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Equilibrium for Honours

RispokRispok Member Posts: 711 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
edited March 2015 in North of Thera
Seems like this is going to be a hot-button issue for a while, unless Tecton immediately redacts. If you're a coder or divine, feel free to enlighten the unwashed masses.

Equilibrium for Honours 134 votes

I want the old way
68%
AchillesNemutaurCooperTrillianaAntidasVadimusesMannimarSkyeVeldrinJakiroMelodieRispokAdetAitoxTharvisAodfionnAliathKryptonDraqoomKazuya 92 votes
I like the eq loss
14%
IocunEllodinTreyMishgulFendoAktillumAlstonHasarTaelTeshaMeradorLorielanJakaranaKitiaraTaarkosDelronaKaijinMamiRekhyr 19 votes
No strong opinion
17%
EldJonathinJarrodRangorOceanaUtianimaHerenicusYiwenSybillaKyriellaKafzielAldairCaladbolgComitisSeftinAchimrstSanoJukilianKlendathuTibitha 23 votes
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Comments

  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,178 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    No strong opinion
    My guess is that it's a counter for people using Svo / ndb where their system is spamming honours when there's a new person on qw.

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,270 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I thought maybe it's got to do with the introduction of server side everything. I hell of a lot more stuff is going to be injected/stored (even if for a few seconds) on the server
  • SanekSanek Member Posts: 40 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited March 2015
    I want the old way
    I have no idea of the load of the honours speed on the game's performance, but how it was without eq cost at the moment seems to have no impact. Maybe speeding it up with the new system would have a negative impact, and should not happen, that is not something I can judge.

    This equilibrium cost really comes over as @Tecton slapping down @Vadimuses for informing him about something, and from the info in this thread, it seems like it could've been handled a lot better.

    Moral of the story: Next time, ninja change, don't inform? Don't think that is the attitude that is desired.
  • RangorRangor Member Posts: 3,220 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    No strong opinion
    I wasn't using auto honors for a while, and you'll quickly realize that you will manually honors the people you need to honors and leave everyone else grey. It's not a biggie.
    image
    MamiHyperlith
  • RispokRispok Member Posts: 711 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I want the old way
    As a point of interest, I just checked to see how long it would take for me to NDB UPDATE, and it's just over 13 hours, considering I have slightly over 20,000 entries.
  • JonathinJonathin Grand Rapids, MIMember Posts: 3,323 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    No strong opinion
    I hardly use ndb anyways. It's more of an inconvenience for me than anything

    My site will remain up, but will not be maintained. The repository will continue to have scripts added to it if I decide to play another game. Maybe I'll see you around in Starmourn!
    Tutorials and scripts  The Repository

  • LorielanLorielan Moderator Posts: 224 Immortal
    I like the eq loss
    @Rispok, you do realise that before this change, that 20,000 entries would check within about 10 minutes? And you are just one player.
  • RuthRuth SingaporeMember Posts: 2,700 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Does repeated honors'ing lag the game or something?
    "Mummy, I'm hungry, but there's no one to eat! :C"

     

  • AvtoAvto Member Posts: 102 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I want the old way
    Well, there was a reason why people were using ndb checks, if you are removing that aspect due to performance issues, you could firstly set in basic serverside ndb type commands. Like color flagging different citizens, this is already in place (CTF), qwho check with list ordered per cities etc..

    ndb was in game for years, before vadi created mass ndb script, people were using other scripts (be it not as complex as vadi's).
    TrillianaAziik
  • MishgulMishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMember Posts: 5,319 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I like the eq loss
    i mean, the first question to ask is, can we verify if there is a serverside ndb in the works? I mean I have my own personal one, but it organises by non mhaldorian, shoot on sight and asked questions then seem to be pretty okay people which is simple to program and doesn't require honours, so this change doesn't really bother me, and I feel like it was done with some good for the game plan in mind.

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
    TibithaIocun
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Ruth said:
    Does repeated honors'ing lag the game or something?
    All commands 'lag' the game, as when one command is being processed, all others are held in a queue until that one is done (for the technical folks out there, we're a single-threaded application). Most of the time, there's more than enough processing time to make that essentially irrelevant, but when people spam the server with many commands in a short amount of time (sending 20,000 commands in a short time is the very definition of spamming the server) it causes lag hiccups. 
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Vadimuses said:

    If Achaea starts being massively even the tiniest bit faster for everyone then this change is warranted - but I really doubt it will be. All this has done is break existing functionality that makes Achaea nicer to play.

    FTFY! ;)

    Utianima
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,276 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I want the old way
    Evidently the best thing to do would be to supplement the functionality that ndb used to serve by allowing name highlighting to be done on the server side using config colours or whatever.
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Name highlighting on the server isn't going to happen for reasons already explained in detail in other threads. Viewer-relative colouring would be a huge performance impact of the type that gets very bad when a lot of people are in the same room.
  • AustereAustere TennesseeMember Posts: 2,245 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I want the old way
    Sarapis said:
    Name highlighting on the server isn't going to happen for reasons already explained in detail in other threads. Viewer-relative colouring would be a huge performance impact of the type that gets very bad when a lot of people are in the same room.
    Does this mean infamywho is out as well?  I swear,  poor Vadi has had the idea wrote down since ndb came out and he JUST released it. . Don't do us like that. .
  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,304 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Could you provide a QW sorted by city then? And a QW that lists soldiers for each city?
    image
    Elphaba
  • MeradorMerador Member Posts: 107
    I like the eq loss
    Sarapis said:
    Name highlighting on the server isn't going to happen for reasons already explained in detail in other threads. Viewer-relative colouring would be a huge performance impact of the type that gets very bad when a lot of people are in the same room.
    Is that still the case if colours aren't customisable? For example, capture the flags have consistent colours for cities that are the same for everyone. Would this sort of colouring where Mhaldorian players are always red still be an issue? 
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Jacen said:
    Could you provide a QW sorted by city then? And a QW that lists soldiers for each city?
    Maybe. 
  • TrillianaTrilliana Member Posts: 1,986 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I want the old way
    something akin to this?

      rogue     (15): Amranu, Artanis, Bemanigisc, Bluef, Ermot, Jarrod, Juree, Kadrim, Killian, Makaela, Pharue, Saramy, Shirszae, Suzzette and Taarkos
      Cyrene    (14): Adaele, Asmodan, Doina, Edena, Farran, Haeley, Halgar, Ilen, Keorin, Mazel, Morganbarl, Rashmi, Sanek and Shianne
      Mhaldor   (13): Carmain, Chiam, Crixos, Elazar, Etias, Jaybles, Kitiara, Kray, Locki, Multon, Natashia, Orzaansyn and Xinna
      Ashtan    (12): Alarke, Arralana, Baliuk, Foehn, Hexan, Hydrogen, Jonesey, Khaibit, Merador, Seraya, Vyn and Zadie
      Targossas (10): Anedhel, Azelhu, Daitya, Invictus, Kaiu, Kellonius, Lianice, Mel, Shunsui and Szareine
      Eleusis   (9): Aeceon, Ajo, Kriphi, Myna, Seftin, Slink, Sylarana, Synnendir and Zakhar
      Hashan    (3): Andregor, Rekhyr and Torrent


    meh


  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    edited March 2015

    Merador said:
    Sarapis said:
    Name highlighting on the server isn't going to happen for reasons already explained in detail in other threads. Viewer-relative colouring would be a huge performance impact of the type that gets very bad when a lot of people are in the same room.
    Is that still the case if colours aren't customisable? For example, capture the flags have consistent colours for cities that are the same for everyone. Would this sort of colouring where Mhaldorian players are always red still be an issue? 
    Well, they still have to be customisable in the sense of being on or off via a config option, which CTF isn't. It'd be the simplest version of viewer-relative coloring. In this case, it's more of a huge pain in the ass to implement than it would be a major performance issue. Since our name generation routines aren't viewer-relative, we'd need to go through the codebase and alter every single call to a name generation routine and, in some cases, minorly rewrite how entire routines work. I don't have the code in front of me, but I'm sure there are multiple tens of thousands of calls to them. In terms of reward vs. effort, that's not going to be a high priority.
  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,304 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Aerek said:
    I've honestly never liked the datamining tendencies that really started catching on few years ago. Parsing WHO for target locations still feels like cheating to me, (never understood why WHO needed to show room location with thirdeye in the first place) and instantly knowing the infamy/Mark status of everyone online so you can build a gank list always felt like something that couldn't be stopped, but didn't need to be encouraged.

    So yeah, if the game performance can be improved even slightly by removing the ability to effortlessly keep tabs on everyone online at all times, I'm not going to shed a tear.
    Its a very nice feature for raid leaders though. Being able to see how many people in a city are online can be very influential in your decision to raid a city, whether for the good or bad. Moreover, you can check their WHO list locations to see if they're all grouped up at a non-gatehouse/crossroads location, to see if maybe they have some event going on.
    image
  • BeanBean Member Posts: 1
    edited March 2015
    I want the old way
    Seems like a better solution would be either a balance specifically for honors, or a limit of up to 10 within 10 minutes with no cost or limit at all - both of which would completely address the performance concerns without negatively impacting other aspects of the game.

    It definitely shouldn't affect your characters actual balance - this just seems like overkill. If I want to to honors my opponent in a fight, I shouldn't have to completely stop fighting for any period of time.  It also breaks the in-game/OOC barrier as equilibrium is an in-character concept, and the honors interface is entirely OOC.  Same logic that was used for sending messages, IIRC.
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,161 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I want the old way
    I suspect having its own timer would not be big enough of a deterrent for people not to queue or spam it continuously

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

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