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Shaman Changes when are they coming?

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  • Achimrst
    Achimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Razha said:
    Bluef said:
    Truefashion does increase the fashions when it hits, yet. But we don't accumulate fashions as fast as some people may think. Right now truefashion offers an extra chance at a fashion when it hits. But it doesn't always hit. That's why I'd really prefer a random chance to get between 1-X number of fashions - or some other way to increase the speed at which dolls are fashioned (@Jovolo had an idea for a tethering ability).

    While I don't like that things seems a little imbalanced (for lack of a better word) on some things right now, I love that shaman (and jester) are both highly innovative classes that call upon people to get creative.

    It doesn't sound like shaman may be the class for you though, @Razha‌. If that's the case, then switch into something you might enjoy like Bard.
    I'm not a shaman, because of this, is what I was saying.
    Bard is evil, don't listen to her @Razha!
  • Jovolo
    Jovolo Member Posts: 3,339 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Achimrst said:
    Bluef said:
    Truefashion does increase the fashions when it hits, yet. But we don't accumulate fashions as fast as some people may think. Right now truefashion offers an extra chance at a fashion when it hits. But it doesn't always hit. That's why I'd really prefer a random chance to get between 1-X number of fashions - or some other way to increase the speed at which dolls are fashioned (@Jovolo had an idea for a tethering ability).

    While I don't like that things seems a little imbalanced (for lack of a better word) on some things right now, I love that shaman (and jester) are both highly innovative classes that call upon people to get creative.

    It doesn't sound like shaman may be the class for you though, @Razha‌. If that's the case, then switch into something you might enjoy like Bard.
    Of course you're forgetting that fashioning is probably going to be a Jester thing from now on :P
    You think this, because?
  • Bluef
    Bluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2014
    Razha said:

    I'm not a shaman, because of this, is what I was saying.
    I hope you at least tried shaman long enough to have an informed opinion. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you're doing commenting here (I mean that in the nicest way possible).

    I only say this because you're like 29 and 0% of my might (on this character) and from that alone I began to question whether you had actually embraced class or even had a working knowledge of what the class had the potential to offer. There are definitely a few ways to be a much more offensive shaman fighter, for example.

    Shaman is awesome. It could be more awesome. Bring on the awesome!
  • Achimrst
    Achimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jovolo said:
    Achimrst said:
    Bluef said:
    Truefashion does increase the fashions when it hits, yet. But we don't accumulate fashions as fast as some people may think. Right now truefashion offers an extra chance at a fashion when it hits. But it doesn't always hit. That's why I'd really prefer a random chance to get between 1-X number of fashions - or some other way to increase the speed at which dolls are fashioned (@Jovolo had an idea for a tethering ability).

    While I don't like that things seems a little imbalanced (for lack of a better word) on some things right now, I love that shaman (and jester) are both highly innovative classes that call upon people to get creative.

    It doesn't sound like shaman may be the class for you though, @Razha‌. If that's the case, then switch into something you might enjoy like Bard.
    Of course you're forgetting that fashioning is probably going to be a Jester thing from now on :P
    You think this, because?
    Because yes @Jovolo, yes.

    But since you need a real answer, one day I freaked out on Tecton and he said things and I remember reading in here when trade skills were being split from class skills that they wanted to make it so each class had their own unique skill sets.

    So to be fair, I have no idea but every time anyone suggests a classlead change to Vodun it is automatically rejected with changes that they have ideas for but don't want to explain to us leaving us with absolutely no changes while making changes to Priest to make it more "fun to play".




    So based on my exciting ability to exaggerate everything, which I happen to love about me, and seeing how Shaman are some kind of large project that only two people actually work on it seems to me that the entire classes abilities are being scrapped and given a more cohesive set of abilities to work with where they want the class to go.

    Bluef
  • Razha
    Razha Member Posts: 108 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited September 2014
    Bluef said:
    Razha said:

    I'm not a shaman, because of this, is what I was saying.
    I hope you at least tried shaman long enough to have an informed opinion. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you're doing commenting here (I mean that in the nicest way possible).

    I only say this because you're like 29 and 0% of my might (on this character) and from that alone I began to question whether you had actually embraced class or even had a working knowledge of what the class had the potential to offer. There are definitely a few ways to be a much more offensive shaman fighter, for example.

    Shaman is awesome. It could be more awesome. Bring on the awesome!
    Think you guys are missing my point. It's not the actual skills I have a problem with, it's the fashioning. Makes it annoying to fight as a shaman, and to fight shamans (not as bad as jesters, to be fair). And I do like the RP aspect it of it, a lot, it's just the bad mechanic that kills it for me.
    Bluef
  • Achimrst
    Achimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2014
    Razha said:
    Bluef said:
    Razha said:

    I'm not a shaman, because of this, is what I was saying.
    I hope you at least tried shaman long enough to have an informed opinion. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you're doing commenting here (I mean that in the nicest way possible).

    I only say this because you're like 29 and 0% of my might (on this character) and from that alone I began to question whether you had actually embraced class or even had a working knowledge of what the class had the potential to offer. There are definitely a few ways to be a much more offensive shaman fighter, for example.

    Shaman is awesome. It could be more awesome. Bring on the awesome!
    Think you guys are missing my point. It's not the actual skills I have a problem with, it's the fashioning. Makes it annoying to fight as a shaman, and to fight shamans (not as bad as jesters, to be fair).
    fashioning has never been my problem with shaman, the lack of any real stat bothered me more. Shaman have 10% reduction of all damage, from what I have found, with Algiz plus +7 armor with another +7 if you sketch on your shield. You then have Uruz rune which you have to draw and only stays in one room, with berkana which give you a lvl 1 health regen which I asked and is based on a % of your actual health. Jera rune gives you +1 constitution which is extremely helpful but also gives you strength because Runelore is totally only useful for Runelores, at least in my mind they are.

    So in my view shaman are supposed to stack constitution and just get hit and prepped really easy, which actually happened to me when I tried that. I read around and talked to other shaman and decided to get more dexterity in order to stop myself from being prepped and having both legs mangled to immediately die. Basically without dexterity Shaman are too easy to hit and can't get away easily enough, no fly, no evade, and tumbling is too easy to counter unless you drop a bunch of monolith sigils in the wide area you are going to need to walk people into nairat and wunjo runes. So you need dexterity with constitution.

    Then there is hunting! Can't gain lvl's without hunting and with a low intelligence you hunt VERY slowly especially with the new changes to swiftcurse, which before made low intelligence hunting a lot better since it did double your DPS. Then there is willpower, if you hunt you absolutely need willpower or you will just hunt for like 10 minutes and run out. Both swiftcurse and bleed take willpower so you're burning through it very quickly! So if you plan to hunt you need intelligence! Which adds three stats which Shaman need to be successful in Achaea, Intelligence for hunting, Constitution so you can take advantage of your health regeneration abilities, and Dexterity to stop yourself from being prepped in the first 10 seconds of combat.

    At least this is all in my view from playing shaman, if you all know of a better way to play shaman please let me know! I would love to hear it but all this information is from me actually doing combat with people and asking about things through issues, reading what Sena posts in here and things like that.
    Bluef
  • Hasar
    Hasar Member Posts: 795 @ - Epic Achaean
    You realize that tumble into wunjo/nairat is very strong, right? They either chase and hit runes, or waste EQ on brazier. And a lot of classes can't fly....that's why you buy a RoF or you go atavian, or flying mount.

  • Achimrst
    Achimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    in my experience most people don't chase you when you tumble out, they brazier.
  • Jovolo
    Jovolo Member Posts: 3,339 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2014
    Brazier stalls their offence for almost as long as transfix writhe, so it doesn't really make the tumble useless.

    Especially if you do it during their kill chain: Blademaster/Sentinel/Monk breaks, in which case the Brazier gives you plenty of time to cure up and stand.
    RomDakus
  • Achimrst
    Achimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It's situational I will agree to that, but usually if I need to tumble I am already pretty well prepped for them to simply double mangle and kill me.
  • Bluef
    Bluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I think they're suggesting that you throw gular with runes on the other side so that the person you're fighting has to either tumble in to continue attacking you and then hits wunjo/nairat. Although, I'd argue that most combatants can either leap or fly.

    That said, I also have people walk willing into those runes all the time. They become so used to walking into them that they forget to see what is actually sketched on the ground at times, which can be to your advantage too.
  • Achimrst
    Achimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2014
    Yes, I will take 3 sec to draw Gular while my legs are mangled. I might as well start blighting fear and agoraphobia or shyness :P

    I could probably stick peace on them long enough to heal, hmmm this actually sounds like an interesting idea to try out. Too bad shaman isn't a cohesive class.



    Bluef
  • Bluef
    Bluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Prep the area before you're all mangley wangley. :heart: 

  • Achimrst
    Achimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Bluef said:
    Prep the area before you're all mangley wangley. :heart: 

    I can do that, and get a bunch of tells about how I ride the coat-tails of anyone around me who can do really well in combat or how I am not actually fighting.
    Bluef
  • Hasar
    Hasar Member Posts: 795 @ - Epic Achaean
    It's really not hard to wunjo/nairat adjacent beforehand and  have them unenemied until you need to tumble.....then they either get TRANSFIXED (they have to writhe) or they have to tOUCH BRAZIER (already wasted time for them for EQ, and you can just tumble again.) Incredibly simple.

    AustereBluef
  • Kafziel
    Kafziel Member Posts: 661 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Achimrst said:
    Yes, I will take 3 sec to draw Gular while my legs are mangled.

    If only you could sketch this in advance so you could tumble over it when your legs are broken. That's probably a good idea for a classlead.
    Achimrst said:
    in my experience most people don't chase you when you tumble out, they brazier.
    If only there was some kind of sigil counter to brazier, since it is instant and doesn't stop the attacker's offence at all by using equilibrium.

  • Achimrst
    Achimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kafziel said:
    Achimrst said:
    Yes, I will take 3 sec to draw Gular while my legs are mangled.

    If only you could sketch this in advance so you could tumble over it when your legs are broken. That's probably a good idea for a classlead.
    Achimrst said:
    in my experience most people don't chase you when you tumble out, they brazier.
    If only there was some kind of sigil counter to brazier, since it is instant and doesn't stop the attacker's offence at all by using equilibrium.

    Back it up Kafziel, try it I know I have!
    Austere
  • Kafziel
    Kafziel Member Posts: 661 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Try what
    Achimrst
  • Talysin
    Talysin Member Posts: 576 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    You can play a different class if you don't like your class abilities. #Diversity
    PraxidesBluef
  • Alaric
    Alaric CanadaMember Posts: 73 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    Cahin said:
    Obliterate was a fair and balanced ability and it's removal from puppetry and vodun should have been a crime.
    BluefKayeil
  • Bluef
    Bluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2014
    How shaman class can be overlooked an entire classlead season because of a supposed re-working and then get nerfed this way in this classlead season is beyond me.

    1. Shamans now need three sets of aliases for just one of their major skillsets (Curses, Blights, Swiftcurses). That is ridiculous.

    2. I used to get just shy of 20 seconds worth of swiftcurse with my Level 2 pendant. Now I can only get 13 swiftcurses off before swiftcurse ends. That's right - 7 fewer curses. 

    3. Swiftcurse now has far less PvP utility because you can no longer blight through it. What is the point of this ability again?

    4. None of the changes addressed any of the concerns of players about the reliance on vodun, the difficulty in obtaining fashions, the difficulty with people simply running away to wait out the doll, or about a need for a replacement for vodun illusion, which server-side curing made obsolete as a PvP tactic. 

    In short, recent changes have just made an already unpopular class even more unpopular. GG. 


    KayeilPraxidesAlaricMorsul
  • Alaric
    Alaric CanadaMember Posts: 73 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Again I say booooooooooooooo

    Cahin said:
    Obliterate was a fair and balanced ability and it's removal from puppetry and vodun should have been a crime.
  • Bluef
    Bluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2014
    Why the disagree on my post @Hasar? Since you feel differently than most of us do, and you're a PvPer, maybe you have a different take on these changes. I'm sure everyone who plays shaman would be intrigued to know how they actually help us out.

    @Jacen - I LOL'd and then realized that not a single person who plays this class with their main understands or agrees with these changes, so maybe it's truef? :disappointed: 
  • Austere
    Austere TennesseeMember Posts: 2,378 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I saw the changes to swiftcurse and almost cried with excitement.  Seriously,  this is a step in the right direction guys.  Don't hate it until they have time to access and tweak.  The times could(should) be changed, but this is a major raiding boost to shaman, something shaman really needed. Thank you,  admin!
    Cooper
  • Alaric
    Alaric CanadaMember Posts: 73 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited October 2014
    I only partially agree with you so I can neither click agree or disagree. While it could be considered a boost to raiding it really does take away some of what made swift curse great. Not being able to cast blights under it will mess with a lot

    Cahin said:
    Obliterate was a fair and balanced ability and it's removal from puppetry and vodun should have been a crime.
    Bluef
  • Cooper
    Cooper Member Posts: 5,800 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Not having to upkeep swiftcurse during a fight is a massive, massive buff. If you don't understand why not having to use a long eq swiftcurse in order to curse fast is a huge buff, you should probably change class.

    JhuiAustereAlcinaePraxides
  • Alaric
    Alaric CanadaMember Posts: 73 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited October 2014
    Retracting my comment. Sorry bad night at work

    Cahin said:
    Obliterate was a fair and balanced ability and it's removal from puppetry and vodun should have been a crime.
  • Bluef
    Bluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2014
    People who don't really play the class do probably think that not having to upkeep swiftcurse or worry about an EQ cost would be desirable. But no one was complaining about either of those things (that I know of). 

    Any shaman who had the pendant already didn't really need to worry about upkeeping swiftcurse - Mine used to stay up for 20s. I could pull off more curses (and blighted curses at that) than I can now.

    Anyone who has ever played shaman much also knew that the EQ cost wasn't long at all when you were doubling swiftcurse to keep it up (down to 2s from 4s standard and even less than that for shamans with EQ-reducing artefacts). In other words, keeping up swiftcurse wasn't a pain in anyone's ass. 

    Would it be nice not to have to keep putting swiftcurse up? Yes. But wait, I still do. It's not a totally passive defense that stays up forever. The EQ loss may not be as much, but I still have to put it back up - and more frequently now truth be told. Plus the trade off (not being able to blight curses using swiftcurse) pretty much cancels that bonus out completely for me. I can't get over these three facts:
    1. We used to be able to swiftcurse 1 blighted curse every second (every .8s) and now we can't.
    2. We used to be able to swiftcurse nearly 20 blighted curses with a Level 2 pendant and now the most I could send through was 13 regular curses. 
    3. We now have to use three different syntaxes (curse, blight, swiftcurse) for one simple skillset, which seems to over complicate the skillset unnecessarily.
    @Austere can you break your take on this down for me - How do you see this being a benefit, especially to raid combat specifically? 

  • Cooper
    Cooper Member Posts: 5,800 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You don't actively play your class. You aren't a fighter. You have never been good at combat as any class, especially shaman.

    This was a large buff and it's not our fault if you can't comprehend that. 

    MorsulJovoloDartega
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