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Artefact crossbows and development of the crossbow as a weapon

AalmAalm Member Posts: 206 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

As I understand it, Knights have the ability to use crossbows, but I've never seen the weapon used. I am not sure if it's effective, but it certainly does not seem popular.

As I recall from people debating weapons, crossbows can hold their own against bows in usefulness. It's standard sacrifice in speed for attack strength. Also, as I recall, thief-types can use crossbows, and sneaky serpents can probably use the crossbow to backstab -- it COMES loaded, so the mechanism seems the same as a backstab because you just sneak up, get in position and unload the weapon. There's probably other uses as well -- for example, it could be made to partially ignore armor. (Artefact bows could be better and better and better at this by artefact weapon level.)

So, I was hoping to propose a crossbow equivalent of the darkbow ability, a development of crossbows to be equally good as bows balance-wise by being stronger but slower in a way that makes them worthwhile, and the introduction of three Artefact crossbows built on this premise.


Comments

  • DaslinDaslin The place with the oxygenMember Posts: 2,492 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Gwawr used to, a long time ago.

  • NellaundraNellaundra Member Posts: 1,556 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Crossbows just don't have the speed to compete with darkbows/artie bows. That's the entire thing. It's the same issue as rapiers vs scimitar or battleaxe, but the crossbows just don't have the raw hurt that the axes do that make them semi viable over rapiers at times.

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  • AalmAalm Member Posts: 206 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited May 2014

    Crossbows just don't have the speed to compete with darkbows/artie bows. That's the entire thing. It's the same issue as rapiers vs scimitar or battleaxe, but the crossbows just don't have the raw hurt that the axes do that make them semi viable over rapiers at times.

    @Nellaundra : right, but if they were modified to make up for the speed detriment by raw power in various ways maybe more people would use the weapon.

    There's ways to represent raw power other than just the damage -- the weapon could stun or as I mentioned ignore armor, in addition to envenom. And maybe other things.

  • ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

    The last thing today's Achaea needs is bows that stun.

    "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


          Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
        SylvanceRangorCooper
      1. AalmAalm Member Posts: 206 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
        Ernam said:

        The last thing today's Achaea needs is bows that stun.

        Alrighty, scratch that idea. Maybe something else would work, though.

      2. SenaSena Member Posts: 3,954 @@ - Legendary Achaean

        Crossbows have the exact same speed as longbows and darkbows. Only artefact bows have different speeds. The only disadvantage of a crossbow is lower accuracy, and the fact that there are no artefact versions (and artefact bows do more damage than crossbows).

        Arador
      3. AalmAalm Member Posts: 206 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
        Sena said:

        Crossbows have the exact same speed as longbows and darkbows. Only artefact bows have different speeds. The only disadvantage of a crossbow is lower accuracy, and the fact that there are no artefact versions (and artefact bows do more damage than crossbows).

        Isn't that kinda weird though? By the way the weapons are loaded, readied to attack, and fired, them having the same speed and damage seems odd to me.

      4. BlujixapugBlujixapug Member Posts: 1,833 @@ - Legendary Achaean

        As long as Crossbows are a worse version of Darkbows gained earlier in the skill, they will always become obsolete. They'll only be used by people who either don't have the Darkbows ability yet, or by the tiny minority who think crossbows are super stylish and totally go with their trenchcoat, buckle hat, and silver witchfinder's lantern. Same problem faced by abilities like Wildcat and Jackdaw in Metamorphosis.

        You could add more variables to bow types to differentiate crossbows: speed, damage, damage type, range, accuracy. You could allow crossbows to fire new arrow types, make them stronger at shorter range, let them be used on a target within the same room. But is that worth it? You'd be giving arbitrary buffs to an aspect of classes that is already strong, and needlessly complicating the bow mechanic purely to justify the cosmetic difference between crossbows and darkbows.

        IMO if you want to make crossbows more of a signature weapon, and stop them from being overshadowed by darkbows, then take crossbows away from serps and knights and give them exclusively to a new class. Preferably the pirate class . You could make darkbows serp-only, and crossbows knight-only, but that seems like a pretty bad idea.

        image
        AalmCooperShirszaeErnam
      5. SenaSena Member Posts: 3,954 @@ - Legendary Achaean

        Crossbows aren't made obsolete by darkbows, the higher damage on crossbows is pretty significant. If you're a serpent with the marksman trait, the accuracy probably won't be a problem either in most cases, so it's worth carrying around both a crossbow and darkbow (until you get an artefact bow, which does make crossbows obsolete).

        The only change I'd make is to allow artefact crossbows, even if they have the same stats as artefact bows and are only cosmetically different (because I'm not sure we need something with even more damage than Lupine Bows).

        BlujixapugAalmErnamKresslack
      6. SylvanceSylvance Member Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
        I'd be surprised if Bows vs. Crossbows didn't get some attention in the weaponry overhaul that's coming.

        Tvistor: If that was a troll, it was masterful.
        I take my hat off to you.
      7. BlujixapugBlujixapug Member Posts: 1,833 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Synbios said:

        ...or by the tiny minority who think crossbows are super stylish and totally go with their trenchcoat, buckle hat, and silver witchfinder's lantern.

        I don't know, Blujixapug‌ : a buckled hat with a rosariuswitchfinder lantern may be nice

        Yeah I realised immediately after typing it that I would totally play that class.

        Also thank you @Sena for proving me wrong!

        image
      8. KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 5,927 @@ - Legendary Achaean

        I always used a crossbow over a darkbow, and have aim to have my current ranger's bow customised into a crossbow. For me, I found them worth it, and even noticed a slight damage increase between crossbows and darkbows based on my testing. I mainly used it as an RP mechanic of being a soldier, in the fact that crossbows are often more compact and easily carried by such personnel. 



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