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Factional Classes For Hashan And Cyrene

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  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Bluef said:

    I'm actually fond of the idea of shamans becoming a faction class.


    Blitch you crazy if you think Shaman being faction is a good idea. Could you imagine Howdin, you and myself in Hashan? I would turn into a giant trolly griefy mess from all the fighting with the Hashani leadership which I do already! All we would hear is, "you have to be evil and serve darkness. Sing the praises of Darkness and lies which makes no sense because we are lying." I have spoken to many Ex-Hashani and the one thing they complain about consistently is the lying problem in Hashan and the covering up of the lying and the elaborate ways they go about covering up the lying......Oh! and the catching them in the lie only get a giant news post or response about how that lie was a lie and OMG I would explode from WTF am I doing here.
    Bluef
  • JovoloJovolo Member Posts: 3,339 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Dude, as has been said many times over "Being factionalized" doesn't translate to "Force all Shaman into Hashan", it just means that you can no longer seek citizenship as a Shaman in any other city. You can be a rogue and play in your Curia clan if you like. 

    Now that's entirely a different problem as to whether or not it should actually be Shaman's that Hashan gets, or if Hashan should even get one to themselves at all - but no one is trying to force any shamans to go and play in Hashan again. If anything, I'm pretty sure all of Hashan doesn't even want this considering who they would be getting back (not exactly conducive to a constructive environment to help them get back on their feet).
    Tharvis
  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2014
    Jovolo said:
    Dude, as has been said many times over "Being factionalized" doesn't translate to "Force all Shaman into Hashan", it just means that you can no longer seek citizenship as a Shaman in any other city. You can be a rogue and play in your Curia clan if you like. 

    Now that's entirely a different problem as to whether or not it should actually be Shaman's that Hashan gets, or if Hashan should even get one to themselves at all - but no one is trying to force any shamans to go and play in Hashan again. If anything, I'm pretty sure all of Hashan doesn't even want this considering who they would be getting back (not exactly conducive to a constructive environment to help them get back on their feet).
    It does if you don't want to get enemied because the city calls all Shaman into the city to promote darkness. Such as what Mhaldor did with Apostates which was another class I was while in Hashan and had to change because I didn't want to get Anathemized for defending the city or it being revealed that I was an apostate to Mhaldor.

    Edit:
    #AlchemistsforHashan :P
    Bluef
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Finchy said:

    One thing that isn't mutable kids is the stalin-like grip of the current deities in charge of Good and their stranglehold over that really pretty decent skillset called devotion. I think their names are kindle and nairahtnepton or something.
    Nailed it.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
    AchimrstElainaBluef
  • ElainaElaina Member Posts: 23 ✭✭ - Stalwart
     I mean if someone told all the priests and paladins of Cyrene to quit the city and join Targossas or become an enemy and lose Devotion, would anyone really be happy about that situation?.
    I picked up on this point, personally this is where Elaina would likely be seen as a traitor by most Cyrenians. Elaina is a paladin and in all honesty when the Lumeni got axed, she jumped for joy. She had been a member for ages and no matter how many times it switched hands, it had the same issue. It seemed to lack the backing to move forward and so became stagnant because we were more interested in ourselves.

    The whole point of Good in regards to the Bloodsworn is to dedicate oneself to their will. I see nothing wrong with this at the end of the day. I also believe that it would be a good move to for them to recall devotion to Targossas.

    Cyrene's devotionists (not all but quite a few) all seem to have the same issue. They claim they are ultimately dedicated to the will of good at heart, yet we want it on our own terms. Unfortunately Devotion is a gift from the deities and no matter how much we wish to argue. This is a fact.

    With the interactions that have occurred between the two cities. I believe they have every right to doubt our dedication and actions as a city. Hence, the creation of the Diaspora.

    Yet I also believe this has some of the same issues because there is only a small few who wish to put the effort in there and so the RP that could be there, isn't. 

    That's my personal point of view though, that the Cyrene/Targossas RP is lacking because people don't put the effort in whilst they are reaping the joys of the skillset.

    Elaina x

    AchimrstMathonwy
  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2014
    Finchy said:

    Personally, I'm saying we've got a skill to take a hold of right now. Something that'll be a pretty useful political tool for two "unaligned" cities: Runelore. That's your blue chip to play with and change the game Cyrene and Hashan. But whatever, if you take half of your passion in this arguement and put it towards this you'll get something pretty good. Something that can be yours and created by your roleplay, ultimately mutable and to be treasured as your creation.

    Also get crib notes from the Babel guys. Just wear anti-tentacle gloves or something for the love of nairahtnepton.


    Always a pleasure, love you all. Miss you kind of. 
    I did this IC. Achimrst, my Shaman, offered peace with the Spirit walkers to try and gain peace and begin to work with them to try and get to at least a neutral stand point. It was shot down and the leader of the house just tried to get me to rejoin the house then other things happened which I can't really get into and a lot of the house left because they disagreed with how it was handled.

    I do have a log of this too so disagreeing and WTF'ing won't help make it go away.
  • VayneVayne Rhode IslandMember Posts: 1,897 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I find it amusing that your entire argument is based on the fact that you don't want to be Hashani, @Achimirst. Do not worry, if Hashan was given control of Shaman, and of course this whole discussion is nothing but our own hypothetical exercise, I am completely sure we would never let you all back into the city anyway, so don't worry.

    On a more serious note, I think @Mathonwy expounded well on the essential premise I was trying to lay down. A factional class for Hashan would be useless without a firm foundation on which to avail itself for the benefit of the city. This would require Hashan undergo a very fundamental and drastic transformation, and without that it would just be damaging to the game to restrict a class that already does not get enough love to a dysfunctional city. Let's hope Twilight's return is the beginning of that.
    image
    KaitaliJhaeliEilona
  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Vayne said:
    I find it amusing that your entire argument is based on the fact that you don't want to be Hashani, @Achimirst. Do not worry, if Hashan was given control of Shaman, and of course this whole discussion is nothing but our own hypothetical exercise, I am completely sure we would never let you all back into the city anyway, so don't worry.
    My entire argument is that Hashan isn't a place anyone wants to be, including all of your citizens who have actually attacked/betrayed Hashan. My character never actually did anything to Hashan, he simply joined the Curia Spiritus. And since you bring it up, here is the post of mine that will probably get deleted/close this thread up.

    The actual reason that I and anyone in the Curia would never be accepted back into Hashan is because you all decide things like that OOCly. Which is the exact reason I would never want to go back to Hashan. My character himself has only ever tried to help Hashan even after leaving the city up until Xadzia rejected the proposal that Achimrst offered to the Spirit walkers. Just because you and your friends feel like metagaming a city and simply want to get back at @Bluef doesn't mean that Shaman should be made a factional class.  It would totally make sense if they factionalized the class and didn't let the city have any control over it, because than it would basically be The Curia Spiritus and we would be exactly as we are now. There would be no resolution and Bluef, Howdin, and Myself would be a big part of it because we are active shaman who RP as Shaman and don't occupy our time with what next meta-gaming activity can we create to attack anyone who isn't RPing how we want them to. Also if a 'Spirit Diaspora' was created I am very sure you and everyone there would first wake Kachan to enemy us all to the Spirit walkers to try and make us lose any credibility in the 'Spirit diaspora' and try to make her the leader of it while we would clearly try to get either myself or Bluef as a leader. Which is a proven method of yours as with what happened with @Kybrae, she voluntarily left the house and then someone meta-gamed the situation to tell Kachan to wake-up and enemy her to the Spirit walker house than immediately go dormant.

    Does this sound accurate to you? Better screen capture fast cause this will be deleted almost as fast as I post it and thread probably closed.
    Bluef
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Achimrst said:
    Bluef said:

    I'm actually fond of the idea of shamans becoming a faction class.


    Blitch you crazy if you think Shaman being faction is a good idea. Could you imagine Howdin, you and myself in Hashan? I would turn into a giant trolly griefy mess from all the fighting with the Hashani leadership which I do already! All we would hear is, "you have to be evil and serve darkness. Sing the praises of Darkness and lies which makes no sense because we are lying." I have spoken to many Ex-Hashani and the one thing they complain about consistently is the lying problem in Hashan and the covering up of the lying and the elaborate ways they go about covering up the lying......Oh! and the catching them in the lie only get a giant news post or response about how that lie was a lie and OMG I would explode from WTF am I doing here.
    Lol. Okay, that's all Truef.
    Achimrst
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2014
    Vayne said:
    I find it amusing that your entire argument is based on the fact that you don't want to be Hashani, @Achimirst. Do not worry, if Hashan was given control of Shaman, and of course this whole discussion is nothing but our own hypothetical exercise, I am completely sure we would never let you all back into the city anyway, so don't worry.

    On a more serious note, I think @Mathonwy expounded well on the essential premise I was trying to lay down. A factional class for Hashan would be useless without a firm foundation on which to avail itself for the benefit of the city. This would require Hashan undergo a very fundamental and drastic transformation, and without that it would just be damaging to the game to restrict a class that already does not get enough love to a dysfunctional city. Let's hope Twilight's return is the beginning of that.
    Thank you for proving my point, @Vayne

    There is no discussion here of the roleplay value, of the benefits of experienced shamans returning to teach new generations of players, of the history and lore than can be restored, etc. The simple equation is: We don't like you + We control things = Screw off. And that, in a nut shell, is why cities should not be granted the power to regulate factions: Because cities are run by players who care more about retaining their power than advancing the narrative of their city or Achaea as a whole. I can only hope that the person playing @Twilight isn't of this same mindset. 

    On a completely separate note, I tend to agree with @Achimrst about alchemist being a much better fit for a factional class for Hashan than shaman. Its direct connection to the celestial aspects of the City is much more prevalent. 
    Achimrst
  • VayneVayne Rhode IslandMember Posts: 1,897 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yes, with an insurmountable trove of reasons your character has given the city, @Bluef. If such a situation was to arise, I could possible see resolution if you were to hand over the reigns and quit the clan (You did quit the game, did you not?), since your character is probably one of the most toxic in the game considering the seemingly never-ending cycle of antagony against the Spiritwalkers and Hashan, that inescapably devolves into insane threats when anyone oppose you ever.
    image
    KaraiTharvisKaitaliMannimarEilona
  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaMember Posts: 5,187 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Man, I thought Cyrene had problems.

    You guys better not scare the new Twilight away. :(
    And I love too                                                                          Be still, my indelible friend
    That love soon might end                                                         You are unbreaking
    And be known in its aching                                                      Though quaking
    Shown in this shaking                                                             Though crazy
    Lately of my wasteland, baby                                                 That's just wasteland, baby
    AchimrstKaitali
  • VayneVayne Rhode IslandMember Posts: 1,897 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Melodie said:
    Man, I thought Cyrene had problems.

    You guys better not scare the new Twilight away. :(

    We had problems, but apparently I meta gamed them all away. I find it amusing how many people still think Vayne would not only enemy them on whim for opposing him, but still worry that he will,despite having virtually no authority in Hashan anymore, get people enemied and cast out of the city.
    image
  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Melodie said:
    Man, I thought Cyrene had problems.

    You guys better not scare the new Twilight away. :(
    Don't leave us Twilight!

    image
  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Vayne said:
    Melodie said:
    Man, I thought Cyrene had problems.

    You guys better not scare the new Twilight away. :(

    We had problems, but apparently I meta gamed them all away. I find it amusing how many people still think Vayne would not only enemy them on whim for opposing him, but still worry that he will,despite having virtually no authority in Hashan anymore, get people enemied and cast out of the city.
    See @Bluef, here is the news post where they claim that the other person is lying even though he was the Senechal at the time and used someone else to bait me into a metagaming trap to enemy @Perlanox and myself because we never actually did anything to be enemied. Not to mention having his little buddies in the city create all kinds of supposed RP things I did such as poison Alchemist wares with Snow blossom oil. Yo @Vayne who told @Verily and you that I had said anything to @Bluef when we were trying to have out little mini-Curia event and talking in Delos? I am sure you will say you had a serpent there listening but it was all over CT who said something right before it happened. Give us a name honey, I want everyone to know who your leader is.
  • DecanDecan Member Posts: 112 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Vayne said:
    Yes, with an insurmountable trove of reasons your character has given the city, @Bluef. If such a situation was to arise, I could possible see resolution if you were to hand over the reigns and quit the clan (You did quit the game, did you not?), since your character is probably one of the most toxic in the game considering the seemingly never-ending cycle of antagony against the Spiritwalkers and Hashan, that inescapably devolves into insane threats when anyone oppose you ever.

    Ya know, its funny how the only people who like Bluef are the ones in the Curia or are OOC friends with her. But, I know for a fact that if the Curia espoused her from their ranks, the City and likely the SW would enter talks to have them back and work together. I've found that for the most part no one cares a rats arse about the Curia or its members and because of that Bluef does what ever she can to keep it alive. Otherwise it would just be another lolclan. The level of RP involved is exceptionally low with the exception of Bluef, but even then as @Vayne mentioned, its toxic RP which is why no one wants to even acknowledge it.
    image
    Eilona
  • DecanDecan Member Posts: 112 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited February 2014
    double post :(
    image
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2014
    Decan said:
    Vayne said:
    Yes, with an insurmountable trove of reasons your character has given the city, @Bluef. If such a situation was to arise, I could possible see resolution if you were to hand over the reigns and quit the clan (You did quit the game, did you not?), since your character is probably one of the most toxic in the game considering the seemingly never-ending cycle of antagony against the Spiritwalkers and Hashan, that inescapably devolves into insane threats when anyone oppose you ever.

    Ya know, its funny how the only people who like Bluef are the ones in the Curia or are OOC friends with her. But, I know for a fact that if the Curia espoused her from their ranks, the City and likely the SW would enter talks to have them back and work together. I've found that for the most part no one cares a rats arse about the Curia or its members and because of that Bluef does what ever she can to keep it alive. Otherwise it would just be another lolclan. The level of RP involved is exceptionally low with the exception of Bluef, but even then as @Vayne mentioned, its toxic RP which is why no one wants to even acknowledge it.
    Decan, you don't know a thing about the Curia or its RP. Just like you haven't been in the hearts and minds of every single Achean player and have somehow surmised from those innersights that no one likes Bluef. I can guarantee you that we've done more in the last year roleplay-wise than the Spirit Walkers and we only have half the membership.

    After threatening to find and punch me IRL, that you'd have the gall to speak about me let alone address a conversation here that I'm apart of just demonstrates your level of sociopathy though, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised you'd jump on the "Let's make this thread about Bluef and how much we hate her and the Curia and how stupid they are," train instead of contributing to a talk about how awesome shaman faction RP could be. 

    Way to be.


  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Decan said:
    Vayne said:
    Yes, with an insurmountable trove of reasons your character has given the city, @Bluef. If such a situation was to arise, I could possible see resolution if you were to hand over the reigns and quit the clan (You did quit the game, did you not?), since your character is probably one of the most toxic in the game considering the seemingly never-ending cycle of antagony against the Spiritwalkers and Hashan, that inescapably devolves into insane threats when anyone oppose you ever.

    Ya know, its funny how the only people who like Bluef are the ones in the Curia or are OOC friends with her. But, I know for a fact that if the Curia espoused her from their ranks, the City and likely the SW would enter talks to have them back and work together. I've found that for the most part no one cares a rats arse about the Curia or its members and because of that Bluef does what ever she can to keep it alive. Otherwise it would just be another lolclan. The level of RP involved is exceptionally low with the exception of Bluef, but even then as @Vayne mentioned, its toxic RP which is why no one wants to even acknowledge it.
    If you want to talk about Toxic RP what about your little Cyrenian alt friend who claimed that because I was a Sylvan I was illusioning the Curia members and that her magical little book that she just happened to have read about dreams explained all of everything the Curia was doing to the Curia members. I might be OOC friends with Bluef but I met her through RP. Achimrst and others made an initiative to try and fix the Spiritwalker house by meeting with and talking with Bluef about a 'vision' they had. Which the vision was just some stupid spiritboard we were bored and playing with :P Some of us tried to talk to Harmonia as well although she didn't want to RP with us. As for our RP, we haven't been doing too much lately that's true although last time we tried to have an event Hashan's little bash Bluef group decided to butt in for absolutely no reason other than to try and block us from doing it. If your trying so hard not to acknowledge it than why go our of your way to stop us from doing it? All we were trying to do was have an event about a damn 'sanctum' for the Curia Spiritus and then you all pushed yourselves into it like we were rearranging the world and killing all the gods and crowning ourselves rulers of Achaea. You guys honestly need some help, and being kicked out of that city and joining the Curia Spiritus was the best thing that ever happened to me in this game. I have RP and am in a city where the leaders don't meta-game everything I do. The only lolclan here is the Spirit walker house who doesn't even know wtf they are anymore and all their little friends get to run it and crap all over anything that anyone in it tries to do just to lol about it on Skype or wherever the hell you all talk.
    Bluef
  • KaraiKarai Member Posts: 325 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited February 2014
    Golly gee, you people so dramatic.

    Not even @Bluef could restrain herself after already mentioning that her response has gone off-topic. The whole discussion is moot, no class is going to go to either Cyrene or Hashan and no new classes are going to be created. Even if Shaman was made a factional class, or at least Curses was factionalized, Hashan would be within its right to decide who to allow back, but I'm sure the Divine would have some say in it to make it fair, even though those wishing to join may have to make significant sacrifices.

    In practice, Hashan is losing Occultists, though we've been doing alright with other classes. It does put us at a disadvantage, but it can't really be helped unless that 'factional identity' comes with some font ability or something.
    BluefAchimrstElaina
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2014
    Decan said:
    Vayne said:
    Yes, with an insurmountable trove of reasons your character has given the city, @Bluef. If such a situation was to arise, I could possible see resolution if you were to hand over the reigns and quit the clan (You did quit the game, did you not?), since your character is probably one of the most toxic in the game considering the seemingly never-ending cycle of antagony against the Spiritwalkers and Hashan, that inescapably devolves into insane threats when anyone oppose you ever.

    Ya know, its funny how the only people who like Bluef are the ones in the Curia or are OOC friends with her. But, I know for a fact that if the Curia espoused her from their ranks, the City and likely the SW would enter talks to have them back and work together. I've found that for the most part no one cares a rats arse about the Curia or its members and because of that Bluef does what ever she can to keep it alive. Otherwise it would just be another lolclan. The level of RP involved is exceptionally low with the exception of Bluef, but even then as @Vayne mentioned, its toxic RP which is why no one wants to even acknowledge it.
    All the proof any Achaean ever needs that the issues Hashan et al has with the Curia are oddly personal and related to a single person, not its founding, its history, its roleplay, etc.
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