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Miscellaneous Maths/Testing II

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  • SobriquetSobriquet Member Posts: 2,334 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sena said:
    I just tested bop. The stock blackjack (60/200/200) deals 480 damage (targeted is the same as untargeted) for 3 seconds of balance (before nimble), at trans pranks.

    I didn't test other stats to confirm it, but presumably it's 300+3*DamageStat damage and the standard weapon speed formula (7-SpeedStat/50 seconds). If so, then the standard blackjack at 12 strength without nimble has 160 DPS, and then 192, 211, and 235 for level 1/2/3, 273 for level 3 runed (546 damage on a 2 second balance, 1.8s with nimble).

    So a runed level 3 blackjack is almost as strong as drawslash in Arash with a level 3 band, if those numbers are accurate.

    And just as an aside, targeting bop makes the flavour text a bit better. Instead of "You reach out and bop Penwize on the nose with your blackjack.", you can get "You reach out and bop Penwize's head (or torso, left leg, etc.) with your blackjack."
    This is interesting, thank you. Been thinking about upgrading my lvl 2 blackjack but wasn't really sure on the difference it would make to me, using it only a little in pvp combined with the option of hunting in Dragon

    Satyr Gallant with 13 Str, lvl 3 pendant, nimble and aim to kill traits
    image
  • UtianimaUtianima Norway and AustriaMember Posts: 259 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Sobriquet said:
    Sena said:
    I just tested bop. The stock blackjack (60/200/200) deals 480 damage (targeted is the same as untargeted) for 3 seconds of balance (before nimble), at trans pranks.

    I didn't test other stats to confirm it, but presumably it's 300+3*DamageStat damage and the standard weapon speed formula (7-SpeedStat/50 seconds). If so, then the standard blackjack at 12 strength without nimble has 160 DPS, and then 192, 211, and 235 for level 1/2/3, 273 for level 3 runed (546 damage on a 2 second balance, 1.8s with nimble).

    So a runed level 3 blackjack is almost as strong as drawslash in Arash with a level 3 band, if those numbers are accurate.

    And just as an aside, targeting bop makes the flavour text a bit better. Instead of "You reach out and bop Penwize on the nose with your blackjack.", you can get "You reach out and bop Penwize's head (or torso, left leg, etc.) with your blackjack."
    This is interesting, thank you. Been thinking about upgrading my lvl 2 blackjack but wasn't really sure on the difference it would make to me, using it only a little in pvp combined with the option of hunting in Dragon

    Satyr Gallant with 13 Str, lvl 3 pendant, nimble and aim to kill traits
    You can borrow my lvl 3 blackjack to try for yourself, if you'd like :)

  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,756 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Utianima said:
    Sobriquet said:
    Sena said:
    I just tested bop. The stock blackjack (60/200/200) deals 480 damage (targeted is the same as untargeted) for 3 seconds of balance (before nimble), at trans pranks.

    I didn't test other stats to confirm it, but presumably it's 300+3*DamageStat damage and the standard weapon speed formula (7-SpeedStat/50 seconds). If so, then the standard blackjack at 12 strength without nimble has 160 DPS, and then 192, 211, and 235 for level 1/2/3, 273 for level 3 runed (546 damage on a 2 second balance, 1.8s with nimble).

    So a runed level 3 blackjack is almost as strong as drawslash in Arash with a level 3 band, if those numbers are accurate.

    And just as an aside, targeting bop makes the flavour text a bit better. Instead of "You reach out and bop Penwize on the nose with your blackjack.", you can get "You reach out and bop Penwize's head (or torso, left leg, etc.) with your blackjack."
    This is interesting, thank you. Been thinking about upgrading my lvl 2 blackjack but wasn't really sure on the difference it would make to me, using it only a little in pvp combined with the option of hunting in Dragon

    Satyr Gallant with 13 Str, lvl 3 pendant, nimble and aim to kill traits
    You can borrow my lvl 3 blackjack to try for yourself, if you'd like :)
    Can't wield someone else's artefact weapon.

  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,276 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You can however, politely request a loan from Tecton if you are curious about whether it would be worth purchasing or not.

    Yes, this is a thing.
    AlcinaeUtianimaMelodiePraxides
  • EldEld Member Posts: 3,946 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sena said:
    Crixos said:
    Damage was tested on a Baalzadeen* if it makes a difference.
    It does, but I haven't figured out why. Decay does 549 against baalzadeens and 545 against falcons. Would you be willing to try bleed on a falcon to see if it's different too?
    Does using decay drain a little health from your Baalzadeen?
    Alcinae
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,164 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If you mean does the ability cost baalzadeen power/health, it doesn't
  • EldEld Member Posts: 3,946 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jovolo said:
    If you mean does the ability cost baalzadeen power/health, it doesn't
    That is what I meant, yes. Only idea I had for why decay would seem to do more against baalzadeens than falcons (assuming it was tested on the person's own baalzadeen).
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,276 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    (or my theory of denizens having variant resists is true)
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Decay and bleed are the same damage type.
    Achimrst
  • NakariNakari Member Posts: 596 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited March 2014
    given the int bump from viridian, it might make more sense to measure it at 14 int for a good baseline. Though I'd be stuck at fifteen, myself.

  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Nakari said:
    given the int bump from viridian, it might make more sense to measure it at 14 int for a good baseline. Though I'd be stuck at fifteen, myself.
    12 is good for comparison because it entirely removes the effect of str/int so you can see the base damage, viridian giving extra int doesn't change that (although it makes it a lot harder to find someone with 12 int in viridian).
  • DalranDalran Member Posts: 227 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    How is magi bashing? I don't remember reading it earlier in the thread (probably just missed it though)
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You can compare some bashing attacks, including staffcast, here. It's missing a lot, though.

    For a shorter summary: Unartied magi has poor damage output against denizens, slow attacks with low damage. But since they use magical attacks that take eq, there are a lot of artefacts to improve offence, so a fully artied magi is pretty good.

    With 19 int, L3 collar, and diadem, staffcast should have about 242 DPS. That's nothing amazing really, some classes can beat that at 12 str/int, but it's good.

    Also, I realised I've never posted stormhammer details.
    Stormhammer eq is 6 seconds. I don't have the damage at 12 int, but I'd estimate ~644. When you hit multiple targets, the first target takes full damage, the other two take about 5% less. So if you're hitting 3 targets, you're getting much higher DPS than staffcast (about 2.7 times as much).
    Dalran
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Maybe I'm just terrible at forums, but I can't find a way to download that.
    MannimarTrey
  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,756 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Fixed it, I think

  • KyrraKyrra Sanctum of the SkyMember Posts: 4,840 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Trey, you clearly need more steel as incentive ;)

    I've always been interested in knowing what's decent and what's crap, and not many people seem keen on sharing the info so I really appreciate that. @Aelios and @Maccabeus have been nifty about answering random questions too.
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

    Aelios
  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,756 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kyrra said:
    @Trey, you clearly need more steel as incentive ;) I've always been interested in knowing what's decent and what's crap, and not many people seem keen on sharing the info so I really appreciate that. @Aelios and @Maccabeus have been nifty about answering random questions too.
    I WILL PAY YOU SO HARD FOR STEEL.

    Kyrra
  • VadimusesVadimuses Member Posts: 1,111 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited April 2014
    It's a bit difficult to test the delay the server-side curing imposes, if any. Anyone have numbers? I've got a few theories as to why this is happening...

    Lightning-quick, Khalaz jabs you with an ornate steel rapier.
    A prickly stinging overcomes your body, fading away into numbness.
    Khalaz viciously jabs an ornate steel rapier into you.
    You feel a tightening sensation grow in your lungs.
    (p) (x) 3199h|69%, 4410m|93%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [par bld(88) ast] {24 Mayan 651}(-452h, 9.8%) 
    [Curing]: EAT BLOODROOT
    You eat a bloodroot leaf.
    Your muscles unlock; you are no longer paralysed. (0.314s)
    (p) (x) 3199h|69%, 4410m|93%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(88) ast] {24 Mayan 651}
    You have recovered equilibrium. (3.771s)
    (p) (ex) 3199h|69%, 4410m|93%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(88) ast] {24 Mayan 651}
    [Curing]: TOUCH TREE
    You touch the tree of life tattoo.
    Your bronchial tubes open up and your asthma is cured. (0.651s)
    (p) (ex) 3199h|69%, 4410m|93%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(88)] {24 Mayan 651}
    [Curing]: CLOT
    You may eat another plant or mineral. (1.388s)
    (p) (ex) 3199h|69%, 4350m|91%, 99w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(88)] {24 Mayan 651}
    You fling your arms skyward and let out a glorious laugh as you are filled with a stamina that wells 
    up from deep within you.
    (p) (x) 4119h|89%, 4350m|91%, 99w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(88)] {24 Mayan 651}(+920h, 20.0%) 
    You bleed 84 health.
    (p) (x) 4035h|87%, 4350m|91%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(84)] {24 Mayan 651}(-84h, 1.8%) 
    Lightning-quick, Khalaz jabs you with an ornate steel rapier.
    A prickly stinging overcomes your body, fading away into numbness.
    Lightning-quick, Khalaz jabs you with an ornate steel rapier.
    You feel a tightening sensation grow in your lungs.
    (p) (x) 3353h|72%, 4350m|91%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [par bld(84) ast] {24 Mayan 651}(-682h, 14.8%) 
    [Curing]: EAT BLOODROOT
    You eat a bloodroot leaf.
    Your muscles unlock; you are no longer paralysed. (0.358s)
    (p) (x) 3353h|72%, 4350m|91%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(84) ast] {24 Mayan 651}
    You have recovered equilibrium. (2.891s)
    (p) (ex) 3353h|72%, 4350m|91%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(84) ast] {24 Mayan 651}
    You may eat another plant or mineral. (1.482s)
    (p) (ex) 3353h|72%, 4350m|91%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(84) ast] {24 Mayan 651}
    [Curing]: EAT KELP
    You eat a piece of kelp.
    Your bronchial tubes open up and your asthma is cured. (1.854s)
    (p) (ex) 3353h|72%, 4350m|91%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(84)] {24 Mayan 651}
    You fling your arms skyward and let out a glorious laugh as you are filled with a stamina that wells 
    up from deep within you.
    (p) (x) 4273h|92%, 4350m|91%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(84)] {24 Mayan 651}(+920h, 20.0%) 
    You may eat another plant or mineral. (1.41s)
    (p) (x) 4273h|92%, 4350m|91%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(84)] {24 Mayan 651}
    Khalaz viciously jabs an ornate steel rapier into you.
    A prickly stinging overcomes your body, fading away into numbness.
    Lightning-quick, Khalaz jabs you with an ornate steel rapier.
    You feel a tightening sensation grow in your lungs.
    (p) (x) 3821h|83%, 4350m|91%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [par bld(84) ast] {24 Mayan 651}(-452h, 9.8%) 
    [Curing]: EAT BLOODROOT
    You eat a bloodroot leaf.
    Your muscles unlock; you are no longer paralysed. (0.329s)
    (p) (x) 3821h|83%, 4350m|91%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(84) ast] {24 Mayan 651}
    [Curing]: CLOT
    You bleed 105 health.
    (p) (x) 3716h|80%, 4290m|90%, 99w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(105) ast] {24 Mayan 651}(-105h, 2.3%) 
    [Curing]: TOUCH TREE
    You touch the tree of life tattoo.
    Your bronchial tubes open up and your asthma is cured. (0.977s)
    (p) (x) 3716h|80%, 4290m|90%, 99w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(105)] {24 Mayan 651}
    You have recovered equilibrium. (3.511s)

  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I haven't tried it in real conditions (actual combat, handling multiple afflictions at once), but here are the times from some simple testing (turn nightsight off and see how long it takes to be put up, then sit sit/stand and arsenic/sensory, 100 tests of each).

    Nightsight (average 167ms): 31, 46, 47, 47, 47, 47, 62, 62, 63, 93, 93, 94, 94, 94, 94, 109, 109, 109, 109, 110, 110, 125, 125, 125, 140, 140, 140, 140, 140, 141, 141, 141, 141, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 157, 157, 171, 171, 171, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 188, 188, 188, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 204, 204, 218, 218, 219, 219, 219, 219, 250, 266, 297, 328, 406, 422, 422, 500

    Stand (average 190ms): 47, 62, 62, 63, 63, 78, 93, 110, 110, 110, 140, 141, 141, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 157, 157, 157, 157, 157, 157, 157, 157, 171, 171, 171, 171, 171, 171, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 187, 187, 187, 187, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 204, 218, 218, 219, 219, 234, 250, 250, 250, 312, 328, 344, 407, 422, 453, 469, 547, 625

    Sensory (average 181ms): 15, 46, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 62, 62, 62, 62, 63, 63, 63, 78, 78, 78, 79, 93, 93, 94, 94, 94, 109, 109, 109, 109, 109, 109, 110, 125, 125, 125, 125, 125, 125, 125, 125, 141, 141, 141, 141, 156, 156, 156, 157, 171, 171, 171, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 203, 203, 203, 219, 219, 219, 234, 234, 235, 235, 235, 250, 250, 250, 250, 250, 265, 312, 313, 328, 344, 406, 454, 484, 484, 485, 500, 593, 906

    All 3 combined (average 179ms): 15, 31, 46, 46, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 62, 62, 62, 62, 62, 62, 62, 62, 63, 63, 63, 63, 63, 63, 78, 78, 78, 78, 79, 93, 93, 93, 93, 93, 94, 94, 94, 94, 94, 94, 94, 109, 109, 109, 109, 109, 109, 109, 109, 109, 109, 110, 110, 110, 110, 110, 110, 125, 125, 125, 125, 125, 125, 125, 125, 125, 125, 125, 140, 140, 140, 140, 140, 140, 141, 141, 141, 141, 141, 141, 141, 141, 141, 141, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 157, 157, 157, 157, 157, 157, 157, 157, 157, 157, 157, 171, 171, 171, 171, 171, 171, 171, 171, 171, 171, 171, 171, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 204, 204, 204, 218, 218, 218, 218, 219, 219, 219, 219, 219, 219, 219, 219, 219, 234, 234, 234, 235, 235, 235, 250, 250, 250, 250, 250, 250, 250, 250, 250, 265, 266, 297, 312, 312, 313, 328, 328, 328, 344, 344, 406, 406, 407, 422, 422, 422, 453, 454, 469, 484, 484, 485, 500, 500, 547, 593, 625, 906

    Not sure how meaningful or useful this is.
  • VadimusesVadimuses Member Posts: 1,111 @ - Epic Achaean
    Okay, that range of numbers throws my theory out. I'd still like to know how this works, then.
  • UtianimaUtianima Norway and AustriaMember Posts: 259 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    @Sena did you also check your ping multiple times to see if the same fluctuation occurs outside of curing? If not, then I assume either A) curing happens within certain random time or certain predetermined "ticks" or B) it could be different for different afflictions, and needs more testing with different afflictions.

  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    My ping is consistently around 60ms. Normally it will fluctuate about 5ms either way, sometimes 10. Not enough to make a huge difference. There is the possibility of more intermittent lag spikes (on my end or the server's) though, especially on an outlier like that 906 there.

    It doesn't happen on a consistent tick, my guess is that there's simply a random delay (or a non-random delay with huge fluctuations caused by other things), but I don't have enough information to be sure of anything.
  • VadimusesVadimuses Member Posts: 1,111 @ - Epic Achaean
    Still interested to know whenever the simulated ping delay is working and what is it. Seems to be instant at some times, and then with the normal ping time the other times.
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    I decided to make a fully artied DPS ranking to go along with my unartied DPS ranking in another thread. Before that though, I'm wondering what people think I should use as an example of top-end forged rapiers. What are the highest damage and speed people have seen? Or should I just stick with soulpiercers?

    JhuiIskla
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited June 2014

    Decided to go ahead and use soulpiercers for now. This means knights aren't ranked very high, so just keep in mind that they can be a lot better with great forged rapiers.

    Assumes all relevant artefacts (listed for each class, along with total cost), nimble or quick-witted, 20 pre-class-abilities strength for non-dragons (16 for satyr/troll/xoran with str spec+trait, +3 from artefacts, +1 from jera), 19 pre-class-abilities int for non-dragons (16 for grook/siren/tsol'aa with int spec+trait, +3 from artefacts). Ignores accuracy, ignores endurance/willpower usage, and ignores criticals (which only matters for alchemist, since no other class has a crit bonus). Keep in mind that these numbers are estimates which assume that every class uses the same stat formula, and there are probably a few that don't, so I wouldn't expect this to be 100% accurate.

    The list is spoilered since it's longer and more detailed than the unartied list.
    Monk: 503 in scorpion stance
    Artefacts (4100 credits): L3 Gauntlets, L3 Knuckles

    Shaman: ~432 with optimal swiftcursing, 245 without swiftcurse.
    Artefacts (4950 credits): L3 Sash, L3 Collar, Diadem (for swiftcurse)

    Dragon: 408
    Artefacts (2500 credits): L3 Gauntlets
    Note: I was going to include incantation, for people who already have int arties for their lesserform class, but fully artied incantation is actually still worse than unartied gut.

    Blademaster: 387 in Sanya, 250 in Mir, 447 in Arash
    Artefacts (4100): L3 Gauntlets, L3 Band

    Jester: 372
    Artefacts (3500): L3 Gauntlets, L3 Blackjack

    Bard: 340
    Artefacts (8200): L3 Rapier, L3 Gauntlets, L3 Sash, L3 Collar
    Note: Assumes 20 str and 14 int (str-specced satyr/xoran plus jera and artefacts).

    Priest: 292 (312 with inspiration)
    Artefacts (4100): L3 Gauntlets, L3 Mace

    Sylvan: 309
    Artefacts (4950 credits): L3 Sash, L3 Collar, Diadem

    Druid/Sentinel: 302 with reflexes, 226 without reflexes
    Artefacts (4100 credits): L3 Gauntlets, L3 Knuckles

    Runewarden: 288
    Artefacts (5700): L3 Rapier (x2), L3 Gauntlets

    Alchemist: 281
    Artefacts (4950 credits): L3 Sash, L3 Collar, Diadem
    Note: Alchemists get a crit bonus from extispicy, which gives a decent boost to their offense that isn't calculated here.

    Occultist: 281 (306 if you can get a +3 int mog)
    Artefacts (4950 credits): L3 Sash, L3 Collar, Diadem

    Apostate: 281
    Artefacts (4950 credits): L3 Sash, L3 Collar, Diadem

    Paladin: 256 (273 with inspiration)
    Artefacts (5700): L3 Rapier (x2), L3 Gauntlets

    Infernal: 256
    Artefacts (5700): L3 Rapier (x2), L3 Gauntlets

    Mage: 237 with staffcast, ~641 if you're hitting 3 targets with stormhammer
    Artefacts (4950 credits): L3 Sash, L3 Collar, Diadem
    Note: Magi is ranked this low just because of staffcast. With stormhammer being so situational, it's difficult to rank properly, but it can be pretty awesome.

    Serpent: 220
    Artefacts (1400): L3 Lash

    Classless: 171
    Artefacts (4000): L3 Dirk, L3 Gauntlets

    Very different from the unartied rankings.
    NemutaurNaverreMizikTesha
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    I forgot that shamans now have skull pendants to increase swiftcurse duration. This doesn't change shaman's relative position in the rankings, but it does change the numbers:

    Shaman: ~448 with optimal swiftcursing, 245 without swiftcurse.
    Artefacts (6550 credits): L3 Sash, L3 Collar, Diadem (for swiftcurse), L3 Skull Pendant


  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,178 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    But how do traits and racial specs alter? An int specced grook monk is going to have quite different results to a str specced troll monk...  >:)


    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Int-specced grook monk would be:

    Unartied without nimble: 224
    Unartied with nimble: 249
    Fully artied (14 str) without nimble: 375
    Fully artied with nimble: 417
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