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Seafaring Trades Changes?

SuladanSuladan Member Posts: 193 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

@Tecton‌ ;Not that it's really what anybody's attention is on right now, but did something change with Seafaring trades or is it just the RNG being evil again? There used to be a decent trade (i.e. 25cr or Crown) at least once every other RL week or so. But I've been checking every day and haven't seen either of these for over a RL month (not exaggerating). 

I know as soon as seafaring gets brought up it goes into how it needs a whole overhaul, blah, blah - but I'm just asking specifically about those trades. I would think that wouldn't require hardly anything to put back or tweak. Because seriously, who's going to pay 50+k in freight and docking fees for 5 bound credits? If somebody would do that I'd like to meet them as I have some things to sell them, too....

The Truths hurt. Always.
Jules
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Comments

  • TectonTecton The Garden of the GodsAdministrator Posts: 2,507 Admin
    Nothing's changed in that regard, it just picks a different deal from the 60-odd in the system each Achaean month - it's completely random.

  • SuladanSuladan Member Posts: 193 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    Ok, tks. RNG strikes again!

    The Truths hurt. Always.
    JulesTrilliana
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 6,144 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Yeah, I'm not sure where the 60 assorted trade thing comes in either. The only ones I've seen are hat, barrel of rum, ammo, 65k, 5 bound credits, 100k, 75k, gryphon, caged bird, morale, and maybe some others. There would usually be either a 100k or a crown deal at least every other week, and honestly  these are the only ones most people even bother with since most trades require an initial investment of 35k-48k for the first batch of trade goods.

    In the last month and a half, I noticed that the crown deals have been completely absent, so have just waited for the more lucrative ones (and by that I really just mean the 100k mostly) because one can make more from hunting in the same amount of time they'd spend sailing around doing the trades, and that's only for roughly half of the original payout when you subtract your initial starting cost for cargo as well as port fees.

    Still, it's better than nothing, but I thought the crown deals and the 100k deals would be semi-frequently if nothing else, as the rest of the trades are just not that enticing for the time and gold needed to be invested for them.



  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean

    I was actually under the impression that the Crown and Token deals had been rescinded entirely, as were many, if not most people in The Mariner's Guild (because that's where I asked).  Only today did it come out that those things do technically still exist as possibilities, as now even the 25 bound credit deals seem quite rare and we were discussing those.  

  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 433 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    Probably doubles/triples in the list to adjust the rarity of things.

  • NemutaurNemutaur GermanyMember Posts: 1,068

    I remember that there was a Mayan Crown deal on the day before the most recent Mayan Crown credit promotion happened, then it got removed before the next Serenade. That always made me laugh.

  • KinilanKinilan Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 1,255 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Nemutaur said:

    I remember that there was a Mayan Crown deal on the day before the most recent Mayan Crown credit promotion happened, then it got removed before the next Serenade. That always made me laugh.

    Ya 8pm EST the day the new SoW items were announced like only a few hours earlier. Pretty sure the only people able to accept the deal before it got pulled were Ashtani and PoM because everyone else wanted to wait until there were fewer sharks on the water. Good times :D

  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaMember Posts: 5,029 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    I was so pissed when that happened. :(

    But then @Kross made things better, so everything went better than expected.

               My wing tips waltz across naive
                     Wood floors they creak
                  Innocently down the stairs

                          Drag melody
    My percussive feet serve cobweb headaches as a
              Matching set of marching clocks
                The slumbering apparitions
              That they've come to wake up
    Kross
  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,178 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Melodie said:

    I was so pissed when that happened. :(

    But then @Kross made things better, so everything went better than expected.

    @Kross‌ makes everything better, he's the official Snugglebunny of Achaea. Srsly, ask him for a snuggle next time you see him IG, you won't be disappointed.


    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
  • ValnuranaValnurana Moderator Posts: 129 Immortal
    Don't confuse deals with rewards. A pirate hat is a reward. Trading 50 gems for a pirate hat, or trading 2 spices for a pirate hat... those are two separate deals. That's probably why you don't perceive as many.
    DalranNemutaurAiniaAluciana
  • KinilanKinilan Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 1,255 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Valnurana said:
    Don't confuse deals with rewards. A pirate hat is a reward. Trading 50 gems for a pirate hat, or trading 2 spices for a pirate hat... those are two separate deals. That's probably why you don't perceive as many.

    The issue isn't the lack of rewards, it is rewards like 5 bound credits for about 36,000 in trade goods plus docking fees which vary by the routes you can take and your time. It's not worth the time and effort. Or deals like the ammo one that give you about 6,000 gold worth of ammo for a similar investment of time and gold. Or the 65,000 and 75,000 gold trade deals requiring the same amount of trade goods as the 100,000 deal.

    The only deals worth putting the time and gold into after accouting for the initial investment in cargo, plus your time (and risk for some) are the two 100k deals, the crown and the 25 bound credits. The bird carge, with two possible pets and the two mounts and the hat (it is a striking sea captain's hat by the way, not a kick ass pirate hat) can also be worth it if you want that sort of thing but in terms of making gold of the market, not so much. They are old and the market is flooded now. As mentioned there is also the Silver token deal but that hasn't been seen in over a year. But that's understandable at least. Each token means an investment of admin time on customisations.

    All the other deals however are a waste of gold. You can get the rewards they offer far faster and far cheaper without even owning a ship.


    MelodieLacertixKresslack
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean

    There's also the pirate factor.  The ideal situation is that Mariners (i.e. Targossian, Eleusian, and Cyrenian sailors) will start to get a bit more competent and fight back, but that actually means the seas will become more of a gold sink than they are (and it seems like they're a very good gold sink).  It's really hard to get excited about these mostly very anemic trade deals in and of themselves in that environment.

    Trilliana
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean

    I'm also confused at what is meant by some sort of distinction between deals and rewards, and how or whether that distinction matters.

  • KinilanKinilan Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 1,255 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jules said:

    I'm also confused at what is meant by some sort of distinction between deals and rewards, and how or whether that distinction matters.

    She means there are variations in the trade deals, like 100k gold for 5 spices or 100k for 5 gems. So there are two different 100k trade deals.

    Jules
  • ValnuranaValnurana Moderator Posts: 129 Immortal
    As far as whether the distinction matters, it doesn't really - just clarifying where Tecton's estimate comes from! Adding different rewards is on the list, though, we're certainly aware that the current selection has gotten old. It is intentional, however, to have a variety of good deals and not-so-good ones depending on the day. Sometime Tasur'ke really just needs a lot of wine and doesn't have much to offer. Can you blame them? ;)
    Jules
  • KinilanKinilan Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 1,255 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Valnurana said:
    As far as whether the distinction matters, it doesn't really - just clarifying where Tecton's estimate comes from! Adding different rewards is on the list, though, we're certainly aware that the current selection has gotten old. It is intentional, however, to have a variety of good deals and not-so-good ones depending on the day. Sometime Tasur'ke really just needs a lot of wine and doesn't have much to offer. Can you blame them? ;)

    No, of course not. It makes sense IC and OOC of course you don't want crowns and credits and gold flowing into the economy every day. But there is a line between not-so-good and pointless and most of the deals are on the wrong side of that line to the detriment of seafaring conflict. trades being the only thing that makes people move ships around, instead of beaching a ship to use for island bashing access or sitting somewhere to fish or dive which I've seen less and less of lately but that's probably pom/Ashtan's fault. Because we're nasty bullies like that.

    ShirszaeYaeKerria
  • GreysGreys Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 713 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Jules said:

    There's also the pirate factor.  The ideal situation is that Mariners (i.e. Targossian, Eleusian, and Cyrenian sailors) will start to get a bit more competent and fight back, but that actually means the seas will become more of a gold sink than they are (and it seems like they're a very good gold sink).  It's really hard to get excited about these mostly very anemic trade deals in and of themselves in that environment.

    Well can tell you at least on the Targossas end, that will not be happening.  Pretty much most of our ships are probably going to be drydocked from lack of use.

  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean

    Fair enough.  I definitely understand dormancy.  That said, we're hoping to do another mini-exercise at the arena shortly after the Reckoning ends.  It will be advertised on Mariners again.  

    Dalran
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean

    They are.  But while getting sunk is exciting in a way, there's a definitely chilling effect (when you actually get sunk).  I was very lucky mine was close to shore (it's actually a good thing this is a favorite tactic, as a loss far from shore can be pretty devastating).  I think you need a certain level of justified confidence in your skills, and you also need to not be sailing alone (things I think you've already got covered).

  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean

    Yeah, if I'm not in the right harbour to accept a good deal, I normally won't bother, and I won't try to actually complete it until things have hopefully cooled off, usually in legs.  I feel the same way about the pirates (very mixed; is it exciting or a fun crushing pain in the ass?).  The set-up means the oceans are the one place you have non-comms meeting comms as the default.  It's hard for me to imagine no pirates, however.  Talk about boring as shit. 

    Ainia
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean

    er, coms... 

  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ainia said:

    I feel like with what post perceive as crappy deals happening more often is a good thing because when it is something really good like 25cr or a crown, the pirates are clogging the trade routes just waiting to sink people.

    Pirates can do that exactly because the good deals are infrequent. If there were 3-4 different worthwhile trade deals at any given time, there would always be a reason for people to be out trading, there wouldn't be any specific point where the pirates can go "there's a good trade deal now, so we can catch the ships following that one predictable route".

    Jules
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,276 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    I dislike the relatively tricky and non-intuitive math involved in calculating proper yields for shiptrades from t1 to t-whatever materials. It seems so unnecessary. I raised this (and other seafaring stuff including shiptrades as a whole) last classleads and got fobbed off, so don't expect many changes for a while.

    Jules
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean

    ^I bought Jarrod's (I think it was  him) Strade thingy, because screw that.  But yes, really?  

    Ainia
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,276 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    I was envisioning something akin to a free market of supply/demand oriented resource trading between ports - not some belated version of a fetch quest that takes hours upon hours to finish in the best of circumstances. Kind of like commodity trading, except more fluid, more regulated, and actually fun. Undersupplied harbours wouldn't be able to fit as many ships or do certain upgrades or even provide food for sale, that sort of thing, so there was real incentive to ensure that all the major harbours were adequately stocked via trades.

    Hell, could have even had city-states producing unique goods from their harbours that were coveted by other cities, opening up new avenues for smuggling gameplay and covert dealings, all sorts of other cool crap.

  • KinilanKinilan Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 1,255 @@ - Legendary Achaean


    Ainia said:

    I had a 25cr deal on my ship for like 4 rl months once because I was so afraid of the pirates then I went fuck this,

    What? 4 months? Girl, slip the PoM 20k and you're safe for 6 days, plenty of time to knock out a single trade deal. Shameless plug, I know but keeping people off the water completely isn't what we want as an organization or as players.


    Daeir said:

    I dislike the relatively tricky and non-intuitive math involved in calculating proper yields for shiptrades from t1 to t-whatever materials. It seems so unnecessary. I raised this (and other seafaring stuff including shiptrades as a whole) last classleads and got fobbed off, so don't expect many changes for a while.


      The worst are routes that leave you with extra bits just sitting in your hold. Wasted gold that you don't get anything from until you've done the route so many times that all the leftovers add up to a completed deal. Not to mention the fact that you can lose some trade goods when you get sunk (so I've been told) so even id you do try to save them up you could just end up losing that much more.


    Daeir said:

    I was envisioning something akin to a free market of supply/demand oriented resource trading between ports - not some belated version of a fetch quest that takes hours upon hours to finish in the best of circumstances. Kind of like commodity trading, except more fluid, more regulated, and actually fun. Undersupplied harbours wouldn't be able to fit as many ships or do certain upgrades or even provide food for sale, that sort of thing, so there was real incentive to ensure that all the major harbours were adequately stocked via trades.

    Hell, could have even had city-states producing unique goods from their harbours that were coveted by other cities, opening up new avenues for smuggling gameplay and covert dealings, all sorts of other cool crap.


    To me the ideal system would be something that has people wanting to move from harbour to harbour every day, not just when there is a great deal on the table which would mean more people on the water at any given time instead of a once weekly/monthly rush. There would also need to be more routes or at least delivery points. If someone really wanted to they could just blockade Tasur'ke or Thraasi. It takes nothing to sit inside a harbour, wait for a ship to show up, jump out of the harbour and fire a boarding deck/grapple/be an asshole. The greatest strength to seafaring as it's own system and not just a way to access semi-private bashing areas or easy gold through fishing is ship trade and the unique items the system has or had to offer with most of that being the crowns which translate into either gold/credits through the market or the SoW inventory which otherwise could only really be accessed during the month of a corwn promotion which now seems far and away less successful than the new talisman promos.


  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean

    Ainia's probably high profile enough that paying off PoM feels awkward.  I'd feel awkward because I accepted a maritime aide position, which I'd never have done if it weren't a house req, but glad I did.  All in all, though, more people should try the whole "pay off the dirty pirates" thing.    

  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    Also, when I was sunk I was very lucky to have a little extra cargo.  It saved me doing the whole damn thing over (which I might not have done).

  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean

    Not sure if Cyrene has rules against it, either.  Hopefully we don't.  

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