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Garden Q&A!

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  • SobriquetSobriquet Member Posts: 2,308 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Thanks :)
    image
  • SthenoStheno Member Posts: 95 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Part of the Celani application is writing room descriptions and an event synopsis. Is it good to include existing rooms you've written for Achaea (that have made it in) or preferable to write something new? How out there can the event example be? (e.g. "We don't think this would ever happen, but we like your panache.")
    Hey, little songbird, look all around you.
    See how the vipers and vultures surround you.
  • NicolaNicola Administrator Posts: 774 Achaean staff
    Definitely write new rooms, the more original (but still fitting) an event idea is, the better.

    I can't tell you how many event ideas in applications we've had that are Someone Bad does some ritual and something horrible comes out of a portal to attack (most commonly demons attacking various non Mhaldor orgs). Take what you know of Achaea and its insanely vast lore and excite us!

    SthenoErwinSiduri
  • AralayaAralaya Member Posts: 1,224 @ - Epic Achaean
    I have another question.

    Say someone applies for Celani and gets selected. Is it an immediate you can't log in to your characters or do you have time to like, sort things out IC and then step into your roll?


    Tecton-Today at 6:17 PM

    teehee b.u.t.t. pirates
  • AgzohmqueksAgzohmqueks Member Posts: 15 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited October 2018
    - Do you consider a character/player's history with issue resolutions when deciding if they are fit for the position? If so, do you take into account that the people deciding the issues could very well be wrong, since they are human and not infallible? Would that just be something that would come up in an interview, or are you likely to flag someone who has, for example, been accused of "Blatant lying in an issue" as not eligible for promotion to Celani, even if this accusation was completely wrong?
    - At what stage, if any, are Celani or Gods involved in deciding issues? Or is there seperate staff for this? Are there any requirement for previous experience in mediation, or customer or conflict resolution before being involved in deciding the outcomes of issues?
    - Are you looking for anyone who has a strong desire to improve admin-like functions and processes, such as issue resolution and customer contact/relations, to join the team?
    - How do you stop personal bias, or misinformation spread by things like poor handling of issues, creeping into the decision making for things like promotion to Celani, or deciding on issues?


    (Party): You say, "Since we are discussing it OOC, I'll let you know that I'm from Australia."
    (Party): Mariya says, "That does explain a number of things."
  • AegisAegis Moderator Posts: 35 Immortal
    edited October 2018
    Aralaya said:
    I have another question.

    Say someone applies for Celani and gets selected. Is it an immediate you can't log in to your characters or do you have time to like, sort things out IC and then step into your roll?
    Things may have changed here and there (I'll differ to @Nicola for a more accurate answer), but I believe you have a tiny window of time after being informed about your successful application for Celanihood to prepare yourself to head up. When I mean "tiny window of time", personal experience tells me roughly a day or less.

    If you're applying for Celanihood, it means you're contented with the story you have eked out for your character thus far, and are more or less ready to let go when the time comes. Therefore, it shouldn't take you very long to settle things and head up.

    NicolaAralayaAilea
  • VastarVastar Member, Moderator, Seafaring Liason, Secret Squirrel Posts: 68 Immortal
    Babel said:
    I'd strongly suggest against applying if your character is like, mid term in a big leadership role, or still has attainable aspirations to fulfill, or anything else that you've had an itch to do on them for a long while.
    This is something that bears repeating, as does the rest of Babel's post (Aegis as well). If you do leave aspirations undone, or you know your character's story is unfinished, then you will almost certainly have a more difficult time putting your character (or characters!) behind you.

    It's not about being bored with or tired of your character in the moment as much as it is about being ready for their story to actually end. If you genuinely think that there are still things you'd like to do, accomplish, or acquire, or that you really just need to take a break from playing your character (all that requires is not logging in and going outside!), then it may not be for you. If it might be for you in the future, however, then you can always watch for another Celani call at a later date.
    UtianimaAralaya
  • NicolaNicola Administrator Posts: 774 Achaean staff
    It looks like Aegis, Babel, and Vastar have covered this, but I'll just add on that intake is time consuming and I always think it's worth doing this at a time when the new celani has a few hours free to soak it all in. If we accepted a person on a Friday but they have a weekend of plans or a long work nightmare scheduled, then we'd be fine to intake during the next week.
    Aralaya
  • NicolaNicola Administrator Posts: 774 Achaean staff

    I think it's fairly clear that these aren't actually questions about the Celani and Garden process, so I'll just say that if you have any concerns with an administrative ruling please email Senior Administrator Lathis at [email protected] and she'll assist. She handles all issue ruling appeals.
  • AgzohmqueksAgzohmqueks Member Posts: 15 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Nicola said:

    I think it's fairly clear that these aren't actually questions about the Celani and Garden process, so I'll just say that if you have any concerns with an administrative ruling please email Senior Administrator Lathis at [email protected] and she'll assist. She handles all issue ruling appeals.
    I fail to see how you would not take them as genuine questions, @Nicola. I am clearly very interested in being a Celani, and this is a genuine concern of mine. What's with the assumptions all the time?


    (Party): You say, "Since we are discussing it OOC, I'll let you know that I'm from Australia."
    (Party): Mariya says, "That does explain a number of things."
  • AgzohmqueksAgzohmqueks Member Posts: 15 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    @Nicola just to reiterate my questions are *exactly* about the Garden and Celani processes. Not just one issue that pertains to me or a character of mine. I'm genuinely interested in applying, and am interested in whether Celani are involved with issue resolution, because it is an area of Achaea that nearly every player agrees could do with improvement. Thank you for the suggestion to email Lanthis, but can you see how my concerns about personal bias and misinformation come into play even here? You've already made a sweeping assumption and dismissed everything I asked based on personal bias.

    So would you dismiss someone with an issue history as ineligible or would you talk with them on a video interview to try to nut it out?

    It's so rude to just dismiss someone's questions based on assumptions like that.


    (Party): You say, "Since we are discussing it OOC, I'll let you know that I'm from Australia."
    (Party): Mariya says, "That does explain a number of things."
  • NicolaNicola Administrator Posts: 774 Achaean staff
    @Agzohmqueks

    We consider a player's entire play history when looking at an application, this goes across all characters past and present.

    We do not dig back into issue rulings to find out if they were ruled incorrectly, if a player believes that an issue has been handled improperly, then they can contact our Senior Administrator to appeal the decision and have it re-examined. The results of these appeals are also recorded, so would be part of considering a player's history in Achaea.

    That you mention one of your own recent issue resolutions, that you also brought up in the IDEAs system as an example does suggest that this is more loaded than Celani interest, I apologise if I assumed incorrectly!

    I will not expose the particulars behind the issues handling process here, this is necessary to protect those who do dedicate an extraordinary amount of their time to this deeply unfulfilling task. I can say, however, that trainees never have a hand in deciding issues that involve two parties (PK related, or harassment/complaint related.) but those who do handle these are occasionally fallible, and so we have Lathis who can re-examine with fresh eyes if an appeal is ever made.

  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 434 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Are successful applicants usually people who you were expecting to apply, or is it more likely to surprise you?
  • NicolaNicola Administrator Posts: 774 Achaean staff
    Accipiter said:
    Are successful applicants usually people who you were expecting to apply, or is it more likely to surprise you?
    It's strange, but I don't think those we expect to apply succeed more than those who give it a shot out of the blue. Plenty of the people we expect to apply don't make it, and we love to be surprised by applicants who we've not really considered before.
    Accipiter
  • AgzohmqueksAgzohmqueks Member Posts: 15 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Nicola said:
    @Agzohmqueks

    We consider a player's entire play history when looking at an application, this goes across all characters past and present.

    We do not dig back into issue rulings to find out if they were ruled incorrectly, if a player believes that an issue has been handled improperly, then they can contact our Senior Administrator to appeal the decision and have it re-examined. The results of these appeals are also recorded, so would be part of considering a player's history in Achaea.

    That you mention one of your own recent issue resolutions, that you also brought up in the IDEAs system as an example does suggest that this is more loaded than Celani interest, I apologise if I assumed incorrectly!

    I will not expose the particulars behind the issues handling process here, this is necessary to protect those who do dedicate an extraordinary amount of their time to this deeply unfulfilling task. I can say, however, that trainees never have a hand in deciding issues that involve two parties (PK related, or harassment/complaint related.) but those who do handle these are occasionally fallible, and so we have Lathis who can re-examine with fresh eyes if an appeal is ever made.

    Thanks for the response. That does answer my questions, at least the ones that you are able to answer without giving away sensitive information.

    Just as a quick side-note to help maybe explain my behaviour with things like posting loaded ideas: nowhere is it mentioned or explained that there is this process of seeking an appeal to an issue. It says very clearly in a number of ways in every help file that "Our decision is final". Can you understand that this could breed animosity if a player feels they've been harassed by someone, and they ask for help from admin, and then are accused of lying with no seeming resolution. It seems really police-state-y if you don't make it known that issues can be appealed like this. I've never heard of it before. Although I do get why you might not want to make it publicly known.


    (Party): You say, "Since we are discussing it OOC, I'll let you know that I'm from Australia."
    (Party): Mariya says, "That does explain a number of things."
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2018
    I'm not saying this to be mean, but rather to give you an outsider perspective:

    1) HELP 11.6.1 Divine and Administrative Punishments mentions appeals. Most people I know are aware of the possibility.
    Administrative Appeal
    ---------------------
    Appeal of any of these administrative penalties should be sent via email to
    [email protected]
    2) This isn't likely to be helping your cause given it's only tangentially related to the thread topic as is. Calling a text game a police state is worrying too much about something ultimately inconsequential. I can tell you with certainty that people that have lost at least one issue have been made celani in the past, fixating on that isn't going to help you in either the short or long term. I say this as someone that's gotten issued a lot more than average!

    CaelanAgzohmqueks
  • AgzohmqueksAgzohmqueks Member Posts: 15 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Kiet said:
    I'm not saying this to be mean, but rather to give you an outsider perspective:

    1) HELP 11.6.1 Divine and Administrative Punishments mentions appeals. Most people I know are aware of the possibility.
    Administrative Appeal
    ---------------------
    Appeal of any of these administrative penalties should be sent via email to
    [email protected]
    2) This isn't likely to be helping your cause given it's only tangentially related to the thread topic as is. Calling a text game a police state is worrying too much about something ultimately inconsequential. I can tell you with certainty that people that have lost at least one issue have been made celani in the past, fixating on that isn't going to help you in either the short or long term. I say this as someone that's gotten issued a lot more than average!

    I appreciate what you're saying, although I would like to point out that help file is talking about appealing punishments in particular, and doesn't mention issues actually being overturned. I knew that  I could contact [email protected] if I was ever shrubbed, for example, but would not have known there was any avenue for simply having a ruling of an issue overturned by contacting Lanthis directly as Nicola just said. I honestly wasn't trying to derail this thread, so apologies. I just want to say thanks Kiet, it's helpful to know that people have been promoted who have issues on file that were decided in my favour. This is the main thing I wanted to know, as my original set of questions is clearly asking.

    And lastly, I know it's not really helping my case, but I also didn't call it a police-state. I said if there was no avenue of appeal it would be "Police-state-y". And if there is any social group, even a game, where the administrators or those in control are the judge, jury and executor (as they are here), and there is also not even an appeal process, then that group would be "Police-state-y", as in resembling the imbalance of power that happens in a Police state. It is inconsequential in the long term, yes, because it is a game, and there are much more important things going on. I will let it go.


    (Party): You say, "Since we are discussing it OOC, I'll let you know that I'm from Australia."
    (Party): Mariya says, "That does explain a number of things."
  • CooperCooper IowaMember Posts: 5,075 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Just stop. You are not helping yourself at all. 

    Mexis
This discussion has been closed.