Welcome to the Achaea Forums! Please be sure to read the Forum Rules.

Jack In The Box

2»

Comments

  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Instakills =/= timed kills.

    Catharsis is an instant kill. The ones listed are timed and don't require prep except for behead which requires prone or webbed, not sure if anything else works. Reave and tzantza start at higher timers but are greatly reduced by afflictions on the target.

    The point is everything is balanced and the only beef is with Jitb being stopped with peace that's afflicted at the 11th second. Half the people I've asked agreed, the other half didn't care, but since most of the peace classes can also force actions, it's kind of overkill. I'd accept a nerf to devotion Force too though.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • KaieKaie ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 158 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Okay, you guys totally missed the point. Yes, Jester has mad hindering skills, and rightfully so because that's what the class is based on. Again though, I was pointing out that tumble if used intelligently can -always- defeat it and there really isn't a chance to pick up the pieces after they get moved from the room with tumble, thus causing you to restart the whole procedure. Peels, tower, web, etc is irrelevant to this because none of it affects tumble. The only thing that does is mangles which, to be realistic you won't get a person to stick around with 4 mangles if you even get to mangle all four. 

    Slowlocks are old news as what's his name stated.

    @arditi I get that. You do something difficult and people are wowed.

    The idea wasn't to make a guaranteed kill, it was to improve upon things. I wouldn't say Execute is exactly the same, simply because a serpent typically has a person locked for execute, so even if the person tumbles away you can move in and restart it. With Jester, once you move rooms it's over. 


    Anyways, this is so yesterday. I've moved on to other things.
  • NemutaurNemutaur GermanyMember Posts: 1,068
    Xith said:
    Instakills =/= timed kills.
    Huh, I always figured instant kills were just methods of ending somebodies life without using damage to get their health to 0. So in my book timed kills are instant kills.
    KaieSylvance
  • KaieKaie ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 158 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited January 2014
    @nemataur Yeah, instakills are instakills.. hence 'kill' being part of the name. Lol

    @xith I don't really have too much problem with peace. Ideally the target should not be capable of such action when the kill is setup. It does happen sometimes though, but like it's fine because there -should- be a chance to get out of it.

    The one thing that does kinda bug me is hearing monks can peace while prone and prepped. That's pretty harsh if it can actually be done, but I've never seen it or had it happen. Could just be wishful thinking on some one's part since I can't really verify that.
  • NemutaurNemutaur GermanyMember Posts: 1,068
    edited January 2014
    Kaie said:
    The one thing that does kinda bug me is hearing monks can peace while prone and prepped. That's pretty harsh if it can actually be done, but I've never seen it or had it happen. Could just be wishful thinking on some one's part since I can't really verify that.
    Syntax: MIND PACIFY [target]
    By drawing a soft cloak of telepathic power over the mind of a locked adventurer, you are able to make offensive actions abhorrent to him. This will last for a short, random amount of time, or until an offensive act is directed at him.

    Could work I guess, not sure how short that short random timer really is, I usually just try to tumble out or mind throw the jester away. But the next time I am in a proper kill room with a closed door I guess I can give this a shot.

    EDIT: Oh forgot to add it requires a mind lock, so if it is a strength monk they might not be able to hold one for long.
    Karai
  • KaieKaie ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 158 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    @nemataur Yeah, tumble is probably the best course of action. He could try it, though if I catch him on balance and with a lock I could just force radiance and plaugh.
  • NemutaurNemutaur GermanyMember Posts: 1,068
    Kaie said:
    @nemataur Yeah, tumble is probably the best course of action. He could try it, though if I catch him on balance and with a lock I could just force radiance and plaugh.
    If forced/started when you're in an different room sure. Most people will be spamming diagnose and def though to try to see what hidden affs you're trying to give them.
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kaie said:
    @xith I don't really have too much problem with peace. Ideally the target should not be capable of such action when the kill is setup. It does happen sometimes though, but like it's fine because there -should- be a chance to get out of it.

    The one thing that does kinda bug me is hearing monks can peace while prone and prepped. That's pretty harsh if it can actually be done, but I've never seen it or had it happen. Could just be wishful thinking on some one's part since I can't really verify that.
    So you're now stating they shouldn't be able to get away by 11 seconds but requested the jitb timer be decreased.. because...?
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • KaieKaie ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 158 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited January 2014
    @xith if you go back and re-read the part you just bolded, you'll notice I said 'ideally the target should not be in such a position. Peace stopping JITB wasn't ever a problem I was addressing. The one I was is that tumble is typically always going to be far faster than JITB.

    What you're suggesting is that JITB become totally unstoppable. What I was saying is it would be nice if the timing was brought more inline with others.
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Xith said:
    You have a few types of jesters:
    A) people who have never played the class, only against it, but still think they understand it
    B) class changing combat pros who try it for a few weeks, and like a true combatant, abuse the sh*t out of anything that is broken so that it gets nerfed
    C) people of an average combat/coding mind who struggle with the more delicate aspects like how to manage your bombs, props, cards, puppets
    D) career jesters who work out every possible kill method with some assistance from opponents and the few fellow jester fighters, and ultimately find the flaws and hardships in each of those methods
    E) Xith
    SylvanceDartega
  • NaisarNaisar ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent Member Posts: 255 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    If you can't get kills after the mickey change you should probably throw in the towel and change class.
    JovoloCooperSylvanceDartega
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kaie said:
    @xith if you go back and re-read the part you just bolded, you'll notice I said 'ideally the target should not be in such a position. Peace stopping JITB wasn't ever a problem I was addressing. The one I was is that tumble is typically always going to be far faster than JITB.

    What you're suggesting is that JITB become totally unstoppable. What I was saying is it would be nice if the timing was brought more inline with others.
    Actually no, you're trying to overcome a skill that everyone has on a permanent level that must be started 4+ seconds before jitb finishes, while I'm talking about one that can be done instantly on the 11th second. It's entirely possible to stick someone for 4-6 seconds and cross your fingers that they try to leave and hit peels before tumbling. The timing is in line because it already can't be stopped by anything except peace.
    "Behead" is available to jesters who think it's better.

    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Naisar said:
    If you can't get kills after the mickey change you should probably throw in the towel and change class.
    It helped a little but an entire aeon/dagger setup is still barely going to take 6 seconds to cure out of, leaving the same window. It's basically up to tower/peels and competing with every strategy except for slowlocks.
    I won the race most of the time while jester. Reducing jitb by 2 seconds would tip it far too heavily in jester's favour.

    I'm as much a "jester is broken" advocate as anyone, but it's for reasons other than jitb. Jitb is probably the strongest skill in the class and a contender for best in the game.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
    Seftin
  • SeftinSeftin Member Posts: 923 @ - Epic Achaean
    JITB is fine, if you can't get the kill with JITB, use death tarot, or do what I did - bop.
  • ExelethrilExelethril Member Posts: 3,352 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    What really needs to be addressed isn't JitB but the fact that jesters can still fly while prone with mangled arms(?) and legs.

    [ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]

    [ Runewarden Sparring Videos | Link ]
    JovoloNemutaur
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,236 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    NOT IF YOU BREAK THEM OFF BALLANCE RAWR

    It does need addressing in some way, though. It's just unlucky for you that Runewardens are the only limb damage class, really, that doesn't have a great method of preventing it.
  • ExelethrilExelethril Member Posts: 3,352 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    O reallyz, how do monks deal with balloons? Nairat/Wunjo sorta works with a tentacle tattoo.

    [ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]

    [ Runewarden Sparring Videos | Link ]
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,236 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    force abilities
    Exelethril
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 3,030 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    JITB is the only thing I like about Jester. It is both creepy and funny at the same time. Giant toy biting your head off. Mwahaha
    SylvanceVastus
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jovolo said:
    NOT IF YOU BREAK THEM OFF BALLANCE RAWR

    It does need addressing in some way, though. It's just unlucky for you that Runewardens are the only limb damage class, really, that doesn't have a great method of preventing it.
    Give Runies a geyser rune that they can sketch, so they can prop before the rune goes off. Totems screw with balloons. Not positive on whether it's the prone/sleep or transfix.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • KyrraKyrra AustraliaMember Posts: 4,861 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Xith said:
    Jovolo said:
    NOT IF YOU BREAK THEM OFF BALLANCE RAWR

    It does need addressing in some way, though. It's just unlucky for you that Runewardens are the only limb damage class, really, that doesn't have a great method of preventing it.
    Give Runies a geyser rune that they can sketch, so they can prop before the rune goes off. Totems screw with balloons. Not positive on whether it's the prone/sleep or transfix.
    You mean you didn't know we have that rune already? :O
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

    SylvanceBluef
  • KaieKaie ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 158 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Okay, well. I retract this suggestion until such a time that curing systems become so advanced that they can replace thinking entirely. My entire thought process behind this assumed that everyone is pretty calm and thinks on the fly during pk. I was mistaken, and also may have forgot how disgusting JITB can be during group pk.

    @Xith you sucked as jester dude. Please don't go on like you were the greatest Jester of all time. The fact that you continuously suggest that peace is overly powerful and should not stop JITB is pretty much evident of this. Peace being the only thing aside from movement that stops it makes JITB actually one of the hardest kills to stop in existence. I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings, but don't piss in a glass and try to convince everyone it's water and to drink up. Your aim is and has always been to make Jester op to the point where you can just hit an alias and kick back while the target helplessly succumbs to JITB.

    That being said, I never claimed I could not JITB anyone, I only claimed that it was kind of slow and that if you really know what you're doing, it is pretty hard to manage since tumble ignores almost all afflictions. 
    XithBluef
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Kaie your flip-flopping makes Mitt Romney look honest.

    And for the amount of complaining about the class I did/do, I actually lost 1v1 fights pretty rarely. That includes Moghedu fights in which you cannot use a balloon to get away.

    Like I said in a previous post, career jesters are the only ones who can identify real flaws. That makes you, me, Bonko, and anyone else who spent 3 RL years as a jester.
    If your time has taught you that you should bring up 'Jack-in-the-Box' as an underpowered skill, then at the time of my class change, I may very well have been the greatest jester. It is not slow for what it does.

    Astralform and Blackwind were wisely adjusted to have a delay, previously the other cheapshot methods of avoiding what is otherwise a well-played timed kill.
    But after learning that Peace is removed upon being attacked again, it's not such a steep price to pay for jitb. Conclusion therefore being that the skill is perfectly balanced.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kyrra said:
    Xith said:
    Jovolo said:
    NOT IF YOU BREAK THEM OFF BALLANCE RAWR

    It does need addressing in some way, though. It's just unlucky for you that Runewardens are the only limb damage class, really, that doesn't have a great method of preventing it.
    Give Runies a geyser rune that they can sketch, so they can prop before the rune goes off. Totems screw with balloons. Not positive on whether it's the prone/sleep or transfix.
    You mean you didn't know we have that rune already? :O
    Not unless Isaz has some hidden function I don't know about...

    Anyway I thought we converted this into a fix jester thread.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • AccipiterAccipiter ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent Member Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    The was the other other Jester thread.
  • KaieKaie ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 158 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Geeze this is still discussed? I admitted to being mistaken by the issue being JITB ages ago after observing closer. Can this thread just be closed or something..
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,924 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    What? Nobody had posted here for 11 days until you came along.
    ShirszaeXith
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kafziel said:
    JITB is fine, Xith still has no clue, thread over
    Btw it was Kaie who started the thread, meathead. Maybe read a little. :)
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
Sign In to Comment.