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Sentinel/Druid changes

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  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ruth said:
    These skills are sexy and I hope it means the extermination game becomes more interesting.
    You can't exterminate an un-imprinted room until you break the reclamation, it seems. So it requires two attempts, and presumably the sixth sense that we'll get will sense the first one. Exterminations might actually get harder to pull off.

    However, on the other hand, once a reclamation begins, you can't just go and grab spots way off on the other side of the continent, you'd have to build a path of vines to it. I know I'm starting mine with my grove.

    Crixos said:
    With almost magical swiftness, a snarling wolf leaps at you from out of nowhere, rakes its claws 
    across your face, and disappears into the surrounding forest.
    You howl in pain as thorny vines lash out at you from all sides.

    This is still happening, please fix.
    I don't think forest defences went away, did they? They're just changed so the new "High Warden of Nature" or whatever will have the power to invoke them. You're not enemied to Oakstone now, you're enemied to the Forests.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • CrixosCrixos Member Posts: 49 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Sarathai said:
    Ruth said:
    These skills are sexy and I hope it means the extermination game becomes more interesting.
    You can't exterminate an un-imprinted room until you break the reclamation, it seems. So it requires two attempts, and presumably the sixth sense that we'll get will sense the first one. Exterminations might actually get harder to pull off.

    However, on the other hand, once a reclamation begins, you can't just go and grab spots way off on the other side of the continent, you'd have to build a path of vines to it. I know I'm starting mine with my grove.

    Crixos said:
    With almost magical swiftness, a snarling wolf leaps at you from out of nowhere, rakes its claws 
    across your face, and disappears into the surrounding forest.
    You howl in pain as thorny vines lash out at you from all sides.

    This is still happening, please fix.
    I don't think forest defences went away, did they? They're just changed so the new "High Warden of Nature" or whatever will have the power to invoke them. You're not enemied to Oakstone now, you're enemied to the Forests.
    Oh, you're right.  Hooray for another few years of a flavorful but tiresome and unnecessary mechanic.  So do "the Forests" still represent / are represented by Eleusis, or will factions without exterminate be exempted from these passive forest vibes?
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yay... Demesnes from Lusternia / Infernos from MKO. Cause they're /such/ a good mechanic there.

    Synbios
  • RuthRuth SingaporeMember Posts: 2,700 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I wonder how long it'll take for Eleusis to start overgrowing vines in other cities and the rest of the world. Cities won't be able to remove them unless they have Necromancers! Wahahahha!!
    "Mummy, I'm hungry, but there's no one to eat! :C"

     

  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Crixos said:
    Oh, you're right.  Hooray for another few years of a flavorful but tiresome and unnecessary mechanic.  So do "the Forests" still represent / are represented by Eleusis, or will factions without exterminate be exempted from these passive forest vibes?
    As far as I understand it, forest defences still exist (check who you're enemied to, and it should be "the forests" or the like). Oakstone does not, and instead the High Warden of Nature (or whatever the name is) gets the ability. Like the Deacon of Celestia has excommunicate, and whatever the Necromancy one is.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • NaverreNaverre Member Posts: 304 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Ruth said:
    I wonder how long it'll take for Eleusis to start overgrowing vines in other cities and the rest of the world. Cities won't be able to remove them unless they have Necromancers! Wahahahha!!
    Unfortunately, there's still firelashes and holobombs.
    Achimrst
  • JukilianJukilian Member Posts: 1,579 @ - Epic Achaean
    I'll nuke Hashan with holocaust bombs before I see it overrun with vines. :angry: 

    /forumrp
    WeiAedinTharvis
  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jukilian said:
    I'll nuke Hashan with holocaust bombs before I see it overrun with vines. :angry: 

    /forumrp
    So the choice is either overrunning it with vines, or nuking it into oblivion?
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



    Syri
  • MasarykMasaryk Sangre PlainsMember Posts: 157 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited March 2015
    I foresee a lot of firelash items being sold in the near future?



    JukilianSyri
  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Oh.

    Oh.

    I subsumed another network to test.

    I was controlling (mine, all mine!) the majority of the Aureliana, all of Lake Vundamere, the Savannah around Tomacula village, the Urubamba, parts of the Pachacacha, and the Aerinewild (I'll be relinquishing it all soon and going back to a smaller network, since I accidentally subsumed another's grove in the process when she let me test Subsume). What this granted me:

    - As soon as somebody on my enemies list enters my network, I can be immediately informed of their presence and travel to them.
    - I can hear everything said by anybody within the borders of my network.
    - I can know whenever somebody is walking through my network. Like Forestwatch, except if my network extends beyond the forest, I know that too.
    - I can just turn on Lash and lash enemies repeatedly without even moving.
    - I can consume corpses, expanding outward from where they die (so basically, if there's a fight on the edge of my network, a death there should, I think, expand it to adjacent rooms if possible).
    - I can block any room I am standing in from being de-claimed.
    - Any location adjacent to my network I can instantaenously rejuvenate if it's been exterminated.
    - I am instantly aware of anybody tries to exterminate within my network.
    - As a last-ditch measure if there are a whole pile of enemies in my network, I can Wrath all of them with massive damage.
    - I can reclaim a bashing zone and have Refresh continually heal me. (For example, expand further, down into Azdun.)
    - I can activate Sleep, and put everybody in my network to sleep. Friends and enemies alike. This could be a problem.

    So Subsume will take the network of an ally, leaving them with nothing. In the meantime, you gain their entire network. It does not revert when you die (that I've seen) or log out. Really, that should be modified. Can't we just let it work so that by allying you can share access to another's network? I'd rather not have Reclamation leave one person in control of vast swathes of land after snitching the network of another and unallying them.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



    PrytheSyri
  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2015
    Masaryk said:
    I foresee a lot of firelash items being sold in the near future?
    Tested with Yae and Myna. It takes five firelashes to de-claim a room. If the Druid who claimed it is standing in said room with Ward up, it can't be de-claimed at all until the Druid dies (no more Ward) or leaves. Which, given the defensive and offensive bonuses, could be frustrating.

    It's a very interesting ability.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarathai said:
    Jukilian said:
    I'll nuke Hashan with holocaust bombs before I see it overrun with vines. :angry: 

    /forumrp
    So the choice is either overrunning it with vines, or nuking it into oblivion?
    There's also the new alchemist herbicide.
  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jukilian said:
    I'll nuke Hashan with holocaust bombs before I see it overrun with vines. :angry: 

    /forumrp
    I'm not against this plan.
  • RidlynRidlyn Member Posts: 22 ✭✭ - Stalwart

    !----------------------------------------------------------!
    !---------RECOVERED BALANCE --- RECOVERED BALANCE ---------!
    !----------------------------------------------------------! 1.155s
    [System]: Running queued eqbal command: STAND|WIELD SPEAR SHIELD|IMPALE SAMANTHYA
    You draw your blade back and plunge it deep into the body of Samanthya impaling her to the hilt.
    4318h 3553m 99%e 100%w XX|EE M  
    You must regain balance first.
    4318h 3553m 99%e 100%w |EE M  
    You must regain balance first.
    4318h 3538m 99%e 100%w |EE M   (-15m, 0.4%)
    !----------------------------------------------------------!
    !---------RECOVERED BALANCE --- RECOVERED BALANCE ---------!
    !----------------------------------------------------------! 0.544s
    4318h 3538m 99%e 100%w XX|EE M  
    With a bestial howl you let the bloodlust take you, launching yourself upon your helpless prey. The 
    crunch and snap of bone and tendons is a backdrop for the agonised screams of Samanthya, as you tear 
    her limb from bloody limb.
    You have slain Samanthya.
    Defeated, Samanthya is cast out of the Arena.
    **********************************************************
    You have been victorious and leave the Arena in triumph!
    **********************************************************

    Holy crap I'm going to love these changes.


  • AthelasAthelas Cape Town South AfricaMember Posts: 325 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    A few observations:

    Pros:

    1. Reclamation goes a long way to even out the playing field when dealing with exterminations.
    2. It make a Druid a bit more viable in PvP.

    Cons:

    1. Without reflexes, the endurance and will power rings I bought are purely ornamental, very expensive, completely useless rings.

    2. Without reflexes, hunting has become a deadly occupation, in areas I used to consider a cake-walk, making exp gain even more tedious than it used to be. <---- Am I missing something? Are we moving over to a quarterstaff bashing thing?
  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2015
    Athelas said:
    A few observations:

    Pros:

    1. Reclamation goes a long way to even out the playing field when dealing with exterminations.
    2. It make a Druid a bit more viable in PvP.

    Cons:

    1. Without reflexes, the endurance and will power rings I bought are purely ornamental, very expensive, completely useless rings.

    2. Without reflexes, hunting has become a deadly occupation, in areas I used to consider a cake-walk, making exp gain even more tedious than it used to be. <---- Am I missing something? Are we moving over to a quarterstaff bashing thing?
    Just notes:

    1. Reclamation requires a degree of setup before the fight begins. It's three seconds EQ to set it up in a room, during which you can't cure. That's huge. Counterpoint, though, is that you could have a couple of Druids run around networking in a group situation, and then subsume both of their networks into your own to centralise control. Unfortunately, that means they won't have reclamation for themselves.

    2. Yeah, much more viable in PvP. Rom tested on me earlier, and the amount of passive damage Reclamation provides in addition to everything else is massive. Knocked me down to a point where Ignite-Incinerate became viable, and he did it really fast. I wasn't trying to slow offense or anything, but still impressive.

    3. A searing Maul against an opponent already on fire jacks the damage up by about 10%. Went from taking about 24% normally (level 2 knuckles) to 35% or so when I was on fire. That's without prefarar, sensitivity or the like.

    4. I won't be trading in my endurance ring or willpower amulet, but then, I find them useful in dragonform. Yes, though, you're right. They are of much lessened use now. Could probably still get a ring of endurance to have some effectiveness, or transed Fitness + artied Ox tattoo (since morphs still drain endurance), but they're not as necessary. Willpower might be even less useful.

    5. Masaryk tested Icewyrm/Wyvern Maul versus Staff Bash a bit. I'm not entirely sure what his exact numbers were, but with Nimble, Maul is 2.925 seconds balance and Staff is ~2.6 seconds. Staff damage was boosted a bit as well, so there's that, and while the regular quarterstaff is 44/160/200, a Splinter artifact is I think 130/160/200. Which should be much better. Regular staff will do less damage than Maul, but the increased speed and faster criticals should help. I might go testing them on a bashing run later, though honestly I bash almost exclusively in dragonform nowadays.

    6. When you're bashing, don't forget Reclamation. Put Vigour up from your staff and Reclaim a chunk of the area, then turn on health spores. That's an extra passive 10% health regeneration tick on top of the one from Vigour, and it stacks with all other forms of regeneration (I think). It doesn't measure up to the loss of the Concoctions sip bonus (I need to upgrade my sip ring now...), but it should help mitigate some damage.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • BlujixapugBlujixapug Member Posts: 1,833 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarathai said:

    Can't we just let it work so that by allying you can share access to another's network? I'd rather not have Reclamation leave one person in control of vast swathes of land after snitching the network of another and unallying them.
    Is this a good idea? I can understand wanting it, but limiting control to one person seems like a sensible tradeoff for having that power over such a potentially enormous area.

    Although, to think it through... If you assume a reclaimed zone would still have the same limit on passive effects (3 total/2 spore types), and anyone using Wrath would still nuke the whole thing, there aren't that many abilities left to be used. You can easily set up triggers to relay Windwhisper/Knowledge/Omniscience over a channel like PT. What else is left? Forestwalk, Constrict, and Embrace. If you have 2+ druids who are interested in coordinating, you only need one of them to use Constrict or Embrace, since the other can better combo that with other abilities. So the only major gain from sharing control would be multiple people able to use Forestwalk. Plus of course the intangible trophy value of being able to share the toy. shrug.emoji
    image
    Melodie
  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If you have 2+ druids who are interested in coordinating, you only need one of them to use Constrict or Embrace, since the other can better combo that with other abilities. So the only major gain from sharing control would be multiple people able to use Forestwalk.
    That was sort of what I thought at the time - Forestwalk was the biggest gain, which is kind of minimal considering that there's already Flow, Summon, Gate, and Track.

    Since a network will decay on its own if you log out for long enough, there's also the benefit that if you have enough Druids swapping control between each other (where Subsume takes an entire network and makes it yours), you could (in theory, I think) maintain Reclamation indefinitely until it was destroyed if you had enough willing participants.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • KuyKuy Member Posts: 1,497 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I hate the look of reclamation as it is now. Coming from Lusternia, it looks exactly like demesnes, but with none of the drawbacks. It should definitely have a room limit so that it's more tactical than "reclaim everything lol." It also should not take FIVE firelashes to remove it. Holding onto reclaimed territory needs to be a challenge, not a cakewalk.
    [2:41:24 AM] Kenway: I bet you smell like evergreen trees and you could wrestle boreal mammals but they'd rather just cuddle you
  • MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,871 Achaean staff

    I'm going to have to admit my ignorance about what demesnes are, unfortunately.

    I can safely say there are significant drawbacks to using them in group cenarios, though.

  • JukilianJukilian Member Posts: 1,579 @ - Epic Achaean
    Areas that the Mage archetype could 'imprint' (similar to the reclamation here). It would make the room have a certain appearance (such as flames licking around for Fire Mages or something). A Mage could then 'claim' rooms of the appropriate type for themself (claim fire rooms if you're a Fire Mage) and it would become your demesne. Then you could use abilities that are demesne-wide, etc.

    I've not played much on my Geomancer there in ages though, so not up to date with demesnes.
  • JarrodJarrod Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,060 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The main drawback of Reclamation IS that it's limited to one person at a time. To remove that limiter would probably make the skill grossly abused where there's constantly people working to expand this one huge network that everyone then uses. As is, the nature of the skill encourages smaller areas, which is a good thing.

    The larger your area is, the more likely your area hinders another Druid trying to get the full benefits of Reclamation. You take an area for bashing? The next Druid can't. What about the next area you want to bash? Now you're talking about expanding the network one room at a time to another area, or dropping the previous area to take the new one.

    Once PERCEIVE is changed to show who reclaimed a reclaimed room you're standing in (Mak said he would work on it later after I suggested it yesterday, might be in now or soon idk) there's additional risk to the Reclaimer. People used to 'farm cause' by hitting personal totems/traps/vibes they knew they were enemied to so they could jump someone. Now all they have to do is stand in a section of a reclaimed area and wait for the Druid to use it. If they try to fight at all with it, suddenly they've attacked a huge area of players, some of whom are going to be coming for revenge.

    Definitely does not need to be usable through allies (we just fixed that with groves, finally), the system will naturally limit itself once people start dying for holding too large an area.
    image
    Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."

  • MeradorMerador Member Posts: 107
    Survey should show it, did yesterday.
  • NizanaNizana Member Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited March 2015
    If I read all this stuff correctly, in Reclamation, only two skills have a target. Everything else hits everyone. Everyone. I am pretty sure that is a big enough drawback to letting them be lolsy. Plus, it gives them some conflict-ability, since it is pretty much Eleusis vs. the World, what with every single city in the game being Alchemist-aligned and Druids being, more or less, confined to Groves otherwise.

    Now they can be more offensive, and start prodding at cities like, "Hey! Hey! Hashan! Lookout, it's Mhaldor!" *Reclaim entrances to Hashan, snicker snicker*

    In any case, I 'want' you to claim the entirety of the world and start pumping out healing spores. I will bash for years if you forget to turn it off.

    @Jarrod ;Also, don't forget! Unblockable Subsume, unless I am mistaken by the text of it. Be careful of the Druid Traitors! One well-timed Subsume could ruin a lot of things!

    That having been said, maybe you have to accept a subsume.. I don't know. I can see a lot of 'turf warfare' coming about.

  • NaverreNaverre Member Posts: 304 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Nizana said:

    @Jarrod ;Also, don't forget! Unblockable Subsume, unless I am mistaken by the text of it. Be careful of the Druid Traitors! One well-timed Subsume could ruin a lot of things!

    That having been said, maybe you have to accept a subsume.. I don't know. I can see a lot of 'turf warfare' coming about.
    Subsume requires being a mutual ally. So, no traitor Druids stealing away reclaimed areas.
  • NizanaNizana Member Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    @Naverre Foiled.

  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,380 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Does that mean some Druid jerk is going to come along and take my grove? :(
    Achimrst
  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Naverre said:
    Nizana said:

    @Jarrod ;Also, don't forget! Unblockable Subsume, unless I am mistaken by the text of it. Be careful of the Druid Traitors! One well-timed Subsume could ruin a lot of things!

    That having been said, maybe you have to accept a subsume.. I don't know. I can see a lot of 'turf warfare' coming about.
    Subsume requires being a mutual ally. So, no traitor Druids stealing away reclaimed areas.
    Yes and no. You need to be mutually allied to Subsume, but nothing stops you from doing that, Subsuming, and then unallying the other person.

    Tahquil said:
    Does that mean some Druid jerk is going to come along and take my grove? :(
    Reclaim it? They could, yeah. It'd still be your grove, and you'd still have access to all your grove abilities in it, but the Druid could use their Reclamation abilities as well.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



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