Would you like to see shrine "capacity" raised?

Ernam

As we already know, big shrine changes are coming (at some point between now and ~2050), but in the mean time, would you like to see shrine capacity raised to something higher? Here are some reasons I think it'd be more fun that way:

1) There are -far- more dragons and artied bashers out there raising shrines there ever before, particularly compared to when the current shrine system was designed.

2) It's perfectly feasible for an artied dragon to drop 5-6 shrines per hour, allowing a single player to drop upwards of 50 a day if they chose to do so.

3) It's incredibly easy and fast to drop shrines, alone, before anyone has a chance to defend or witness them.

4) This change would take literally minutes of coding time (assuming it's as simple as simply adding a zero to the max essence limit of shrines)

5) But: "This would make shrines like mini-icons..." - good! This will make them far more defendable and fun to interact with, in my opinion.

Mithridates

h8 u

Ernam

Another idea was to just remove the cap, but to have diminishing returns over 200k.  (after 200k, each 100 essence only adds 80, after 300k, each 100 essence only adds 50, etc), but honestly that'd be a really bad investment.

Nemutaur

Yes if you could only have 10 shrines raised at any one point across all continents and planes. I'd be all for a 5 million essence shrine then.

Shirszae

Voted for the last option simply because of the awfulness of the idea. 

Ernam

Shirszae said:

Voted for the last option simply because of the awfulness of the idea. 

Good point, now allow me to retort.

Nellaundra

You realize that this has the issue of mobs only lasting so long, yeah? It'd be an absolute mother fucker getting enough to drop a shrine, and it'd make using an offensive worldburn in raids even more usable - just bash up underworld/annwyn beforehand to get a load of essence and keep people topping it off. Since it has a higher cap, you can just keep raising it while they try to bring it down and get worldburned for their trouble.

e: shit, just guard raid to fill the damn shrine as you worldburn constantly.

Ernam

Nellaundra said:

You realize that this has the issue of mobs only lasting so long, yeah? It'd be an absolute mother fucker getting enough to drop a shrine, and it'd make using an offensive worldburn in raids even more usable - just bash up underworld/annwyn beforehand to get a load of essence and keep people topping it off. Since it has a higher cap, you can just keep raising it while they try to bring it down and get worldburned for their trouble.

e: shit, just guard raid to fill the damn shrine as you worldburn constantly.

Yes, this was the intended effect.  Please, however, keep in mind, that it's still pretty easy to collect 1 mil essence between 2-3 people.

Nellaundra

anyone who wants to do more shrine wars and offensive worldburn raids can p. much eat a moldy bag of dicks

Nemutaur

It was even easier to drop shrines back in the day, just get a dragon corpse and use it. The cost to drop a shrine is at a pretty good spot now.

Cooper

1 million essence isn't "easy" for 2-3 people at once. You're talking vertani + sidhe + unsidhe + dks + annwyn animals + scorpions + all of moghedu + all of quisalis + all of dun + all of lower azdun times two, give or take 100k. For one person that's 2.5-3 hours or so assuming artied dragon.

It would make shrines impossible to drop by anyone but large groups of artied dragons, which is really dumb.

Ernam

Cooper said:

It would make shrines impossible to drop by anyone but large groups of artied dragons, which is really dumb.

Or 1 person, over the span of a single hour (defiling at the beginning and end of that hour, doing 500k an hour (I do ~550k/hour)).

Jurixe

Even through my intense dislike of shrine wars, I have to agree with @Nemutaur that the amount needed to raise and defile is currently at a manageable level. Dragon corpses being one-shot defiling/raising was much worse by far.

If they're going to spend time on shrine conflict, would much prefer just a complete rework of the system.

Sena

Ernam said:

Cooper said:

It would make shrines impossible to drop by anyone but large groups of artied dragons, which is really dumb.

Or 1 person, over the span of a single hour (defiling at the beginning and end of that hour, doing 500k an hour (I do ~550k/hour)).

This is assuming that during that hour nobody is defending the shrine, harassing the hunter(s), or sanctifying?

Ernam

Sena said:

Ernam said:

Cooper said:

It would make shrines impossible to drop by anyone but large groups of artied dragons, which is really dumb.

Or 1 person, over the span of a single hour (defiling at the beginning and end of that hour, doing 500k an hour (I do ~550k/hour)).

This is assuming that during that hour nobody is defending the shrine, harassing the hunter(s), or sanctifying?

People actually being able to defend/sanctify a shrine before it is essentially one-shot is the entire point of the concept.

@Jurixe I feel the same way about the coding time thing, but I am 80% sure this change would literally take a few minutes of time to implement.

Santar

Cooper said:

1 million essence isn't "easy" for 2-3 people at once. You're talking vertani + sidhe + unsidhe + dks + annwyn animals + scorpions + all of moghedu + all of quisalis + all of dun + all of lower azdun times two, give or take 100k. For one person that's 2.5-3 hours or so assuming artied dragon.

It would make shrines impossible to drop by anyone but large groups of artied dragons, which is really dumb.

Nah dude. Anyone who's halfway decent can bash millions of both gold and essence in half an hour's time.

Mithridates

Santar said:

Cooper said:

1 million essence isn't "easy" for 2-3 people at once. You're talking vertani + sidhe + unsidhe + dks + annwyn animals + scorpions + all of moghedu + all of quisalis + all of dun + all of lower azdun times two, give or take 100k. For one person that's 2.5-3 hours or so assuming artied dragon.

It would make shrines impossible to drop by anyone but large groups of artied dragons, which is really dumb.

Nah dude. Anyone who's halfway decent can bash millions BILLIONS of both gold and essence in half an hour's time.

Wysteria

There are a couple of situations where I might be the only person around to raise 4-6 shrines. Like hell am I going to be able to solo bash half the continent at level 85 just to raise one bloody shrine if the capacity is raised. It would make it unreasonable and only something dragons can do. Eating up 50% willpower is bad enough. Where it's at right now is perfect and manageable for the Orders.

Most cases, I have to call it over CT for corpses because it is as some people say, you won't get the time to raise, sanctify, protect the shrine etc in one hour. You do need teamwork and people willing to assist an Order they're not apart of.

Getting rid of the one shot raise / defile was a good thing though. I did appreciate that change.

Ernam

Wysteria said:

There are a couple of situations where I might be the only person around to raise 4-6 shrines. Like hell am I going to be able to solo bash half the continent at level 85 just to raise one bloody shrine if the capacity is raised. It would make it unreasonable and only something dragons can do. Eating up 50% willpower is bad enough. Where it's at right now is perfect and manageable for the Orders.

You realize if shrines took 500k essence to drop, You would only have to raise one shrine, instead of five, right? (relative to the amount of essence it takes to drop the 4-6 you mentioned, at 100k).

If anything, the defiled shrine's order would have an advantage, because now the defile/raise ratio would be 500/600k instead of 100k/200k

Anedhel

Hoo, boy, your numbers don't add up. It's not 100k to raise a shrine to full, nor is it 200k to drop a shrine from full.

ETA: I will say this- any change that makes the game more static, requires more time investment, and simultaneously demands greater levels of cooperation between players will reduce the amount of activity tied to that that happens in game.

Ernam

Other way around.  It's ~100k to drop a shrine, and you have to pay for Raise, and Sanctify, to raise it.

Kafziel

Similar to the new mood option, I'd personally like a CONFIG SHRINES ON|OFF option that allows one to entirely opt out of all shrine related (read: forced bashing) conflict. I don't even want to see them in the room when I walk around because they offend me.

Razha

Another idea would be to make them only raiseable in city (or org) property, that way they actually serve a tactical purpose. I was annoyed before with people raising shrines atop the towers at ton'lough, because it is just beginning for trouble. One instance of shrine combat I did like though was Mhaldor raising a shrine at NoT and just to see how long they could keep it up. It's all kind of pointless, with no RP value in the end. Maybe shrines and raiding need to be reworked together to come up with some better way to spur conflict RP, something more meaningful.

Atalkez

Takes about 60k to raise, 90k to drop give or take 5k.

All of annwyn including garbage is only like 200k. This idea is rather unfeasible, for much of the same reasons brought up before.

Mishgul

Delete conflict. I would like to afk in peace.

Kellonius

I vote to keep it the same, but I'd like to see essence values of NPCs reduced as well as a limit to the number of total shrines an order can place. I'd also like to see worldburn damage reduced or removed to promote other shrine powers being used, and an actual reason to break into/raid temples. For instance being able to attack master shrines and have that effect other shrines. 

There is a lot of potential for shrine combat so long as we dont bring it in line with boring things like icon combat and landmarking. 

Nim

Could make shrine capacities grow slowly, so well established shrines are harder to smash, but recently raised shrines might be even easier.

Could also just delete shrine conflict. PvE already gets dragons, make religious conflict about something less mindnumbingly boring.

Ruth

Pray to sanctify! Pray to defile! Less mindnumbingly boring!

But seriously, keep it how it is until shrine revamps come in. Would really hope it doesn't involve bashing that much.

Aalm

We must erect a @Deucalion shrine near the border of North and South Koreas and kick off another land war in Asia with frequent and continuous Worldburning of Kim Jung-un and his Evil minions. Of course, this entails keeping the shrines at current 100,000 essence capacity, if the soldiers of Light are ever to defeat the villainous commies and bring peace and joy to the starving masses in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, who live under unspeakable slavery and oppression.

Kyrra

Aalm said:

We must erect a @Deucalion shrine near the border of North and South Koreas and kick off another land war in Asia with frequent and continuous Worldburning of Kim Jung-un and his Evil minions. Of course, this entails keeping the shrines at current 100,000 essence capacity, if the soldiers of Light are ever to defeat the villainous commies and bring peace and joy to the starving masses in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, who live under unspeakable slavery and oppression.

Yes, I'd really love to see the Light fighting against slavery and oppression too. Wouldn't that be glorious?

Aalm

Kyrra said:

Aalm said:

We must erect a @Deucalion shrine near the border of North and South Koreas and kick off another land war in Asia with frequent and continuous Worldburning of Kim Jung-un and his Evil minions. Of course, this entails keeping the shrines at current 100,000 essence capacity, if the soldiers of Light are ever to defeat the villainous commies and bring peace and joy to the starving masses in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, who live under unspeakable slavery and oppression.

Yes, I'd really love to see the Light fighting against slavery and oppression too. Wouldn't that be glorious?

@Kyrra : it was a joke.