Lay Membership

Either I'm missing something, or there's really no point at the moment to becoming a lay member in a Divine Order. I originally understood the intention of lay membership to be a replacement for pre-order clans, but there's no lay members' channel, newsboard, help files (though OHELPs could be used of course with the new HELP permissions), so it just falls flat.

Could we therefore please add a channel for lay members, as well as a newsboard, similar to those created for novices in Houses?


  • KyrraKyrra Australia
    I thought lay members were like trials for the Order and they can be kicked out if they aren't suitable?

    Like.. here, let's see how Bob fits in because he's done all the tasks and requirements but we're not totally sure we really want him because he wears fishy cologne.
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

  • Right, like pre-orders. Exept, what's the point if you need a clan to facilitate communication between the Order and its lay members?

  • KyrraKyrra Australia
    I'm not sure how your pre-order clans work, but the one we had for Selene's order incorporated both those that wanted access to the Order, as well as those that merely wanted to learn about the realms without wanting to be in the Order itself. It's a place to learn where any questions and discussions could involve everyone.
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

  • But it's still, ultimately, the only point of communication between the Order and its lay members.

    I just think having a lay member channel (OLT) would help facilitate a closeness between the Order proper and its lay members, which is what it seems to have been designed for. Having to buy a clan and then induct both the lay and Order members into it seems like a waste when the Order itself could be sufficient if lay membership existed as more than just an afterthought.

    If we had a seperate pre-order channel and newsboard, as proposed, that lay members got access to (which is what the current pre-order clan gives us), we could save the crossover of inducting both sets of people, Order members and lay members, into two separate organisations, as well as eliminating the separation between the Order and lay members.

  • Not opposed to the idea in general but I think it largely depends on the Order and how they use lay membership. Babel has a clan and a lay membership, with the lay membership being more exclusive than the clan membership. I suspect other Orders might work similarly, using lay membership as more than just a marker of "pre-Order." 
  • That's true, but there isn't really any difference mechanically, even for us, between a lay membership and being appointed to a certain clan rank in a pre-order clan (unless perms are set somewhere based on whether or not you're a lay member, but I have no idea if that's even possible). We incorporate it into RP, but we'd probably do the same even if lay membership weren't an option.
    Saeva said:
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    Xenomorph said:
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  • @Mathonwy there is one key difference in that you can belong to multiple pre-Orders but only one lay membership. It's a way of marking someone as being loyal to one particular Divine.

    For Valnurana we don't use lay membership at all (but probably should in the way @Orklanishkal describes for Babel). I'm not sure if we'd actually use lay member channels or news boards though. We'd probably not get rid of the clan as there are people in there who are there as scholars of multiple Divine.

    I'd support making the pre-Order clans slot-free and gifting them to the two new Orders (seeing as Shallam presumably had four or more clans deleted when the Te'serra left).

    I'd also be interested to hear other suggestions to give lay membership a bit more impact on the game mechanics - @Silas is quite right that they are far too inconsequential as they are now.
  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USA
    I was actually recently reminded that I was a lay member of an order, and had been since lay membership was introduced. I had forgotten because, as far as I can tell, it served no purpose.

    Like Silas, I thought lay membership would get rid of the pre-order clans, which feel like a jury-rigged way to handle order induction. Making lay membership into an HNT-style community would make a lot more sense to me.
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
  • Why not keep the clan for those interested but not willing to commit yet, scholars, and so on: the public face of the Order. The lay membership can be the 'trial' level with OLT access and so on, where you are still at the trying-to-prove-yourself stage but with some sort of actual investment?
  • I support the creation of an HNT-style channel for Orders that laymembers can use.  Also make laymembers appear in OWHO with asterisks or other symbols attached to show they aren't full members. 
  • I always wondered why they added lay membership. It was one of those things we often forgot to do in Babel's Order, and forgot to remove when they became actual Order members (they may have fixed that though).

    Completely agree that it should come with a channel and a newsboard.

  • AktillumAktillum Philippines
    This is a grand idea.

  • Your divine can set permissions to lay membership (I have no idea what these actually include, I just know Shaitan set us up with a couple things), so could be something worth discussing.

    I agree that it having its own channel at the least is good.
  • Incidentally, I would also not be against an OTS channel for Order leadership to discuss higher level Order matters, though this is more of a convenience request than anything with the existence of parties.

  • I like lay membership having its own channel.

    Opposed to an ots style channel though, makes it feel too house-like. I prefer it that you're in the order, you have access to privelaged information. Anything truly confidential goes through word of mouth (our order shacks up in the caverns, for instance). I like it that way personally, and have a sneaking suspicion an ots style channel would  end in the general  order channel barely being used.

  • That's a fair comment, actually. Just OLT then, please and thank you, Cardan.

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