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Yeah, I don't read a lot of Cult-specific hate going on, it's just assessing the balance of probability. Achaea is littered with the decaying remains of clans and high clans, alike, that thought they were cool enough to survive with zero city/House support. The Serpentlords are entirely welcome to prove us wrong, but they have some major hurdles to clear.In addition to the question of role, ideals, and practicality of the organization, I think folks are underestimating the challenge of maintaining membership. A high clan, even a great one, doesn't have the recruiting potential of a House, because it isn't advertised to newbies coming in; they have to find it on their own or members have to recruit them. This means that the Serpentlords are basically going to be working full-time just to keep new blood in the org, and because even the best High Clan doesn't have the "legitimacy" of a Garden-established House, people don't have the patience for House-level tasks/requirements for advancement. This leaves you in the difficult position of having to relax standards to keep people interested/involved, which comes at cost to your member quality and reputation, or establishing high RP standards and slowly atrophying because quality players generally want to be involved with the game's major factions. It's not a pretty picture, and while the possibility for success exists, the chance for failure is large.I don't say all this from a position of idle speculation. What the Serpentlords are doing now isn't really that different from
what the Order of Thurisaz is trying do, having devolved from the
Wardens' House to keep Knighthood alive. What I've outlined above are basically the challenges that we're currently facing, and we have the full support of a city and its Houses to prop us up. It's cool that the SL were permitted to strike out on their own, and I don't wish failure upon them, but they have their work cut out for them, to say the least.
I don't have a problem with the idea of nested orgs, but I think the idea of the current Houses persisting as a nested org is a bad one. Part of the purpose of the Renaissance is to transform the Houses into suborgs of the city, as opposed to the largely independent orgs they are now. Historically, a lot of people have been Black Lotus, who happen to live in Hashan, or Occultists who happen to live in Ashtan. we're transforming into a city-focused world, and you don't want to carry over those faults when you don't have to. You'll just end up diluting the city's identity and bringing in old problems that you missed a perfect opportunity to get rid of
In the end, nested orgs solve two problems of renaissance houses: (1) they allow for class-specific RP and the continuation of well-developed orgs that the renaissance houses are replacing and (2) they help to reduce the homogeneity imposed by the new, more-inclusive houses without interfering with their ability to be so inclusive.The problem that the Serpentlords face is that they're not a nested organisation - they're functionally just a citiless house that doesn't have any of the mechanical benefits of other citiless houses (like the CIJ) to make recruitment of newbies feasible. They don't have a city or a house to feed members into them. What I find likely to be problematic about the Serpentlords is that they're setting themselves up to compete with houses as a sort of degenerate, single-class pseudo-house. That's why I think they're in a substantially harder spot than, say, the Order of Thurisaz (even if it has had a rocky start), which is not trying to do the same thing.
A male voice is heard through the membrane, "Hey, girl."
A male voice is heard through the membrane, "Are you an Apostate? ..because you just tore my heart out."