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Further ideas for "no-brainer" starter packages for newbies

AalmAalm Member Posts: 206 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

My apologies if I am coming up with too many ideas in too little time. Also my apologies if this is in the wrong section.

We have quite a bit of content designed to make a novice's life easier. For example, the first 1000 credits bound to a character yield 2.5 lessons per, leveling to a certain level gives credit rewards, and now we have two packages of 1000 lessons for a little price.

I think there's a couple things that could continue this trend.

One, make a permanently-available credit package that yields a sizeable credit quantity for a great value, but make that package only available once or twice per player email, same as the no-brainer lesson package. I think in addition to buying lessons, people might want to invest in artefacts early on, and this would allow them to "start out" but not to such an extent that would cut into sales for IRE.

Two, expand the series of artefact packages to be sold during the periodic promotions where artie packages are sold. I think it's generally accepted that each class has a few "priority" artefacts that are more important to that class than others. For example, for Priest, it has been told to me to be Shield of Absorption, tuning fork and a lvl 3 artie mace. So, create a series of such packages that combine priority arties for a given class and allow people to buy them during the package promotions at a discount comparable to the rate of discount for the artefact packages that already exist for that promotion. I don't think these are "no-brainer" packages in the sense that the 10 dollar 1000 lesson packages are. But I think they would sell very well,  and allow starting characters the artefacts they most need at a reasonable discount.

Again, sorry if I am putting up too much content. Hope my idea wasn't stupid.

Comments

  • AalmAalm Member Posts: 206 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited May 2014

    @Klendathu : the lvl 3 weapon is not in a no-brainer package, I suggested it as a part of the currently existing package series in the right promotion. If you can buy a Veil and a Gem for I believe 435 dollars, or buy a single Soulpiercer in another package, what's wrong with a series of packages designed to equip the various classes with certain artefacts desirable to them? The packages in that promotion give a good discount, but not at the no-brainer level. They're simply options with a NORMAL discount for that promotion. I am sorry if I implied otherwise.

  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,249 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Artifacts aren't necessary to function. Skills are (to an extent). It could be easier still to gain lessons, but the no brainer package was a good step in the right direction. I'd rather see a static CFS market for people below a certain level for example
  • AalmAalm Member Posts: 206 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited May 2014

    @Jovolo : right, artefacts are not necessary to function. But IRE kinda depends on us buying them to continue to exist. If you're giving a discount on a certain grouping, what is the reason not to give a similar discount to another grouping? The player gets some arties good for his or her class at a reasonable discount, IRE gets a sizeable sale. I am not sure who is getting hurt by this.

  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Tbh, this is an idea that benefits mid-to-high tier players much, much, much more than it benefits newbies. Why would a newbie priest, to use your example, want a tuning fork when, after the 2,000 lesson package and getting to Logosian will net him/her only two transcendent skills? A tuning fork is mainly a pvp object, and there's a wealth of things that should come first (namely, transcendence in other skills). If you really want to help newbies out, lessons are pretty much the way to go; apart from your three class skills (though, admittedly, many classes only require two), you'll still want to trans survival, avoidance, fitness if you're an endurance using class or philosophy if you're a willpower using class, and maybe something like riding or tattoos. Priority's misplaced here, I feel.

    Sylvance
  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 476 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    I started a newbie, bought the 2000 lessons and have 2 trans skills and insomnia in survival by level 70 (that is with like 2 weeks of 5 lessons a day too though). In any class with a trade skill that is pretty close to combat ready now that expensive focus isn't trans survival. Could everything be free? Yes, that would be great for me. Terrible for IRE though. It seems pretty good compromise that maintains a decent starting place for new players while also incentivising them to spend more if they really want to get into PvP.

  • AalmAalm Member Posts: 206 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    Alright, you guys don't like the artefact packages idea.

    @Klendathu , @Jovolo , @Anedhel , @Accipiter

    What about the idea of a single or two-time buy for a credit package at a vastly-lower-than-normal price, in the spirit of the No-Brainer lesson package? No lvl 3 artefacts or Veil or whatever, just a batch of credits for a novice to do with as they please?

  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    It kind of sounds like you're just wanting to get cheap credits at this point. If you really want to help newbies, then the way to do it, I would think, is to up the amount of lessons you get in the Elite program for the first, oh, I don't know, three months of membership for a character.

    As for cheap credits, tbh, there's a reason Achaea works so hard to come up with promotions people'll buy into, and that's because they do -not- like credits discounted. They'll give you more, they'll do Mayan Crowns, they'll do talismans, etc. etc., but I don't think cheap credits are on the horizon- especially not if it just comes across as someone wanting to get them cheaper than normal for no reason.

  • AalmAalm Member Posts: 206 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited May 2014
    Anedhel said:

    It kind of sounds like you're just wanting to get cheap credits at this point. If you really want to help newbies, then the way to do it, I would think, is to up the amount of lessons you get in the Elite program for the first, oh, I don't know, three months of membership for a character.

    As for cheap credits, tbh, there's a reason Achaea works so hard to come up with promotions people'll buy into, and that's because they do -not- like credits discounted. They'll give you more, they'll do Mayan Crowns, they'll do talismans, etc. etc., but I don't think cheap credits are on the horizon- especially not if it just comes across as someone wanting to get them cheaper than normal for no reason.

    @Anedhel : Well, I am one of those players that has lvl 3 everything, 50 obfuscated vials (3 crowns each,) 22 stone flowerpots (5 crowns each) pet, multiple auction artefacts, etc. I am not bragging, I actually think myself kinda stupid and more than a bit insane for having charged up that much, but my point is no, I am not trying to get cheap credits for myself. I just think Achaea is a great game, and I also think by far the most common criticism by those starting out is that credits are very expensive, and I HAVE seen multiple thoughtful newcomer players with tons of potential quit at the novice stage because of this.

    There's people that have characters with over 200 years on them that play very well with no artefacts because they managed to get past this. I think more such players have one or two treasured artefacts that they've put to good use and enjoy the game that much more because of it. I realize IRE cannot sell credits for nothing, but I think if we could fortify those thoughtful newcomer players with a couple nice items via a one-time cheap credit package and that'll make them into 200 year old characters that manage quite well with a couple artefacts, then for IRE and the playerbase it will have been worth it.

    I think it might be a good idea to make a character have to be like lvl 80 to be able to buy the starter credit package(s), so that they DO make an educated decision about them rather than splurging on something they later find was not optimal. If they're only going to have a couple arties, they should be careful about what they choose.

  • VerdVerd Member Posts: 25 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I'd like there to be three lesson packages per character, but I just want survival.
    Aerek
  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    S'more reliable to incentivize them to stick with a steady expenditure. What you're suggesting about spending too many credits is actually mitigated with the IRE elite, because you can stop paying for it any time you don't need any more credits. The fact that the exp bonus comes with it means it's -very- good for newcomers, since perhaps the hardest obstacle in the way of getting into Achaea is 'grinding', and that helps with that. I honestly don't just think cheap credits is the way to get people to stay- the people who'll buy cheap credits are people who already play Achaea anyways.

    Sylvance
  • AalmAalm Member Posts: 206 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited May 2014
    Anedhel said:

    S'more reliable to incentivize them to stick with a steady expenditure. What you're suggesting about spending too many credits is actually mitigated with the IRE elite, because you can stop paying for it any time you don't need any more credits. The fact that the exp bonus comes with it means it's -very- good for newcomers, since perhaps the hardest obstacle in the way of getting into Achaea is 'grinding', and that helps with that. I honestly don't just think cheap credits is the way to get people to stay- the people who'll buy cheap credits are people who already play Achaea anyways.

    @Anedhel : I think the problem is acclimation. Experienced players know you can't replace skill with artefacts, and while people think I could be good at PK in theory, I am in reality a non-comm who wouldn't last 6 seconds against somebody like Iakimen or Tynil. True novices generally look at the prices, assume that people with items that cost so much are "superior" and get discouraged and quit. I think if they stick around for a bit they'll have a more clear perspective on things and we'll keep them. This game is more about brains than about money. But it may be difficult to see this when you're brand-new and you're looking at the Credits page, where 300 credits costs $100 dollars and 2000 costs $570.

    I agree that Elite is by far the best source of credits and other stuff. If you're at the 150 cr/rl month cap, you're getting credits at 16.6 cents per, and if there's a more favorable package, I am not aware of it. However newcomers may not wish the commitment Elite implies, (it's a subscription that takes some months to reach optimal levels,) whereas a one-time package has no commitment. It doesn't have to be something ridiculous like 2000 credits for a much-reduced price. If it were 500 or 750 for a reduced price, that still might be good.

    Maybe you're right, maybe this is a bad idea. But I HAVE seen those people with potential quit because they see people with credits, they don't feel they can get credits and then they leave. I don't think Achaea is about credits, and I think the trick is to get the newcomers to realize this rather than quitting. If they do that, they probably WILL get the Elite, which in time will fix them up with the stuff they need anyway.

  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean

    I like the first part of this idea.  Allow each character to buy up to X amount of BOUND credits once (say 250-350?) at around .20-21 cents per credit, which is the price per credit you'd achieve if you had a 30% credit sale, Iron Elite and bought an absolute LOAD of credits.  I started with what is technically a 4000 credit package price of 28 cents - the only better price is the 5000 credit package at 27 credits.

    Aalm
  • TarazaTaraza Member Posts: 206 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Every so often @Tecton and the other admins come up with promotions for each month, they have had artefact packages to be included in these promotions.

    That being said, I don't think its necessary to have these.constantly available. Artefacts are nice but really they do not make someone skilled in combat, practice does.

    I have often said that a majority of times combative artefacts provide more imbalances than anything.

    As for novices perhaps give the offer of two months free elite or something similar to get them a boost. Don't forget of the new lesson packages which are awesome.

    Perhaps there will be more in the fire. Keep in mind that there is still a lot of though into the novices of Achaea. Keep posted. Keep coming up with ideas. Also keep having fun.
    image



    Aalm
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean

    That's true Jurixe.  Honestly, if they did the sort of "one time great deal" for credits that's being bandied about, it would be more about encouraging players to make an initial significant (but not huge) credit purchase than anything else.  

  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,335 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The newer players who artie up before learning to fight normally never learn how to actually fight and rely on their artefacts to win for them.

    SherazadKeiWessux
  • KuyKuy Member Posts: 1,497 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Cooper said:
    The newer players who artie up before learning to fight normally never learn how to actually fight and rely on their artefacts to win for them.

    Or just go splat and give up.

    [2:41:24 AM] Kenway: I bet you smell like evergreen trees and you could wrestle boreal mammals but they'd rather just cuddle you
    Sylvance
  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,506 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Cooper said:
    The newer players who artie up before learning to fight normally never learn how to actually fight and rely on their artefacts to win for them.

    Quit hatin' :(

    Sylvance
  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!Member Posts: 3,107 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited May 2014

    tbh I agree with @Cooper, I never bothered to learn to fight normally as a Magi, and now I'm just a LOLDAMAGE magi that goes "BUTTONBUTTONBUTTONMASHING!" while sitting there going :

     

    (just ask @Kafziel! I was too busy bashing loldamage buttons to interrupt his escapes)

    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

    Lucine
  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,506 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited May 2014
    Iocun said:
    Cooper said:
    The newer players who artie up before learning to fight normally never learn how to actually fight and rely on their artefacts to win for them.

    Quit hatin' :(

    As a serious response however: you can't just rely on artefacts to win. You can rely on artefacts to win against people that are equally good or even somewhat better than you, but you can't use them to bridge unlimited gaps of ability. To be somewhat successful with artefacts, you'll at least need some basic knowledge/ability in combat, and to be great with artefacts, you need to have a very good knowledge/ability. That means that if they want to become more successful, they still need to increase their combat abilities. Do some of them decide against this and happily stagnate on the same level? Sure, but that applies to people without arties just as much.

    In the end, whether one "learns to fight" or not is merely a question of mindset. I don't think that your "power level" (lessons, arties, level) has that great an effect on your mindset, although it may be true that it may take someone with a great initial advantage of arties a longer time for this mindset to result in him getting serious about combat practice.

  • JukilianJukilian Member Posts: 1,579 @ - Epic Achaean
    Tharvis said:

    tbh I agree with @Cooper, I never bothered to learn to fight normally as a Magi, and now I'm just a LOLDAMAGE magi that goes "BUTTONBUTTONBUTTONMASHING!" while sitting there going :

     

    (just ask @Kafziel! I was too busy bashing loldamage buttons to interrupt his escapes)

    Hopefully won't be the case for me..

  • WessuxWessux ChattanoogaMember Posts: 517 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Reading how much people have spent on credits is making me sick to my stomach. Some of these people have spent more than my sports car is worth.

    But as long has they sell them on CFS for good prices I'll get over it!!!
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
    Sylvance
  • KyrraKyrra AustraliaMember Posts: 4,872 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I could have bought a new car or two, or put a deposit down for a house with the amount I've spent on IRE over the last 2-3 years. Spent a fair bit on Lusternia too :P
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

  • WessuxWessux ChattanoogaMember Posts: 517 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    > @Kyrra said:
    > I could have bought a new car or two, or put a deposit down for a house with the amount I've spent on IRE over the last 2-3 years. Spent a fair bit on Lusternia too :P

    Share with this poor man. I'm sure I could put them to good use.
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
    Kyrra
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