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A Brand New Ashtan

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  • AyamiAyami Member Posts: 79 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    There's also the issue that a lot of people confusing being just unpleasant and socially incompetent with being 'bitchy-chic.' Lovable bitchy characters are never socially incompetent, they manage to be charming despite being arrogant or vain.
    UlaBluef
  • TaelTael Member Posts: 1,197 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited September 2015
    I think there's certainly room for characters that aren't lovable.

    Not every bitchy character needs to be charming.

    Some characters can just be legitimately unpleasant or incompetent. I can think of a few people who have done that really well over the years too.

    The real problem I think is when people play unpleasant or socially incompetent characters without considering OOCly that they're doing so. If you want to play an unlikeable character, you need to keep in the back of your head that the game still has to be fun for people. And there are definitely players who are bitchy and mean and then try to cover for themselves when called out by suggesting they're just roleplaying a mean character, which is not okay.

    There's nothing wrong with playing Umbridge, so long as you remember that everyone is supposed to hate Umbridge. Part of that means being OOCly graceful in defeat - you're electing to play a character that exists in large part to provide catharsis when overcome.
    UlaBreanCeliana
  • VansittartVansittart Member Posts: 232 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Lorielan said:
    It might be worth noting that Ashtan as the Seat of Chaos in concert with the Chaos Lords has a very different, interim goal to Babel's stance via Nihilism. While neither contradict or oppose, Ashtan is not officially the Seat of Nihilism but an outpost of the Chaos Court, allied with and pushing those views/aims.

    /knowledge, yo.

    That's a really interesting point - I've never really gotten into the weeds of Chaos as a philosophy but it sounds like there's interesting scope there for complexifying the position - particularly if Babel comes back, and finds Dameron as Overseer.  Is Dameron going to take orders from Babel?  I have no idea, but it's fun to think about.

    Also, fyi, applauding your work but it's going to take a while before "Knowledge, yo" beats out "No" as your slogan.
    UlaMathonwyJhaeli
  • UlaUla Member Posts: 71 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    there are definitely constructive and well played characters who are socially mean or outright inept. jinsun, this time i do mean you lol. i think the problem lies in the difference between roleplaying it, and just putting on a mean persona while you play, and justifying it with 'my character is rude'. maybe both can be done, there is some evidence for that i think.  its not just about assuming a role, its also about playing. and ive always thought of play as constructive when done with others. you aren't playing if you shoot down other people, or go out of your way to be rude simply because thats the role you've chosen
    image
  • AyamiAyami Member Posts: 79 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Tael said:
    I think there's certainly room for characters that aren't lovable.

    Not every bitchy character needs to be charming.

    Some characters can just be legitimately unpleasant or incompetent. I can think of a few people who have done that really well over the years too.

    The real problem I think is when people play unpleasant or socially incompetent characters without considering OOCly that they're doing so. If you want to play an unlikeable character, you need to keep in the back of your head that the game still has to be fun for people. And there are definitely players who are bitchy and mean and then try to cover for themselves when called out by suggesting they're just roleplaying a mean character, which is not okay.

    There's nothing wrong with playing Umbridge, so long as you remember that everyone is supposed to hate Umbridge. Part of that means being OOCly graceful in defeat - you're electing to play a character that exists in large part to provide catharsis when overcome.
    That's true. But well-done characters we often like despite ourselves. Umbridge is a bad example because she was a flat character, but Snape for instance was a very bad person and yet had people drawn to his characterization even before his past was revealed. Actually, maybe Umbridge is a good example: she's supposed to be bad, yes, but she's also completely two dimensional and poorly written in general (which is partly because she has so little screen-time so to speak).


    People like well-written villains no matter how bad you make them from my experience. The problem is a lot of people are under the impression they're playing a good villain, when they're not.
    UlaShirszaeBrean
  • DanithDanith Member Posts: 26 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Ohhhh, so I'm the antagonistic dick.
    Mathonwy
  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,756 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Danith said:
    Ohhhh, so I'm the antagonistic dick.
    We missed you, bb.

    Danith
  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Danith said:
    Ohhhh, so I'm the antagonistic dick.
    No no no, I'm the antagonistic dick.
    Bluef
  • JinsunJinsun TN, USAMember Posts: 2,908 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Achimrst said:
    Danith said:
    Ohhhh, so I'm the antagonistic dick.
    No no no, I'm the antagonistic dick.
    Lol are you guys really going to try and steal my dick-thunder?
    image
    Danith
  • DanithDanith Member Posts: 26 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Jinsun said:
    Achimrst said:
    Danith said:
    Ohhhh, so I'm the antagonistic dick.
    No no no, I'm the antagonistic dick.
    Lol are you guys really going to try and steal my dick-thunder?
    Mmm, dick-thunder. Stop it, you're making me blush.
  • MathonwyMathonwy Member Posts: 906 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sorry, but I think @Danith wins this hands-down.

    After all, he was a part of Rasslefest (cc @Batista, @Tagg).
    Saeva said:
    If Mathonwy is 2006 I wish 2007 had never come.
    Xenomorph said:
    heh. Mathowned.
    Message #12872 Sent by Jurixe
    4/16/0:41
    MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF.
    TreyBatista
  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jinsun said:
    Achimrst said:
    Danith said:
    Ohhhh, so I'm the antagonistic dick.
    No no no, I'm the antagonistic dick.
    Lol are you guys really going to try and steal my dick-thunder?
    Don't make me get banned again @Jinsun ;
    Praxides
  • MorroMorro Member Posts: 93 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Umbridge is a pretty great example just because everyone loves to hate on her. Of course, to play or even play alongside a character like that, you have to remember that people hate Umbridge, not the lady who plays her. It takes a lot of maturity on both sides.

    On the topic of Ashtan and Chaos, though, it's pretty important not to dilute the ethos too much just for the sake of being accommodating. A variety of ideas and methods is necessary for keeping things interesting and moving, but they all have to agree on just what Chaos is and does. It would be nice if everyone could stay where they were, but to let everyone sit around and do their own thing just for the sake of being comfortable puts us right back to where we were before the change. Not to mention it cuts out a lot of the conflict that makes playing interesting. If no one is going to change, then I'd like to have my House, denizens, and the Eschaton back, please.
    JhaeliBluef
  • JinsunJinsun TN, USAMember Posts: 2,908 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Morro said:
    Umbridge is a pretty great example just because everyone loves to hate on her. Of course, to play or even play alongside a character like that, you have to remember that people hate Umbridge, not the lady who plays her. It takes a lot of maturity on both sides.

    On the topic of Ashtan and Chaos, though, it's pretty important not to dilute the ethos too much just for the sake of being accommodating. A variety of ideas and methods is necessary for keeping things interesting and moving, but they all have to agree on just what Chaos is and does. It would be nice if everyone could stay where they were, but to let everyone sit around and do their own thing just for the sake of being comfortable puts us right back to where we were before the change. Not to mention it cuts out a lot of the conflict that makes playing interesting. If no one is going to change, then I'd like to have my House, denizens, and the Eschaton back, please.
    I think when playing an Umbridge character you have to realize that the amount of pure Umbridge you pour in is generally how people will perceive you as an RPer. Most people generally will grin and bear harsh or cold roleplay as "that's their character" and if it's done right, it won't be a problem. Some Characters that were fantastic at it were @Lianca and @Taraus are fantastic at it. They both just know when to give in. There's a point where you have to throw the other person a bone. If, not, they're justified in writing you off. It's the reason when @Flair asked me to kill someone or planned an event he'd specify "ok don't drive them into the ground, we want them to have fun, too." It's just remembering that it is a game. It's lik this, Delores, may she rot in hell, was a valuable character because the annoyance you felt at her was a good distraction and had a conclusion, your were thrown a bone when they dragged that rotten bitch off. If as a character, you just continue and persist without relenting, others will want the same to happen, because they're humans and they need a break, that balance is important.

    As to Ashtan and Chaos, I do feel like ideas like @Ula's are far to contrarian to an established story and dichotomy to be given heavy credence. I also feel that a lot of the Occultists thoughts on ritual and Chaos had gotten very one way: "fuck with the Rays, tweak the aura, or cut someone up." It really needs an injection of imagination, and I hope integration brings that!
    image
    UlaBluef
  • KalamKalam Member Posts: 9 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    In regards to the New Ashtan, are there any Magi left? I came back after a bit of inactivity and (still being somewhat a novice) have had a hard time finding other Magi to interact with or learn from since the Warlocks was dismantled (destroyed?). Every time I'm on and check CityWho, I'm the only Magi. Is the class dying out?
  • AegothAegoth Member Posts: 2,732 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Come to Mhaldor. It's magi central
    JhaeliZuko
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2015
    Small amounts of Magi ~= small amounts of people to learn from. Plenty in the city know the class, and how it works (after Artificing changes, as well). Just ask.

    edit: Unless you meant to learn the skills.. Not how they work. In which case, wait for the houses to come, should be in the next day or two.

  • JinsunJinsun TN, USAMember Posts: 2,908 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Also I'll probably consider magi for multiclass. I know most of the class but I'll still have to learn some. Maybe we can learn together!
    image
  • SobriquetSobriquet Member Posts: 2,331 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You know, we'd not be having this thread if they had kept guilds.

    B)
    image
    LothienTael
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Morro said:
    Umbridge is a pretty great example just because everyone loves to hate on her. Of course, to play or even play alongside a character like that, you have to remember that people hate Umbridge, not the lady who plays her. It takes a lot of maturity on both sides.

    On the topic of Ashtan and Chaos, though, it's pretty important not to dilute the ethos too much just for the sake of being accommodating. A variety of ideas and methods is necessary for keeping things interesting and moving, but they all have to agree on just what Chaos is and does. It would be nice if everyone could stay where they were, but to let everyone sit around and do their own thing just for the sake of being comfortable puts us right back to where we were before the change. Not to mention it cuts out a lot of the conflict that makes playing interesting. If no one is going to change, then I'd like to have my House, denizens, and the Eschaton back, please.


    Well said - all of it.

    Ashtan has had a real advantage in the Renaissance process. They've been able to see what every other city went through and learned from their mistakes along the way. It's great to see the city leaders and players who founded these Houses using that knowledge to make something interesting happen. Other than Targossass, I think Ashtan will be the most changed out of all the cities and that's a good thing, if you ask me. The other cities that went through the Ren are in some cases exactly the same in terms of their focus, player make-up, etc. Booooring.

    Ula
  • LothienLothien Montréal, QuébecMember Posts: 256 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Bluef said:

     The other cities that went through the Ren are in some cases exactly the same in terms of their focus, player make-up, etc. Booooring.

    Have a specific tree-village in mind? :blush: I think it'll eventually get better, though.
  • KalamKalam Member Posts: 9 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Cynlael said:
    Small amounts of Magi ~= small amounts of people to learn from. Plenty in the city know the class, and how it works (after Artificing changes, as well). Just ask.

    edit: Unless you meant to learn the skills.. Not how they work. In which case, wait for the houses to come, should be in the next day or two.
    Oh, ok. I'll try asking around. My (albeit brief) encounters had been primarily with the Warlock's House and it's members, but I'll try to ask around. Thank you.

    @Jinsun, perhaps we can! I don't ever plan on changing class because there's so much with the Magi class and the potential it has in the RP environment. Just let me know!
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 2,945 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If any org actually went 'full chaos', then it wouldnt exist.


    #BetterLateThanNever
  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoMember Posts: 1,906 @ - Epic Achaean
    Asmodron said:
    If any org actually went 'full chaos', then it wouldnt exist.


    #BetterLateThanNever
    Necromancy is over in mhaldor...



    MorthifBatista
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