Welcome to the Achaea Forums! Please be sure to read the Forum Rules.

The Next Achaea Class

16791112

Comments

  • WeiWei Monterey, CaliforniaMember Posts: 139 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    So many people would be pissed if Serpents became factional to Hashan.

    I am not one of those people.

    KayeilJukilianTrevize
  • JukilianJukilian Member Posts: 1,579 @ - Epic Achaean
    Many people will be mad if Serpents become factional. Hence why I think another stealth-based class based around the idea of Darkness/Shadow/Night would be great. Hashan could (eventually..) become feared if they grow in their capacity to provide assassins, spies, thieves.

    AveriAchimrst
  • ElcryionElcryion Member Posts: 9
    edited May 2014

    A lot of Hashan's problems can be solved if its theme (the Night) is actually manifested, no need to create a whole new class. Conversely, creating a new class for Hashan would, at best, be a band-aid fix. The core problem (neutrality sucks) would still be there as long as the group of people who want that neutrality theme to remain aren't clearly told that Hashan does not represent neutrality.

    Have the Triad lead an event where Hashan helps the dark spirits of the Spirit Realm take over that plane. The Crown Institute of Alchemy does a draconian takeover of the anchors, because stars something something spirit something Mayaween something Serpent. Dun dun dun, 'Night has fallen over the Spirit Plane'. This would be a prelude to Hashan becoming the faction that aims to subjugate the rest of the world under Night leadership, because everything is better with a pinch of (dark) spirit -- making it more distinct against Nature, Good, Evil, and Chaos.

    Okay so maybe make shamans and alchemists factional classes to Hashan.

    Shrug, I'm just newly returned to Achaea. But Hashan has always been a favorite of mine, and I'd love to see it spruced up.

    BlujixapugAsmodron
  • KaraiKarai Member Posts: 325 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited May 2014

    @Tecton promised something factional for Hashan but he also said there would be no new classes. If anything, Shaman would be to be reworked since it was the first or at least the most profound class for quite a while. Alchemists fit very well but other cities need them for curatives and to make up for the loss of forestals in general. No one's going to be melding shadow into a weapon unless you're making shadow-puppets, no need to be so literal. Although @Penwize suggested that Hashan through some city-wide mechanic, be able to conjure darkness over an area similar to the premise of the Darkenwood that could affect Rights of Dawn, Grove powers..

    This is the curse we all bear, the forums will not be free of Hashan until it is made a relevant city. -makes hand puppets with light from computer-screen-

    Elcryion
  • JukilianJukilian Member Posts: 1,579 @ - Epic Achaean
    Karai said:

    @Tecton promised something factional for Hashan but he also said there would be no new classes. If anything, Shaman would be to be reworked since it was the first or at least the most profound class for quite a while. Alchemists fit very well but other cities need them for curatives and to make up for the loss of forestals in general. No one's going to be melding shadow into a weapon unless you're making shadow-puppets, no need to be so literal. Although @Penwize suggested that Hashan through some city-wide mechanic, be able to conjure darkness over an area similar to the premise of the Darkenwood that could affect Rights of Dawn, Grove powers..

    This is the curse we all bear, the forums will not be free of Hashan until it is made a relevant city. -makes hand puppets with light from computer-screen-

    Bolded: May I ask where?

    As for melding shadow into a weapon, what's wrong with that? You can already meld shadow around you to shroud yourself. You can use the four elements to make yourself a staff.

    How is that so outrageous?

  • KaraiKarai Member Posts: 325 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Tecton Posts: 978 Pentad
    Vayne said:
    When is Hashan's factional class coming out?
    We've got plans in the works to give Hashan some tools to aide in a stronger factional identity. It doesn't include a new class though, unfortunately.
    Zeon
  • JukilianJukilian Member Posts: 1,579 @ - Epic Achaean

    It may or may not mean making an existing class factional. Will have to wait and see!

  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean

    The bitching would be too loud, and to be fair, some of it would probably be legitimate, as all of the currently non-factional classes really have been just that for a very, very long time, without even a pretense of factional obligation.  Cyrene and Hashan really do need our own cool classes though, just like all of the other kids.  By my count, we really should both get at least two, and at least one of those should have powerful strategic skills, but it's not like admin can just crank out new classes.  Or hell, maybe admin will just wade in and re-designate some classes with grandfathering for those who don't want to move (which a fair few will also hate, as there seems to be a decent sized contingent that is anti-grandfathering too).  

  • KotaruKotaru Member Posts: 30 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    Now I'm wishing for classes to have a skill based on which city you live in to replace those lost to tradeskills. Though serpent doesn't really have an extraneous one, unless you make all of Hypnosis a Subterfuge ability.

    Wei
  • WeiWei Monterey, CaliforniaMember Posts: 139 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    City skills would be rad.

    ShirszaeZeonPraxides
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kotaru said:

    Now I'm wishing for classes to have a skill based on which city you live in to replace those lost to tradeskills. Though serpent doesn't really have an extraneous one, unless you make all of Hypnosis a Subterfuge ability.

    Unless the plan has changed, venom is one of the tradeskills (because milking) being split off.

  • JukilianJukilian Member Posts: 1,579 @ - Epic Achaean

    It's not as though Venoms are what, y'know, makes a Serpent a Serpent.

  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 3,114 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jules said:

    The bitching would be too loud, and to be fair, some of it would probably be legitimate, as all of the currently non-factional classes really have been just that for a very, very long time, without even a pretense of factional obligation.  , Cyrene and Hashan really do need our own cool classes though, just like all of the other kids.  By my count, we really should both get at least two, and at least one of those should have powerful strategic skills, but it's not like admin can just crank out new classes.  Or hell, maybe admin will just wade in and re-designate some classes with grandfathering for those who don't want to move (which a fair few will also hate, as there seems to be a decent sized contingent that is anti-grandfathering too).  

    Just to clarify here to the masses, the concept of a 'factional class being cool' doesnt just manifest from thin air. A factional class is made based on the IDEA and THEME of that faction. Take occultists, chaos and its evolution into oblivion is one of the biggest and most flavorful aspect Achaea has ever developed. There are pages upon pages of Achaean events and lore that devoted to the very concept. If the entire theme and idea of chaos was not so developed, then the occultist class wouldnt be such a big player to begin with it, combat aside. Take Mhaldor and Shallam/Targossas as well. Evil and Good have been big themes and players (good having a rocky journey admittedly) and so the classes and factions developed from such causes have the flavor and fun backing them.


    The problem with Hashan and Cyrene isnt a factional class, nor would a factional class solve their problem. The problem is theme and idea. Fix that first, and -then- you could produce your herald class to unleash on the world.


    Peace.


    MelodieTharvis
  • JukilianJukilian Member Posts: 1,579 @ - Epic Achaean
    Sorry for using my imagination. :(
    Wei
  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Elcryion said:

    A lot of Hashan's problems can be solved if its theme (the Night) is actually manifested, no need to create a whole new class. Conversely, creating a new class for Hashan would, at best, be a band-aid fix. The core problem (neutrality sucks) would still be there as long as the group of people who want that neutrality theme to remain aren't clearly told that Hashan does not represent neutrality.

    Have the Triad lead an event where Hashan helps the dark spirits of the Spirit Realm take over that plane. The Crown Institute of Alchemy does a draconian takeover of the anchors, because stars something something spirit something Mayaween something Serpent. Dun dun dun, 'Night has fallen over the Spirit Plane'. This would be a prelude to Hashan becoming the faction that aims to subjugate the rest of the world under Night leadership, because everything is better with a pinch of (dark) spirit -- making it more distinct against Nature, Good, Evil, and Chaos.

    Okay so maybe make shamans and alchemists factional classes to Hashan.

    Shrug, I'm just newly returned to Achaea. But Hashan has always been a favorite of mine, and I'd love to see it spruced up.

    This just sounds ridiculous to me because I have actually done Spirit Realm RP and have an understanding of what it is IC. It's RP'd as the root of all things, taking it over would (In my view) mean taking over every spirit in the game, including yet not limited to. The Forest, People(adventurer and denizen), animals, monsters, dragons, planets, rocks, cities, everyone who has died permanently, undead, demons, angels, the realm of chaos, creation itself, the gods, etc...etc...etc....

    Unless of course the people who make the game decided on what a spirit truly is and made it make sense everything would become a faction of Night/Darkness and I would just lol myself to another game because of how ridiculous that sounds. 

    Alchemists can easily lead a group with Twilight/Ourania and gain control of the anchors, it's just that easy. Sure the other cities would be mad but turn things such as Phasing and Wormholes over to Twilight and BAM now you have a class which is ready to be a "Dark Knight" class for when trade skills are separated and you have a priestish class(Alchemists) for trade skill separation as well.

    Wei
  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Asmodron said:
    Jules said:

    The bitching would be too loud, and to be fair, some of it would probably be legitimate, as all of the currently non-factional classes really have been just that for a very, very long time, without even a pretense of factional obligation.  , Cyrene and Hashan really do need our own cool classes though, just like all of the other kids.  By my count, we really should both get at least two, and at least one of those should have powerful strategic skills, but it's not like admin can just crank out new classes.  Or hell, maybe admin will just wade in and re-designate some classes with grandfathering for those who don't want to move (which a fair few will also hate, as there seems to be a decent sized contingent that is anti-grandfathering too).  

    Just to clarify here to the masses, the concept of a 'factional class being cool' doesnt just manifest from thin air. A factional class is made based on the IDEA and THEME of that faction. Take occultists, chaos and its evolution into oblivion is one of the biggest and most flavorful aspect Achaea has ever developed. There are pages upon pages of Achaean events and lore that devoted to the very concept. If the entire theme and idea of chaos was not so developed, then the occultist class wouldnt be such a big player to begin with it, combat aside. Take Mhaldor and Shallam/Targossas as well. Evil and Good have been big themes and players (good having a rocky journey admittedly) and so the classes and factions developed from such causes have the flavor and fun backing them.


    The problem with Hashan and Cyrene isnt a factional class, nor would a factional class solve their problem. The problem is theme and idea. Fix that first, and -then- you could produce your herald class to unleash on the world.


    Peace.


    I just have to say, I personally have never seen anything wrong with Cyrene that was anywhere near the scale of Hashan. Although I agree that throwing a class into Hashan and making it factional definitely won't solve their problems, it will just give them more players to make miserable and who will quit the game. I literally thought that was what the admins were trying not to have people do (quit the game because their miserable) 

    I'm also pretty sure the players made Occultist RP what it is now, definitely on Oblivion, I mean I surely don't remember Babel being a thing before. Eris was once a player, I'm told, who became a goddess of Chaos. Shaman RPers should have some input if they are going to force us to join the city of wtf is this, I know most people would prefer that Bluef and I quit but I do have fun in this game and I would like to play it and if the admins want me to quit I am very sure they know all they have to do is ask me to. 

    I know the majority of you don't give a shit wtf happens to Shaman, this is because your either not playing the class or probably have a Hashani Shaman alt. Serpents would be pissed if Hashan gained them as a factional class just like the current Shaman would be if the same was done to them. Sure I sit here and say Alchemists for Hashan, but that is because in my view, and in the other cities, the players who play these classes usually just do it to use Transmutation and Transmutation is a trade skill that is being split off from the class sometime after the Renaissance (Or so I understood it that way). This will open those people up to being whatever class they want for whatever reason, and not just to make cures for their city. Which can open it up to being a factional class since those who want to make cures for their cities can just get the new trade skill. 

    ShirszaePraxides
  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,309 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Its kind of hilarious how you're dead set against Shaman becoming Hashan's faction class but you're totally fine with serpent doing it, which was (at last count) by far the most played class.

    image
    AsmodronAchimrstShirszaePraxides
  • ElcryionElcryion Member Posts: 9
    Jukilian said:
    Sorry for using my imagination. :(

    Imagination is fine. Your class proposal sounds cool, actually. But a whole new class would mean the Admin having to code in 3 new skills (unless they just take 3 skills existing skills), which is not as easy as it may sound. Not to mention having an event to herald the new class (unless Twilight just goes, 'Boom, new class 4 u Hashan').

  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    Asmodron said:
    Jules said:

    The bitching would be too loud, and to be fair, some of it would probably be legitimate, as all of the currently non-factional classes really have been just that for a very, very long time, without even a pretense of factional obligation.  , Cyrene and Hashan really do need our own cool classes though, just like all of the other kids.  By my count, we really should both get at least two, and at least one of those should have powerful strategic skills, but it's not like admin can just crank out new classes.  Or hell, maybe admin will just wade in and re-designate some classes with grandfathering for those who don't want to move (which a fair few will also hate, as there seems to be a decent sized contingent that is anti-grandfathering too).  

    Just to clarify here to the masses, the concept of a 'factional class being cool' doesnt just manifest from thin air. A factional class is made based on the IDEA and THEME of that faction. Take occultists, chaos and its evolution into oblivion is one of the biggest and most flavorful aspect Achaea has ever developed. There are pages upon pages of Achaean events and lore that devoted to the very concept. If the entire theme and idea of chaos was not so developed, then the occultist class wouldnt be such a big player to begin with it, combat aside. Take Mhaldor and Shallam/Targossas as well. Evil and Good have been big themes and players (good having a rocky journey admittedly) and so the classes and factions developed from such causes have the flavor and fun backing them.


    The problem with Hashan and Cyrene isnt a factional class, nor would a factional class solve their problem. The problem is theme and idea. Fix that first, and -then- you could produce your herald class to unleash on the world.


    Peace.


    I frankly meant this purely in the sense of having unique and powerful abilities that are useful in situations like raids.  As noted, Cyrene isn't broken in the way that some feel Hashan is in any case.  We just need our own special toolbox of abilities like everyone else has.  

  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jacen said:
    Its kind of hilarious how you're dead set against Shaman becoming Hashan's faction class but you're totally fine with serpent doing it, which was (at last count) by far the most played class.

    It's also funny that it seems the only people who want Shaman to be Hashan's factional class are people who aren't Shamans. I still have yet to see a Shaman be for that.

    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

    AchimrstBluefShirszae
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 3,114 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Kayeil said:
    Jacen said:
    Its kind of hilarious how you're dead set against Shaman becoming Hashan's faction class but you're totally fine with serpent doing it, which was (at last count) by far the most played class.

    It's also funny that it seems the only people who want Shaman to be Hashan's factional class are people who aren't Shamans. I still have yet to see a Shaman be for that.

    It's because they dont exist.

  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited June 2014
    Jacen said:
    Its kind of hilarious how you're dead set against Shaman becoming Hashan's faction class but you're totally fine with serpent doing it, which was (at last count) by far the most played class.

    I would be for Shaman going to Hashan, if Hashan wasn't one of the worst cities in the game and didn't metagame everyone who joined it. I can at least hope @Twilight won't support the metagaming community as former unmentioned patrons have in the past.

    Edit: Yet at this point in time I don't think adding city enemies and people who just don't want to be there, to the city would just make it worse. 

    Do you want a worse city? 

    Do you @Jacen or anyone else in Hashan think that adding Bluef and me would help Hashan in any particular way?

    How exactly are Shaman supposed to fix what Night and Darkness are?

    How do you think having a bunch of Shaman who don't want to be in the city is going to make the city better?

  • ElcryionElcryion Member Posts: 9
    edited June 2014

    I currently play a Shaman, and I'm all for Shaman being Hashan's factional class. Go go Dark Spirits go!

    For the Shamans who don't want to go Hashan but want to stay Shaman: see Devotionists who don't want to go Targossas and Necromancers who don't want to go Mhaldor. Bonus: Occultists who don't want to join the House.

    It wouldn't be too far-fetched to turn Shamans into a Night faction class. The class help file already says 'they embrace darkness more readily'. All the class needs is a little push. It can be argued that the same goes for Alchemists, due to the involvement of Twilight in the class's opening event.


    Here we go, proper quotes from HELP CLASS SHAMAN:

    "Drawing their strength from the darker side of mysticism, the class of Shamans is not inherently aligned with any ethos. However, they tend to draw those who embrace the secrets of the shadows more readily than the light."


  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Elcryion said:

    I currently play a Shaman, and I'm all for Shaman being Hashan's factional class. Go go Dark Spirits go!

    For the Shamans who don't want to go Hashan but want to stay Shaman: see Devotionists who don't want to go Targossas and Necromancers who don't want to go Mhaldor. Bonus: Occultists who don't want to join the House.

    It wouldn't be too far-fetched to turn Shamans into a Night faction class. The class help file already says 'they embrace darkness more readily'. All the class needs is a little push. It can be argued that the same goes for Alchemists, due to the involvement of Twilight in the class's opening event.


    Here we go, proper quotes from HELP CLASS SHAMAN:

    "Drawing their strength from the darker side of mysticism, the class of Shamans is not inherently aligned with any ethos. However, they tend to draw those who embrace the secrets of the shadows more readily than the light."


    How long have you been a Shaman? If you would look back we have been over the darker side of mysticism before... Shadows are not the dark side of mysticism IMO, and they don't really embrace shadows...where did you get that from?

  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited June 2014
    Elcryion said:

    I currently play a Shaman, and I'm all for Shaman being Hashan's factional class. Go go Dark Spirits go!

    For the Shamans who don't want to go Hashan but want to stay Shaman: see Devotionists who don't want to go Targossas and Necromancers who don't want to go Mhaldor. Bonus: Occultists who don't want to join the House.

    It wouldn't be too far-fetched to turn Shamans into a Night faction class. The class help file already says 'they embrace darkness more readily'. All the class needs is a little push. It can be argued that the same goes for Alchemists, due to the involvement of Twilight in the class's opening event.


    Here we go, proper quotes from HELP CLASS SHAMAN:

    "Drawing their strength from the darker side of mysticism, the class of Shamans is not inherently aligned with any ethos. However, they tend to draw those who embrace the secrets of the shadows more readily than the light."


    I'm not going to re-hash the entire argument that has already been made that the majority of shamans reside outside Hashan. It's been stated and re-stated already in the House Renaissance thread. I only bring it up here and now to draw the distinction between Devotionalists and Necromancers, which do/did already reside in a larger majority in their respective cities. 

    Dark spirits like the wlo (the spirits the Spirit Walkers interact with) are only one kind of spirit in Achaea. Shamans, and anyone who roleplays a shamanic persona (that's right! you don't have to take the class to be a ROLEPLAYED practitioner and interact with spirits) in the game, do not necessarily have anything to do with Darkness. 

    Are forest spirits, water spirits, nightmare spirits, or any of the other kind of known spirits in any way "Dark" for example? No. 

    Are the shaman of Aran'riod, Kamleikan, Aerathian Fall, or any other village in Achaea embracing "Darkness" because they have a shamanic leader or practitioner? No. 

    The only denizen shamanic practitioners that even remotely align with Darkness might be the ogre, orc and buckawn witchdoctors because of their dabbling in necromancy. I only say this because of the Thoth/Twilight conflict, etc. by the way. It's not intended to start an argument about whether Twilight or Darkness has anything to do with death magicks IC.

    That is why it is absolutely farfetched for shamans to become such a factional class. 

    The darker side of Mysticism does not equal Darkness. It is a way of phrasing that those who take the profession of shamanism as a class can call upon the spirit to curse as well as heal others -- but roleplay-wise curses and such is probably more often experienced as a means of self-defense, not an aggressiveness or eagerness for Darkness or anything related to it. 

    One of the great things about being a shaman or jester is that you can really conceptualize your character any way you want to. I'm a bit concerned about the minimizing of that if either class were to gain a factionalized nature. 

    What really confuses me about the concept of Night is that, at least on these forums, it is almost solely focused at the moment on Darkness. Yes, the night is dark and full of terrors (Game of Thrones, yay!) but it also illuminated by the Moon and enlightened by Dreams. If the current arrangement of House patrons continues (a member of the former Supernal Triad each patroning one of the Houses), I'd hope that the City could do more than focus on one aspect of the theme. 

    I credit @Vayne and @Eiredhel for the good things going on with Hashan in this vein already. 

    AchimrstShirszaeJonathin
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,373 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Elcryion said:

    I currently play a Shaman, and I'm all for Shaman being Hashan's factional class. Go go Dark Spirits go!

    For the Shamans who don't want to go Hashan but want to stay Shaman: see Devotionists who don't want to go Targossas and Necromancers who don't want to go Mhaldor. Bonus: Occultists who don't want to join the House.

    It wouldn't be too far-fetched to turn Shamans into a Night faction class. The class help file already says 'they embrace darkness more readily'. All the class needs is a little push. It can be argued that the same goes for Alchemists, due to the involvement of Twilight in the class's opening event.


    Here we go, proper quotes from HELP CLASS SHAMAN:

    "Drawing their strength from the darker side of mysticism, the class of Shamans is not inherently aligned with any ethos. However, they tend to draw those who embrace the secrets of the shadows more readily than the light."


    It actually would be different, because all those classes you mentioned have very definitive ties to the factions that are in no way comparable to whatever shaman currently has in either skill or fluff that might tie it to Darkness.  Sure, they could be 'pushed' . But anything could be 'pushed' in whatever direction, so thats not saying much. 

    I just honestly think if the time ever comes, Alchemist is in a better position to be swooped. The institute is there, the associations with the moon and astronomy, etc... Whatever Shaman could provide is scant in comparison.  

    Personally, I am of the opinion that if they are to be given a factional class, it should be a new one, and not any of the pre-existing ones. Be them shaman, serpents, or alchemists. 

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    AchimrstBluef
  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,309 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    +1 for Alchemists for Hashan. Space is cool as shit.

    image
    ShirszaeAchimrstBluefWei
Sign In to Comment.