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Please stop focusing on how much you hate me...[lots of other stuff said here].
Please stop focusing on how much you hate me...[lots of other stuff said here].
Please stop focusing on how much you hate me...[lots of other stuff said here].Edit: Not worth it.
Please stop focusing on how much you hate me...[lots of other stuff said here].Edit: Not worth it. relevant, informed, or in all likelihood, true.
Age old mindset. If they run, you win! Yeah, you don't get to pat yourself on the back for a new stat stats number, but it's a win. Moral victory, high-ground, all that.
Age old mindset. If they run, you win! Yeah, you don't get to pat yourself on the back for a new stat stats number, but it's a win. Moral victory, high-ground, all that.EDIT: Example, "You see how the Light allows me the strength to stand and fight while you run at the slightest sign of a negative outcome?" Tada, posturing!
All movement abilities should respect hindering effects. And almost all do. Almost all already have counters. You're just not happy with what already is a a solution. I can't explain why else every time someone tosses out a way to stop someone from fast traveling you suggest that they're wrong, ignorant, or attacking you personally (while simultaneously being so unwilling to discuss other connections to this topic like evade).
@Tael I completely agree with the raid implications here, which is the reason for suggesting changing fast-travel to have delays and/or respect hindrance.That said, it's exactly the same for 1v1 combat as well. Someone running away from you isn't a "win", it's a draw, unless you're in some kind of "duel" where you agree to not use such abilities. It's also worth noting that even in duels/arena you can use many of these to fast-travel within areas/arenas, which is still essentially a reset, particularly since you can just repeat it endlessly if your opponent manages to chase you down.In general, I just disagree that someone fast-traveling == victory. There's a very simple, straight-forward mechanism for deciding who wins. Death. You would consider it ludicrous if contracts were completed purely because someone puppet traveled out of a 1v1 fight, would you not? - but by your logic, they should.Just to keep things in perspective, I am in no way suggesting that we delete them, I'm just asking that these abilities which provide instant, world-wide movement, respect movement hindering effects, since combat is balanced heavily around them.
@ernam first, I don't hate you at all. Second I did read what you said
it's just not so. Most classes just have some form of hindering or
another and web tattoo is available to all classes. While web might not
be the best option 1v1 it can be done in raids, especially if multiple
people are keeping up with it. You just might have to give up being the
hero that slays them and settle for being the person that helps. Which
is what raids are, teamwork. Suggesting web tattoo as a counter is terrible as a counter to fast-travel for so many reasons, not the least of which is you can't actually attack someone while you're webbing them, and in fact, webbing does nothing but allow them to cure while you bleed momentum. For most people, in fact, web eq is slower than writhe, so if anything, you're inviting them to fast travel. In raids, web tattoo might be useful. If you're being raided by a purely hypothetical group of people who don't have buckawns amulets. Also please note that things like web aren't "stackable", so the only response required to fast travel out of being webbed (assuming you don't have buckawns) is to simply wait until you writhe, then eat magnesium, stand, <fast travel>. Things like Impale work, sure, but now we're balancing combat around 2+ vs 1 concepts, which is inherently unbalanced.As far as 1v1 goes, there's
typically a way to stop them whether it's done via hindering affs,
mangled limbs, forcing an action, or what ever, you just need to find a
way around it. That's half the fun, finding a way to best your opponent.There are no hindering afflictions to any of the things I listed, other than paralysis, which is (for this reason) why it is virtually always the highest priority for curing systems. In some cases, two broken arms do stop them, however as I have explained three times now, most classes either don't have access to the ability to double break arms, or do, but can't actually use them without sacrificing all of their momentum in combat. See for reference: Every class other than Monk, BM, and Knights. Also worth mentioning that on standing arm breaks, you can simply walk away. It is simply unreasonable to suggest that you should need a "quad break" (to stop fast travel and walking), since most classes simply don't have access to it, or can't possibly incorporate such setups into a meaningful strategy.What I took from this is, you feel that all "fast-travel" abilities need nerfed because it's allowing people to easily escape your setup. I can't say I feel any of these are any more OP than wings or earrings(even with the recent change) since all of the same things stop travel.Everything I listed ignores all, or almost all, forms of hindrance in the game, unlike Duanathar which respects virtually every form of hindrance. Earrings were given a windup for exactly the reasons I'm detailing. IMO as far as class / group combat balance is concerned, there is zero difference between abilities like old earring and things like Raido, Puppet travel, etc. Specifically, puppet travel is identical to old earring. With chained mushroom, so is Raido. Universe is significantly better than both of them, and can be used by entire groups.
Kaie said:Just try harder and try adding in new things to counter them.
Zone of control is actually a very abstract idea that is already implemented in a lot of specific ways.Knights already have it with lunge and engage, for example, though there are counters to it. Monks can jumpkick and blademasters can engage, so that's some control too. Then there're the movement hindering abilities, such as gravehands or tentacles. The importance of zone of control on that level is obvious from just how powerful evade is by allowing its user to bypass most (albeit not all) of its implementations.I'm the kind of person who hates specific examples, and would much rather abstract everything as much as possible, so in my mind, this entire topic is just asking for a strategy-level zone of control. In Achaea, this means an organization having control over an area rather than individual players.To that end, although it's entirely true that it's possible to hinder people and prevent their escape through active, tactical-level control, that doesn't address that it's completely possible that someone can waltz into a city, snipe at a bunch of people, and then suddenly be gone before anyone can react.Is that a problem? I doubt everyone thinks it is, and I think it's really hard to discuss that level of game mechanic as being necessary or not, since we wouldn't be debating the comparatively objective argument of "what would be balanced" but the much more subjective argument of "what would be more fun."I think that it might not be more fun overall, but rather that it would probably shift the advantage of control in the hands of the defenders. I think that this is a good thing, because raiders already have complete control over when they raid - to give them complete control over when they stop makes it incredibly obvious to me why so many people cry victim after repeated raiding. They have no real agency over the situation.This might be a good direction overall, though, because a raider still has the choice of when to raid, so the loss of control is something they can easily calculate and consider. That said, it's not some grand loss of control - it's not like they're forced to stay in the city for a half hour of combat. At worst, if they want out, they can walk into a guard stack somewhere and turn curing off. So I think the effect would be subtle, and not being a raider myself, it's next to impossible for me to accurately judge if it would be enough or even desirable to begin with.Of course, I'm not actually a raider, so basically everything I said comes with plenty of salt. I'm mostly just posting this in hopes of bringing this topic back on track before it gets closed~