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Shield tat idea

ShecksShecks Member Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

So, we had a recent conversation in game that I'd like to share the results of.  We were discussing slow-prepping using shield, and the concept of "shield-whoring" in general.

Mostly we all agree that there's nothing wrong with shield.  However, we'd like to see some way of discouraging using it in a way that might be considered "excessive".

Here's the idea we arrived at, with the goal being to essentially not touch how it works, unless it is used -a lot-.

There are a lot of ideas floating around, but I thought this one was pretty cool, and would discourage the 20-minute shield fests we have all come to know and despise.

Touch shield once:  
Your shield tattoo begins to feel warm on your skin.
8 seconds later (4 seconds after shield balance), this warm feeling fades.

Touch shield while the tattoo is still "warm":
Your shield tattoo stings unpleasantly.
10 seconds after this, this feelings fades (total reset)

Touch shield 3rd time:
Your shield tattoo burns painfully as you touch it.
+1.5 second equilibrium time
12 seconds after this, this feelings fades (total reset)

Touch shield while still "hot" (4 times in a row):
Shield equilibrium 7 seconds, afflicts with ablaze (optional, for style)
Resets 4 seconds after balance returns.

Comments

  • ExelethrilExelethril Member Posts: 3,360 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    There are things you can do to discourage shield whoring as a serpent. Also, think of the group combat implications.

    [ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]

    [ Runewarden Sparring Videos | Link ]
    KuyXith
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 5,040 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2014
    6472h, 4635m, 25880e, 21009w x|cdbk Nobody nothing [0|0|0|0|0|0] - 10(-400m, 7.9%) classlead show 49
    Report #49
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Submitted by: Antonius       Status      : Approved                 Priority : -1
    Skill       : Tattoos        Ability     : Shield
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Problem:
    Continued usage of the shield tattoo can make it extremely difficult for some classes to sustain
    offense, especially when combined with other hindering defences or afflictions (particularly aura of
    rebounding and dragoncraft enmesh). This becomes particularly problematic when fighting classes that
    suffer very little from heavily interrupted offense.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Solution #1:
    Increase the equilibrium time for each successive shield tattoo within a certain period of time,
    making it unfeasible to shield continuously.
    Solution #2:
    Solution #3:
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Decision:
    We'll look at this as part of a larger project in the future.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Shecks
  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,325 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I don't like this. 

    I think shieldwhoring has its place in 1v1 and someone -should- be able to constantly shield and stop a portion of their opponent's offense while sacrificing all of their own offense. The problem here is obviously prep classes, which can stop using their offensive skills but still retain offensive "momentum", if you will. Rather than decreasing shield usage, I think looking at creating more penalties for using your shield tattoo is more appropriate.
    image
    Shecks
  • JovoloJovolo Member Posts: 3,339 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jacen said:
    Rather than decreasing shield usage, I think looking at creating more penalties for using your shield tattoo is more appropriate.
    I don't understand this line of reasoning. Providing penalties for "over-use" of a shield tattoo is exactly what the OP offers, and any such penalty would of course in turn cause a decrease in actual shield usage. It's difficult (read: practically impossible) to have one without the other.

    While I don't agree with the idea presented in this thread, over-use of shield is a problem fighting against a prep class as a momentum class and it's already being looked at as part of classleads.
    RakonShecksDartega
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 5,040 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The problem isn't just prep classes. If a momentum class shields every couple of attacks they'll likely never make enough progress to kill their opponent but they'll probably be able to stall their opponent enough that they won't die either. That might be "balanced" but it's incredibly boring, and makes the game worse for everybody involved.
    RakonShecksStrataHhaos
  • ShecksShecks Member Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited February 2014
    Antonius said:
    The problem isn't just prep classes. If a momentum class shields every couple of attacks they'll likely never make enough progress to kill their opponent but they'll probably be able to stall their opponent enough that they won't die either. That might be "balanced" but it's incredibly boring, and makes the game worse for everybody involved.
    The problem of slow prepping (imo) is a different one.  All my idea does is is a way to incentivize people to come up with a strategy of defense other than "dor touch shield".  During our discussion we likened it to holding down your shield button in Smash Bros. =P.  Shielding is part of balanced combat, but holding it down all day would have consequences.

    As far as slow prepping is concerned, I had an idea of my own, but already know it will never be accepted, because its simple enough, and could have been implemented in the last 10 years, but never was.

    All an ability to reset limb damage on a singl limb, that is akin to shatter/phase/ptv - requires pausing all action, for about 4-5 seconds.  The only way that this could be pulled off safely in a fight with a monk/knight is 1) They start shielding profusely.  2) You safely escape the engagement.

    The idea behind this would be to make the idea unusable in a fight, unless the monk/knight starts bunkering, destroying all momentum for any opponent.  This idea is meant to equalize the concept of "turtling", by allowing both fighters to "heal up", instead of just the monk or knight.

    This idea, particularly with the one in the OP, would significantly cut down on the amount of slow prepping, and shield/rebounding spamming in fights, and would makes fight shorter, more fun, and more advantageous to the more skilled fighter, not just the ones with the class that can prep limbs.
  • StrataStrata United States of DerpMember Posts: 1,753 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited February 2014
    There's nothing wrong with shield. And the recent change where limb damage slowly fades away as long as a particular limb is not hit is one step toward fixing the "slow prepping" problem.

    Here's an idea: Make an artefact that halves the time it takes for limb damage to fade away. *hint IRE gets $$$$$ hint hint* :)

    Edit (another idea): Make an artefact... called a "Sceptre of Thread Topic" and give to to @Shecks for free so we don't have to follow his ideas around through 50 different threads.
    ShirszaeMazoth
  • ShecksShecks Member Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    The idea was a lot of people's not just mine, and I posted it exactly where it should go.

    Please stop derailing, I think the idea is with at least fair consideration.
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You touch the tattoo and a nearly invisible magical shield forms around you.
    4492h.100%, 5899m.100%, 19320e, 23280w 26.8% excdbkr- 19:31:32.419 (sl)
    Malaphus flays away your shield defence.
    4492h.100%, 5899m.100%, 19320e, 23280w 26.8% excdbkr- 19:31:33.577 (sl)
    You touch the tattoo and a nearly invisible magical shield forms around you.
    4492h.100%, 5899m.100%, 19320e, 23280w 26.8% excdbkr- 19:31:36.905 (sl)
    Zylia razes your magical shield with an ornate steel rapier.
    4492h.100%, 5899m.100%, 19320e, 23280w 26.8% excdbkr- 19:31:37.411 (sl)
    You touch the tattoo and a nearly invisible magical shield forms around you.
    4492h.100%, 5899m.100%, 19320e, 23280w 26.8% excdbkr- 19:31:39.998 (sl)
    Malaphus flays away your shield defence.
    4492h.100%, 5899m.100%, 19320e, 23280w 26.8% excdbkr- 19:31:41.238 (sl)
    Your forefinger breaks as you attempt to touch a shield tattoo.
    4492h.100%, 5899m.100%, 19320e, 23280w 26.8% excdbkr- 19:31:42.699 (sl)
    Your other nine fingers break as you attempt to apply mending to your forefinger.
    4492h.100%, 5899m.100%, 19320e, 23280w 26.8% excdbkr- 19:31:43.012 (sl)
    Your ass gets destroyed.
    You have been slain by the public opinion.
    (svo): We died, sorry. :(
    0h.0%, 5899m.100%, 19320e, 23280w 26.8% excdbkr- 19:31:43.013 (sl)
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
    MazothCesarina
  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,325 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The glass cannon type classes rely on shield tats to cure up against fast/strong knights, strong monks, etc. I think the unfairness here doesn't lie in the ability to turtle behind a shield and fully stop your opponents offense (which doesn't even apply when fighting other prep classes), but in the ability to retain all of their "momentum", or offensive advancement, while playing in full on defensive mode. 

    That's why I think the focus should be not on limiting the use of the shield tattoo, but discouraging its use. Figure out a way for prep classes to lose ground every time the touch their shield tat.

    You also have to remember when considering these changes that for every uber artied monk that can kill you in 20 seconds, there's 5 other monks that need a minute or more to get you set up to take you thru one kill chain, which may or may not do the trick. Some affliction classes can run through their setups several times before the monk/bm/whatever can pull theirs off once.
    image
  • SilasSilas Member Posts: 2,652 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Even on my phone where I can't see the thread starter I knew this would be another terrible idea from Shecks.

    ShirszaeBonkoCynlaelMannimar
  • ShecksShecks Member Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    @jacen I agree, and honestly I forgot there were unartied monks (haven't seen one in game in forever). However the strategy of slow prepping is identical and also unstoppable without artifacts, it just takes longer to do (more shielding.

    Again I'll point out that the two ideas suggested are independent. The tweak to shield was basically based on the idea that if you are shielding 4+ times consecutively (16 seconds), you should have either died or ran away. It definitely shouldn't be immediately followed by a double leg break and a win.
  • KaieKaie Member Posts: 158 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    @Shecks I think this is the best idea ever. I hope it goes through. Damn pk will be SOOOO easy finally. HahahahAhAhAha. Am I the only one who sees the obvious problem this causes. Go for it, though I'm pretty sure you'll regret ever submitting this idea about 3 hours into it going live.
  • ShecksShecks Member Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    This thread was super dead, and you brought it back to be sarcastic.

    However I think you're wrong, since I know how to use hindrance/evasion in combat, instead of just laying on my shield hotkey when I get scerred.
  • JovoloJovolo Member Posts: 3,339 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    evade
    JhuiNemutaurNim
  • KaieKaie Member Posts: 158 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    lol
This discussion has been closed.