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Big change to acquiring skills coming

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  • FlorentinoFlorentino Member Posts: 516
    I bet there are going to be a lot of alts created by established players as well, since you can get an alt up to dual-trans much, much more easily after just buying the 2000 lessons and bashing to 80. 
    TharvisAveriKyrtonSylvance
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Come to think of this, how's it looking on the financial end, @Sarapis? Has this been beneficial?
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,241 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Lmao, of course it has! That was basically the entire reason - almost everyone that plays would have spent 20 bucks on the lessons because by Achaea-standards, it's a good deal. It's not really good in terms of longevity because of the limit, but pretty sure it was intended as a quick buck/slight help to future players.
  • ShadracShadrac Denton, TXMember Posts: 141 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Aehren said:
    Yeah, I bought two even though I was near omni-trans already because cheap lessons. I've since bought 7 (?) more for various people as gifts because they're cheap as hell and make people really, really happy, and that makes me happy. Best thing is I don't even check my bank account because "psh, $10" then my bills come and I curse the name Sarapis.
    I personally haven't bought myself any but immediately bought some for my mentor as she is kick-ass.

    It's so cheap that I don't even register it either.  Great gift.
    AehrenUtianima
  • SylvanceSylvance Member Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    Daeir said:
    Come to think of this, how's it looking on the financial end, Sarapis? Has this been beneficial?
    We won't know whether it's helping us or hurting us for a long time, and even then it'll be mostly guessing. The incremental revenue from $10 purchases is not really consequential though. The reason to try this isn't to get $20 from some of you - it's to make it easier for newbies to get into Achaea, hopefully turning them into considerably larger customers down the road. 
    I'll wager that it's also a good way of a) breaking that initial psychological barrier of paying for a 'free' game and, b) through the process of Effort Justification, those who do buy it will be more likely to stay on now that they've invested. Honestly, I just cannot see any way for IRE to 'lose' out of this.
    Tvistor: If that was a troll, it was masterful.
    I take my hat off to you.
    Kyriella
  • IseraIsera Member Posts: 10 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Speaking from the point of view of a newbie, I certainly was happy with it. It's hard to justify spending $100 for a game I've been playing a week, but this was a fun way to get involved. Only problem is now I want to transcend puppetry!
    TharvisSylvanceYae
  • EssandriEssandri Member Posts: 26

    Isera said:
    Speaking from the point of view of a newbie, I certainly was happy with it. It's hard to justify spending $100 for a game I've been playing a week, but this was a fun way to get involved. Only problem is now I want to transcend puppetry!


    Yes, I know it is only $10 or $20 for the package, but then why not another $25 for this, and $25 for that, and next thing you know, I'm spending $100's of dollars a year for a free game. I did this before, a few $$$ at a time, and at the end of a year, realized I had spent $1200 for perks in a free game.

    I'm sorry, but for this new player, I'm out of here. I started just before this package deal, and I knew it would be difficult to play this game for free and be able to do anything, but people assured me it might take a little longer, but it was still possible to play. I was enjoying the game, and spending a lot of hours, and I thought I was adding to the quality of the game world, and hoped to add even more in the future. Now, I see other newbies with 1000's of lessons, zipping past me, passing tests, surviving battles and gaining ranks, because they bought the skills. There is no way for me to ever catch up.
  • NakariNakari Member Posts: 596 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Essandri said:

    I'm sorry, but for this new player, I'm out of here. I started just before this package deal, and I knew it would be difficult to play this game for free and be able to do anything, but people assured me it might take a little longer, but it was still possible to play. I was enjoying the game, and spending a lot of hours, and I thought I was adding to the quality of the game world, and hoped to add even more in the future. Now, I see other newbies with 1000's of lessons, zipping past me, passing tests, surviving battles and gaining ranks, because they bought the skills. There is no way for me to ever catch up.
    there's no way that the lessons are correlating to house advancement short of some of the very combat specific houses. Requirements are based pretty universally off of things that the bought lessons couldn't possibly actually be helping with.


    Sylvance
  • AalmAalm Member Posts: 206 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited April 2014
    Essandri said:

    Isera said:
    Speaking from the point of view of a newbie, I certainly was happy with it. It's hard to justify spending $100 for a game I've been playing a week, but this was a fun way to get involved. Only problem is now I want to transcend puppetry!


    Yes, I know it is only $10 or $20 for the package, but then why not another $25 for this, and $25 for that, and next thing you know, I'm spending $100's of dollars a year for a free game. I did this before, a few $$$ at a time, and at the end of a year, realized I had spent $1200 for perks in a free game.

    I'm sorry, but for this new player, I'm out of here. I started just before this package deal, and I knew it would be difficult to play this game for free and be able to do anything, but people assured me it might take a little longer, but it was still possible to play. I was enjoying the game, and spending a lot of hours, and I thought I was adding to the quality of the game world, and hoped to add even more in the future. Now, I see other newbies with 1000's of lessons, zipping past me, passing tests, surviving battles and gaining ranks, because they bought the skills. There is no way for me to ever catch up.
    @Essandri : Most people don't blow tens of thousands of dollars on credits. Just sign up for the 25 dollar membership and don't buy anything else. Some number crunching: it starts at 100 cr per month and increases by 5 each month, capping at 150 a month. 150 x 12 months = 1800 cr per year. In five years (Achaea is a game which people DO play for five years or much longer) you got 9000 credits. If you are smart about what you buy and make a list of priorities, by the end of that five years you'll have most if not all artefacts that you could have wanted. And 25 dollars a month is on par with any pay game such as World of Warcraft. The membership also gives you 5 lessons a day and boosts your hunting experience gain to up to 25%. An extra one-time 20 bucks gets you that 2000 lessons, if you want, which with natural level progression should be most of what you need to tri-trans. There IS patience and self-control involved, but I don't think that's just an Achaea thing.

    That's just credits. Take into consideration that no crappy fighter with tons of arties can prevail over a combat master with nothing but his wits. Take also into consideration that the vast majority of this game is RP and you can be incredible in that without spending anything. Learning to fight and using your imagination will get you much further in Achaea than artefacts will.

    I understand it's frustrating to go to Delos and see items for 1600 credits. I am just saying, if you're careful and patient and resist the urge to splurge, you can make out just fine. I've played many games in my day, this is by far the best. That is why people spend on it -- if you're going to be on a game for 15 real years, you might just consider blowing some serious cash on it. But, again, you can make it without doing so.
  • RazhaRazha Member Posts: 108 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited April 2014
    Should make it so you can have enough to tri-trans by like... level 60. Maybe 3000 for $30 max, don't feel like the running the numbers. I think it would bring more money to the game cause you can get much better results from combat if you have access to all your class skills, which I think would encourage you to buy arties, instead of putzing around trying to finish transing while losing interest. Maybe I'm wrong, dunno.
  • AgriasAgrias WisconsinMember Posts: 223
    I started in 2002/2003. Yeah. Still playing. If that gives you any indication. I hate you for inventing the MUD equivalent to heroin, @Sarapis‌. Kind of...
    image
    Prythe
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Sylvance said:
    Sarapis said:
    Daeir said:
    Come to think of this, how's it looking on the financial end, Sarapis? Has this been beneficial?
    We won't know whether it's helping us or hurting us for a long time, and even then it'll be mostly guessing. The incremental revenue from $10 purchases is not really consequential though. The reason to try this isn't to get $20 from some of you - it's to make it easier for newbies to get into Achaea, hopefully turning them into considerably larger customers down the road. 
    I'll wager that it's also a good way of a) breaking that initial psychological barrier of paying for a 'free' game and, b) through the process of Effort Justification, those who do buy it will be more likely to stay on now that they've invested. Honestly, I just cannot see any way for IRE to 'lose' out of this.
    It devalues purchasing credits for lessons early on somewhat, which is where a significant proportion of credit sales originate from, probably. I obviously have no idea whether this is the case or not, but it's my first guess.
    Sarapis
  • EssandriEssandri Member Posts: 26
    5 years from now, now it won't make a difference. Thousands of players will by pass me in that time. But I'm not talking about 5 years from now. I'm not talking about credits. I'm talking about right now, today. To gain entrance to my house, I must advance in a clan. I need gold, I need items, and I need to survive before I can move up in rank. 1000 lessons represents 30 or 40 levels worth of training and would make it far easier for others to get ahead. I will need to grind for months in real time to overcome the skill differences. 

    Did I make a mistake by choosing the wrong house, the wrong clan, the wrong city? Maybe, but if this game is free-to-play, then I am important and valuable to the game because I spend time and effort making the game world grow. This game and others in the Iron Realm umbrella are "free to play".  If I am expected to pay $10 to $25 a month, then it is no longer  free to play. It is not even a facade. It is just plain false advertising.


  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Achaea is free to play, but in the sense that you can gain significant mechanical advantage through investing time (in the form of farming gold to buy credits) or money (flat out buying credits). You're never going to be charged for accessing it, at least, but other players will readily overtake you if they choose to make a substantial investment of either time or money, or perhaps even both.

    You can get trans in one skill quite easily these days just by bashing to 85, if I recall correctly, though that is a solid 60-80 hour time investment, perhaps even longer. If you want access to your class' full range of skills, then you're either shoehorned into buying the credits with real money to convert into lessons, or farming the gold to buy said credits from other players. The latter taking inordinate amounts of time performing an incredibly boring activity.

    That being said, full class transcendence is not required to be a big man as far as politics, roleplaying and worldbuilding goes. Plenty of people never even bother fully learning all their class skills and end up in positions of authority and the like. It just depends on what you want to do with the game, really.
    Sylvance
  • CrixosCrixos Member Posts: 49 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Achaea is free to play and likely always will be.  Compare, contrast this to true pay-to-play games (which require an active subscription, or, an initial upfront purchase.)  Achaea does not restrict your participation in any way mechanically.

    I have my doubts (or at least hope ) that the requirements for your house/clan require credits/lessons to be purchased.  Unless the Targossian(?) requirements differ from the status quo set by nearly all the houses I've looked at, you may be looking at it the wrong way.  I would be very concerned if players would simply not play/speak with you because of your might/skill.

    While yes, spending real money on credits/lessons is a great deal more convenient than "...grinding for months", this is the nature of this Achaea I've found.  It is free-to-play game, pay-for-convenience and, while arguable, for certain types of combat, pay-to-win (granted, this is also achievable via in-game grinding).
    Sylvance
  • OrvanOrvan Member Posts: 5
    There are really two sides to this. It is entirely possible to make your way through the game without spenting a real world cent. It'll take longer for sure but can be done. You can always go for a bashing class and gather up the in game gold to buy credits as well.

    I do kind of get where you're coming from though. I'm seriously considering starting a new character over from scratch in a different city. Then I look at the skills on my main and get wishy washy on just rping him into another city and class. Ill still have to drop some credits for class skills but keep my one Artie and transed skills outside of class. Then I realize how much effort that could be and not sure I really want to rp the transition out for weeks or months into a new city and house. Its laziness I know but I started a second job and really don't want to have go go an extra mile in game considering where the character is from.

    The aspect of starting over is kind of daunting though considering the lack of gold and lessons in other skills I've gotten used to and wonder which is more worthwhile. New character with time or money needing to be dumped. As someone with a pretty small disposable income for the near future I loom at credit prices and kind of cringe.

    I also realize how ridiculously frustrated I'd get being stolen from without the selfishness skill and all the new triggers and aliases I'd have to make if I don't spend any money.

    Sorry for the wall of text but I sort of understand both sides of the coin here. It can be done but damn if it doesn't make a lot of the game much easier with dropping the money for credits just for essential skills and not even counting the usefulness of arties.
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,926 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Aalm said:
    If you are smart about what you buy and make a list of priorities, by the end of that five years you'll have most if not all artefacts that you could have wanted.
    9000 credits, even less when you consider how many of those you'd be converting to lessons for skills, really doesn't buy you as much as you might think.

    Admittedly I have a tendency to want level three of any artefact I get, but having already spent somewhere in the region of 50,000 credits on artefacts, my list of things to buy is still about 7000-8000 credits.
  • KyrraKyrra AustraliaMember Posts: 4,861 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Level 3 or bust.
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

    SylvanceShadrac
  • TarazaTaraza Member Posts: 206 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    As for someone who has played this game for actually a decade now (Yes hard to believe that the time has passed that quickly) this is actually a fantastic idea. Most individuals do not want to spend much money on a game which is understandable, yet also gaining lessons and credits can be quite difficult. The credit based market is ridiculously high compared to that whenever I started the game in 2004. 

    The Elite membership is also a fantastic way for upcoming characters to gain lessons, bit of experience and also monthly credits, yet the two time 1,000 lesson packets top this by a bit mostly due to the convenience and cost of the package. I believe two maximum of the package is actually very fair in all things considering. 

    As anyone who knows how many times I have switched classes, I have spent quite a lot on credits just purely to change to a different class. (Not complaining)..and yes this is also on different characters not just as Taraza. 

    I don't currently need lessons but that may change in a month or so. We'll see what happens. 

    The only question I have for @Sarapis is how will this be handled by gifting the lesson packages to special recipients? I know that the credit packages may be handled in a similar way, but is  this tracked for outside purchases as gifts for other characters? Or will say me purchasing this for a friend actually count towards their limit? Just curiosity and clarity. 

    Anyways keep it up @Sarapis and @Tecton. I definitely look forward to future changes and what you guys have in store in the months to years to come. 




    image



  • TectonTecton The Garden of the GodsAdministrator Posts: 2,507 Admin
    Taraza said:
    As for someone who has played this game for actually a decade now (Yes hard to believe that the time has passed that quickly) this is actually a fantastic idea. Most individuals do not want to spend much money on a game which is understandable, yet also gaining lessons and credits can be quite difficult. The credit based market is ridiculously high compared to that whenever I started the game in 2004. 

    The Elite membership is also a fantastic way for upcoming characters to gain lessons, bit of experience and also monthly credits, yet the two time 1,000 lesson packets top this by a bit mostly due to the convenience and cost of the package. I believe two maximum of the package is actually very fair in all things considering. 

    As anyone who knows how many times I have switched classes, I have spent quite a lot on credits just purely to change to a different class. (Not complaining)..and yes this is also on different characters not just as Taraza. 

    I don't currently need lessons but that may change in a month or so. We'll see what happens. 

    The only question I have for @Sarapis is how will this be handled by gifting the lesson packages to special recipients? I know that the credit packages may be handled in a similar way, but is  this tracked for outside purchases as gifts for other characters? Or will say me purchasing this for a friend actually count towards their limit? Just curiosity and clarity. 

    Anyways keep it up @Sarapis and @Tecton. I definitely look forward to future changes and what you guys have in store in the months to years to come. 




    It counts on the recipient, so if they get two gift purchases, they can't get any more. If it worked the other way, would be far too easy to game the system!
  • TarazaTaraza Member Posts: 206 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Perfectly clear now. Thank you @Tecton ;
    image



  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 472 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    The complaint "I don't want to spend any money at all" isn't going to get you far. Achaea is a game where positive interactions can bring revenue of course, but as a newbie the chances of you causing someone to be a loyal paying customer is fairly low. The 1000 lesson price is about the same as most indie games on steam (outside of a sale) and the return on investment is theoretically huge, seeing as you can easily sink hundreds of hours into the game with those $10 spent and nothing else.
    SarapisAlexandre
  • AalmAalm Member Posts: 206 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Agrias said:
    I started in 2002/2003. Yeah. Still playing. If that gives you any indication. I hate you for inventing the MUD equivalent to heroin, @Sarapis‌. Kind of...
    @Agrias : It's not just the MUD equivalent of heroin. It's a heroin delivery system hardwired straight into your bloodstream.
    AlexandreAgrias
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