP go down. It's kind of skewed too heavily to the Defender.
ESPECIALLY given that if you think you can survive 3 hits after recall... and you know the aggressive foragers also take as much, if not more damage from it... if their owner isn't around (for whatever reason).. you can literally just fucking recall, get your foragers back (instant heal back to full), and then immediately send them back to the same area. Which means you can get those aggressive foragers to, quite literally, kill themselves.
Compounding this, you don't know if your forager actually has found some people to attack, what their current HP is at, and there's no way to tell foragers to not-fucking-kill-themselves over picking a fight.
I like the concept, mostly because I like idle games. However, I think there's a few things that need to be looked over.
A ) Aggressive should not mean "Time to fucking kill myself." There should be a threshold at which if they know they would not survive an attack, they stop. Self Preservation > the piddly amount of gold they get paid.
B ) Let me spend gold to give health sips to my foragers. Let's Pokemon Go this shit.
C ) Recalling needs to be adjusted so that you cannot send your foragers back to the same area they were just at for at least another little while.
But seriously.. feels like a lot of areas are not really throwing out anything? I've sent mine in lots of forest and plain areas where it seems like they are always devoid. Can't go scouting the world everytime so I just send them to places as well, can't imagine it all being empty all the time though. Admins, give us more wood and fibre so we can grow rich and fat!