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Removing instant travel - good, or bad?

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  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 421 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Looks like you chose the wrong buddy then? With the way the AFK rules are currently, you could get a friend who doesn't play Achaea to make a new toon and sit where you like and just leave The client running 24/7. The complaints seem centred around earrings in raid groups, so this would cover that fine. There does seem to be a major disconnect between 'the earrings aren't that useful really' and 'omg please don't nerf them' going on here though.
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,276 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Shecks said:
    I have an earring and I die all the time. Trying to make the argument that earrings make you death-proof (which some of you seem to be doing) is pretty silly. You're also blurring the line between owning an earring and owning 15 of them. 90% of the time, my earring buddy isn't even around, and is almost never on the same plane. Another completely different angle is that if you think earrings are so amazing, then simply get one. The fact that almost nobody buys them until they have virtually everything else already is testament to how valuable they actually are.
    I never suggested that they make you death-proof. Which they don't. They're just extremely powerful for what they do.

    I don't think introducing a small channel time (2s) to the effect of earrings will dramatically reduce their strength as an artefact. As we can see with the AF/BW changes, channel times do not really change all that much in regards to ability strength. I've yet to encounter someone who has been killed during the windup of af/bw - though I don't doubt that it has happened. It's just not a widescale thing.
  • ShecksShecks Member Posts: 626 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited March 2014
    Everyone who doesn't have arties wants arties nerfed.

    See: Veils, artied Tekura, Chenubian wings, Thoth's Fang.

    This game has artefacts that increase your character's ability to both kill and survive.  Earrings have always existed, and they have never changed.  The only reason this is coming up now of all times is because Targossas has made it's primary method of "winning" the use of large groups taking out smaller groups, if not individuals using multiple hindrance methods and tons of damage.  This is perfectly viable, however the only way to consistently survive it (for us) is Empress or earring.  Naturally, now you want to see empress and earring nerfed.

    Frankly put, I personally think they're fine, and have always been fine.  You're just bitter because we found a way to pay 800cr to not die to Targossas' 6v1 gank squads.  The reason for petitioning to have it essentially removed from the game as a method of escaping such situations is pretty obvious.

    Two good suggestions have been made that wouldn't greatly hinder their use in such situations, but would make them a little more "balanced" sinced that is what you claim to want:

    1) Limit the amount of earrings people can own/use.
    2) Create a city defence that prevents the use of earrings inside the city.

    I would be fine with one or both of these, but if you take away my earring's ability to save me from otherwise hopeless situations, I will immediately trade mine in, as will everyone else.
    "Ignore the boos.  They usually come from the cheap seats."
    FlorentinoNimDartegaShirszaeAntidas
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,276 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You are forgetting that a large portion of Targossas also has earrings and also uses them to escape/disengage from fights that are tilting. Nerfing earrings has significant implications for everyone - changing instant travel is not targeted nerf at any one faction, and I would appreciate it if you left those arguments in the Ranting Menace where they belong, or at least try to substantiate them with some valid reasoning beyond "they're fine because they are good for me because I have them".
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Earrings are a method of quick travel, not insta-salvation. If you're basing your ownership of them on the latter, then you're really contributing to the perceived problem with them. 

    Don't think the Garden won't nerf earrings just because so many people own them. It wouldn't be the first time an awesome artefact took a hit and they had to refund a bunch of credits. 

    All that said, earrings are also already blocked by grounding vibes, being prone, paralysed, bound, or off eq/balance. If someone is using them repeatedly to get out of dying in city raids or group combat scenarios, why not simply have someone in your city defense or group focus on maintaining one of these blocks on a person? 


    ShecksStrata
  • CooperCooper IowaMember Posts: 4,982 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    (Earrings were already significantly nerfed once)

    Bluef
  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 421 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Shecks said:
    You're just bitter because we found a way to pay 800cr to not die to Targossas' 6v1 gank squads. 
    I don't see how you can say this and still not see the problem with it. If 6 people who have paid the same amount of money as you gank you, you -should- die. Telling people to get a veil to counter veils is valid, telling them to buy the health/regen/sipboosting artes is valid for tekura, but what arte do you suggest they buy to be able to kill you with your earring?
    Nim
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Accipiter said:
    Shecks said:
    You're just bitter because we found a way to pay 800cr to not die to Targossas' 6v1 gank squads. 
    I don't see how you can say this and still not see the problem with it. If 6 people who have paid the same amount of money as you gank you, you -should- die. Telling people to get a veil to counter veils is valid, telling them to buy the health/regen/sipboosting artes is valid for tekura, but what arte do you suggest they buy to be able to kill you with your earring?
    Paralyse. Prone. Bound. Anything that throws someone off bal/eq. No artefacts required. 
  • MithridatesMithridates Member Posts: 1,956 @ - Epic Achaean
    Shecks said:




     The only reason this is coming up now of all times is because Targossas has made it's primary method of "winning" the use of large groups taking out smaller groups, if not individuals using multiple hindrance methods and tons of damage.  This is perfectly viable, however the only way to consistently survive it (for us) is Empress or earring.  Naturally, now you want to see empress and earring nerfed.

    Frankly put, I personally think they're fine, and have always been fine.  You're just bitter because we found a way to pay 800cr to not die to Targossas' 6v1 gank squads.  The reason for petitioning to have it essentially removed from the game as a method of escaping such situations is pretty obvious.

    You dumb. 
    Shirszae
  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,723 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Cooper said:
    (Earrings were already significantly nerfed once)
    Would pay huge money for the 'summon' style earrings again. Was the whole reason Tuerney and I had a set.

  • StrataStrata United States of DerpMember Posts: 1,753 @ - Epic Achaean
    Agreed with Shecks because I read what he had to say instead of  "Not reading because Shecks." Some of his concerns are valid. Don't think those in here that also post in RM are less "refined" - many of us are the ones who deal with the very things being discussed in this thread on the daily. Most of them who are pro-artefact-nerf are some of the least active in game, least artied, and loudest mouths when calls for nerfs are in.

    Shut up and put your plastic on it, then talk.
    image
    DartegaBluefShirszae
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Strata said:
    Agreed with Shecks because I read what he had to say instead of  "Not reading because Shecks." Some of his concerns are valid. Don't think those in here that also post in RM are less "refined" - many of us are the ones who deal with the very things being discussed in this thread on the daily. Most of them who are pro-artefact-nerf are some of the least active in game, least artied, and loudest mouths when calls for nerfs are in.

    Shut up and put your plastic on it, then talk.
    My money is very much backing my opinion. I disagree with Achaea's cash shop, so I don't spend any money on it. It's extraordinarily simple!
    DaeirShirszae
  • ShecksShecks Member Posts: 626 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    If 6 people who have paid the same amount of money as you gank you, you -should- die.

    This is stupid, and wrong.  Basing your argument on this concept makes your entire argument stupid, and wrong.

    If 6 (or 2) people who know what they are doing jump me, they won't have that big of a challenge killing me, earring or not.  I think a basic fact that you're not considering in this argument is that the requirements to earring are almost the same requirements as walking and using evade.  99% of the time, if a more experienced player is able to walk, and doesn't want to fight, he's going to escape.  The only time earring works that walking doesn't is a locked-door kill room, or inside cities.  I already proposed two good ideas for the city problem, and I don't see why getting out of kill-rooms is a reason to nerf anything.

    And sure, maybe people who have earrings are a little biased, but I think the main reason none of them agree with this is that you're dramatically over-stating how good they actually are.  in 9/10 situations that I have used my earring, I could have simply walked/warped/evaded away, but was too lazy.  But that doesn't stop people from saying "Ohhhhhh god, Shecks only survived because he bought earrings." when it happens.
    "Ignore the boos.  They usually come from the cheap seats."
  • ShecksShecks Member Posts: 626 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited March 2014
    Also, the only places I ever go that earring works when wings wouldn't are azdun, and rarely, moghedu/nuskuwe. I am still lost as to how earring on burst is any different or more "OP" than duanathara on burst. In reality, other than in indoor areas, they're virtually the same except when used to enter cities... Which has already been addresses, multiple times.
    "Ignore the boos.  They usually come from the cheap seats."
  • DartegaDartega Member Posts: 148 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Shecks said:
    Also, the only places I ever go that earring works when wings wouldn't are azdun, and rarely, moghedu/nuskuwe. I am still lost as to how earring on burst is any different or more "OP" than duanathara on burst. In reality, other than in indoor areas, they're virtually the same except when used to enter cities... Which has already been addresses, multiple times.
    Because that has other counters as well + say balance?
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,092 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2014
    Daeir said:
    I hate this notion that game mechanics have to be balanced around the IRL revenue they supposedly bring in.

    Quite frankly, that's fucked on so many levels.
    We're talking about a game we play for fun, right?

    Besides, having done both with and without to autistic extents, raiding or defending without earring mobility is so much less fun than with. Earrings were a great invention.

    Thanks, @Sarapis!
    image
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,092 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2014
    PS I am glad that I was able to answer the OP so swiftly.

    I am sorry that it took two posts.

    fk, 3
    image
  • ShecksShecks Member Posts: 626 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited March 2014
    Dartega said:


    Because that has other counters as well + say balance?

    The "say" balance thing is a non-issue. It takes ~30 seconds to make a spammable alias to only say duanathara only when all other requirements are met. Other than Vertigo, the affliction requirements are virtually identical.

    The only thing people are/should be upset about regarding earrings is their use to -enter- combat situations, not leave them, so please stop suggesting ideas that nerf their perfectly reasonable wing-like defensive use.

    Make them respect orb of confinement, problem solved, if there ever even was one.
    "Ignore the boos.  They usually come from the cheap seats."
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Technically, there are at least two things (silence vibe and that one anti-talking affliction) that make the fact that you have to actually say duanathing difficult.
  • KuyKuy Member Posts: 1,497 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Shecks said:
    Because that has other counters as well + say balance?
    Other than Vertigo, the affliction requirements are virtually identical.
    Wrong.

    There's also stuttering and the silence vibration, though admittedly the silence vibration isn't an "affliction" but more of a "room effect."
    [2:41:24 AM] Kenway: I bet you smell like evergreen trees and you could wrestle boreal mammals but they'd rather just cuddle you
  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,304 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Why doesn't someone head over to the wiki and write up the afflictions and other limitations of wings and earrings so at least we would all be on the same page?
    image
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,163 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2014
    Room hindrance alone is a pretty big difference. Idk why we're stuck at comparing wings and earrings anyway. The mobility between allies they afford is their major benefit. Escaping is something several classes already have access to in a variety of ways. It's just that with earrings you can be in and out of fights at your whim essentially. With wings you're always just... going to clouds.

    (And if you're even going to argue you only use earrings for their defensive ability and that they are identical to wings well there is your solution to any unlikely earring nerfs.)
  • CooperCooper IowaMember Posts: 4,982 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jacen said:
    Why doesn't someone head over to the wiki and write up the afflictions and other limitations of wings and earrings so at least we would all be on the same page?
    Because anyone actually qualified to discuss this should already know what stops wings and what stops earrings.

    NimBluefShirszaeDornSobriquet
  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,304 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    God forbid we make public any mechanical information that inflates your ego.
    image
    RomKuyBluefShirszae
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Cooper said:
    Jacen said:
    Why doesn't someone head over to the wiki and write up the afflictions and other limitations of wings and earrings so at least we would all be on the same page?
    Because anyone actually qualified to discuss this should already know what stops wings and what stops earrings.
    While people discussing combat balance should ideally know how everything works, Achaea's pretty terrible about letting people knowing how everything works. You got a disagree for trying to argue against spreading knowledge on Achaean game mechanics.
    BluefStrata
  • CooperCooper IowaMember Posts: 4,982 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I didn't argue against spreading knowledge, I said that anyone qualified to discuss this topic should already know the information.

    JovoloDartega
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2014
    Cooper said:
    I didn't argue against spreading knowledge, I said that anyone qualified to discuss this topic should already know the information.
    Oh, @Cooper. X_X I understand what you were trying to say, I think. But the way you said it and where you said it, meh. 

    That kind of logic may be great for whatever Achaean combat clan certain players in Achaea are chosen to be part of. But the forums are open to everyone playing Achaea who may be interested in the topics posted therein. Think of all the newly "qualified" people who could join the discussion if someone just did what @Jacen suggested. It isn't as though some of this information is glaringly obvious - especially to players who don't have or have never used/defended against the artefacts in question personally. 



    Nim
  • StrataStrata United States of DerpMember Posts: 1,753 @ - Epic Achaean
    Cooper said:
    I didn't argue against spreading knowledge, I said that anyone qualified to discuss this topic should already know the information.
    This be forums tho. Should probably move the discussion to ACC where people like @Daeir (aka "My system paused because I was editing a poster and that's why you killed me") can bring these nerfs straight to the people that matter.

    A little more about that... so many Self-Qualified Achaean Combat Mechanics Experts who are in a perpetual state of class-switching no-system no-arties no-limitations-on-e-peen-flaunting-via-"discussing"-nerfing-of-every-fucking-thing.
    The last time many of these experts actually did anything was maybe back in 2007? Welcome to the forums! I'm da besssst. Word up.
    image
    BluefNimFeral
This discussion has been closed.