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NEW Jester ability: Mischief

DochithaDochitha Member Posts: 1,391 @ - Epic Achaean
What do you think about this:
Mischief (Pranks)                                  Known: -
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Syntax: MISCHIEF ON
            MISCHIEF OFF
            RELAX MISCHIEF
Works on/against: Self
Cooldown: 0.5s EQUILIBRIUM

Details:
You are such a master in Pranks that you can intentionally mischief thus ignoring selfishness
while giving away bombs or throwing juggled weapons.
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Will allow Jesters to enter fights with selfishness up.
KasyaShirszae

Comments

  • TaelTael Member Posts: 1,197 @ - Epic Achaean
    I like the idea, but maybe just make it a passive effect?

    Or, hell, just make bombs and juggled weapons inherently not affected by selfishness? It's sort of silly that they are.
    PraxidesSuladanKasya
  • SobriquetSobriquet Member Posts: 2,272 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I quite like the idea of having to balance keeping up a defence with having the ability to give things away. Not sure I've ever gone into a fight with selfishness up and lost anything, especially since some of the changes to force
    image
  • KhelKhel Member Posts: 215 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Mickey/itchpowder work through selfishness. Throwing does if stuff is juggled, as well. You can't drop/throw/give bombs with selfishness up, and I think balloonhandoff might not work either, but I'd need to test. I planned to list off some QOL changes I'd love for jester, just haven't had the time to write up anything yet.
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 4,844 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Khel said:
    Mickey/itchpowder work through selfishness. Throwing does if stuff is juggled, as well. You can't drop/throw/give bombs with selfishness up, and I think balloonhandoff might not work either, but I'd need to test. I planned to list off some QOL changes I'd love for jester, just haven't had the time to write up anything yet.
    Good enough then, really. Don't see the need to make a change specifically for bombs or balloon.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • KhelKhel Member Posts: 215 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Atalkez said:
    Khel said:
    Mickey/itchpowder work through selfishness. Throwing does if stuff is juggled, as well. You can't drop/throw/give bombs with selfishness up, and I think balloonhandoff might not work either, but I'd need to test. I planned to list off some QOL changes I'd love for jester, just haven't had the time to write up anything yet.
    Good enough then, really. Don't see the need to make a change specifically for bombs or balloon.
    It's workable, but jester is kind of a pain in a few ways. My list of current gripes:
    1. Can't throw bombs through selfishness, making an awkward setup.
    2. Same for suicidemice, you can't send them from your inventory so you have to go through drop selfishness->drop rat->order, instead of just sending it.
    3. Props is just...awful. Mickeys/itchpowder cost 20 gold and have a like 1-2s summon time, you can only wish for one at a time, and they decay in a RL day. This means your goldsink per fight is beyond everything other than Runewarden (with inks being so expensive). I'd settle for being able to WISH FOR 10 MICKEY, or just have wish be balanceless even if the gold cost stays so you can g 20 gold from pack/wish for mickey/slip atalkez mickey on the fly.
    4. Tarot (though occultists share my pain) - 20 gold per card, having to ink each card is a mind-numbing time investment. Forging got sped way up, and outside of fishing I can't think of anything that requires nearly so much time spent practically idle. A neat workaround was having a nearly trans skill to outd blank as <card> so you just kept a stack of blanks, but I understand that devalues the quill of inscribing; perhaps let us inscribe in up to batches of 10, with quill doubling it and decreasing time?
    5. A class that relies on throwing stuff needs a way to have their thrown weapons come back, if that's the core of their offense. In my perfect world, juggling throws would compel the other person to toss it back (so you throw it and it goes from juggled to inventory). 'Khel cocks back his arm and throws a dagger at you. You get paralysis. Inspired by Khel's nimbleness, you are unable to resist the compulsion to toss the weapon right back' or whatever.
    6. Badjoke is really powerful, but I'd kind of like a targeted version so I don't get chain-slapped by 18 people. My ego is fragile.
    7. In-line envenoming for throwing if that's not already there.
    8. I'm not sure if it's a bug one way or the other, but you can (assuming shield in the left hand) unwield right/juggle 3 things/re-wield right and have stuff wielded in both hands and juggle things, but you can't do wield right/juggle.
    /end thread hijacking
    DochithaPraxidesEthoas
  • SobriquetSobriquet Member Posts: 2,272 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    1 - Keep selfishness down. Since the changes to theft this isn't as important, especially during combat. Grip stops force drops of puppets, I think?
    2 - See point 1
    3 - I don't think the upkeep for Jesters is that bad apart from the increased cost of comms for puppets and bombs with the recent changes. It would be nice to be able to wish for more than one mickey at a time though, but cost wise? If you are short of 200gp you just go and kill one mhun. I'd rather have the mickeys / powder have increased decay times to be honest as it's all part of the "being prepared" for combat side.
    4 - Again, don't see much of an issue with the inscribing given there are numerous scripts out there to inscribe then med / sip mana and keep going. The quill is standard fayre artifact for decreasing this time. Of course there is the question about doing it AFK as it's something you could profit from.
    5 - Do Jesters actually -rely- on throwing stuff? Sure, bombs and juggling are a large part of what we do, but I'd not go so far as to say we rely on it.*
    6 - Badjoke being targetable would be nice

    *I'll caveat this by saying that it's been a while since I actively fought and never used daggers when I was Mark. I was also not a "top tier" fighter either.
    image
  • KhelKhel Member Posts: 215 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Sobriquet said:
    1 - Keep selfishness down. Since the changes to theft this isn't as important, especially during combat. Grip stops force drops of puppets, I think?
    2 - See point 1
    3 - I don't think the upkeep for Jesters is that bad apart from the increased cost of comms for puppets and bombs with the recent changes. It would be nice to be able to wish for more than one mickey at a time though, but cost wise? If you are short of 200gp you just go and kill one mhun. I'd rather have the mickeys / powder have increased decay times to be honest as it's all part of the "being prepared" for combat side.
    4 - Again, don't see much of an issue with the inscribing given there are numerous scripts out there to inscribe then med / sip mana and keep going. The quill is standard fayre artifact for decreasing this time. Of course there is the question about doing it AFK as it's something you could profit from.
    5 - Do Jesters actually -rely- on throwing stuff? Sure, bombs and juggling are a large part of what we do, but I'd not go so far as to say we rely on it.*
    6 - Badjoke being targetable would be nice

    *I'll caveat this by saying that it's been a while since I actively fought and never used daggers when I was Mark. I was also not a "top tier" fighter either.
    1/2: Grip also stops throwing bombs - it's a little more workable than selfishness, but still just one of the small headaches that adds to my list.
    3: Upkeep isn't awful, no - but it's the combination of upkeep/constant decay/only able to wish for one at a time. Jester seems to be lots of tiny little headaches rather than anything game-breaking; it's awkward.
    4: Inscribing is just a boring timesink, I have no problem auto-inscribing and kicking Netflix on with my other monitor, but that seems kind of like a bad design, you know? If your answer is 'just go do something else while your character works on x', it's probably not a good mechanic.
    5: So far as I can tell, yeah. Aeonlock, regular lock, riftlock, etc. all require juggling to throw knives to deliver the venoms, a puppetry-only offense is like shamans killing with vodun only. Sure you CAN do it, but it's more trick-based than anything reliable. Throwing handaxes is supposedly the 'core' nowadays, from the logs I've been able to track down.

    @Sobriquet in case it doesn't tag him when I quote.
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