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OOC Combat wiki/Data compendium

DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean
Is this allowed? I'd like to get one going where we can compile things we know about particular abilities so that new and old players alike have one concerted places to look for combat information. The current Achaea wiki seems pretty IC for the most part, or at least not overtly technical, so I am not sure if such contributions are welcome there.
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Comments

  • YueYue Member Posts: 290 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    well, like.. it's more fun to learn that stuff in-game
    SherazadShirszae
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Good luck with that.
    ExelethrilShirszae
  • YueYue Member Posts: 290 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited April 2013
    ummmm.. that's my line

    good luck with your out of character, combat data compendium that completely circumvents a huge mechanic of the game

    I'm sure the community of die hard role-players will appreciate it

    edit: who am I kidding, I learned everything I know about Achaean combat over Skype

    also..
    Daeir said:
    Regrettably, my interest in Achaea is near its end. 
    How does this Wiki project tie into that statement?
  • EldEld Member Posts: 3,946 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    I'd love to see people updating the wiki (wiki.achaea.com), particularly with combat info. I don't think there's a very active crowd of wiki editors though. Bal'met doesn't even have an entry yet, for instance.

    We'd be happy to lend support to someone(s) who wanted to take a stab at really making the wiki useful for combat info.

    (Also, a combat channel seems likely. I like the idea.)
    Given that comment, along with the amount of information that gets shared on forums, without anyone complaining, I think it's pretty clear that such a thing is "allowed" in principle. Whether the existing wiki (in its current state) would be the best place to do it is another question. See the rest of that thread (http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/928/if-you-were-a-newbie-combatant/p4) for some people's thoughts on how well that would work.
    Sherazad
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 2013
    Yue said:
    ummmm.. that's my line

    good luck with your out of character, combat data compendium that completely circumvents a huge mechanic of the game

    I'm sure the community of die hard role-players will appreciate it

    edit: who am I kidding, I learned everything I know about Achaean combat over Skype

    also..
    Daeir said:
    Regrettably, my interest in Achaea is near its end. 
    How does this Wiki project tie into that statement?
    Nobody quits Achaea. Besides, I wasted 90% of my time, money and motivation on Achaea jumping between classes to try and figure out the mechanics to see which class I'd like the most. I'd like to sink my experiences and observations into a place where others can access them and make informed choices about their characters rather than taking a massive leap in the dark into a role they may not enjoy.
    CahinShirszae
  • AgravainAgravain Member Posts: 114 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I don't understand what you think people prior to you did when learning combat? 
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 2013
    Things the hard way, obviously.

    I don't really have to justify why I want to do this to you or anybody else, to be perfectly frank. If it's acceptable in the normal Achaean wiki, I'll start compiling what I know and can source from other people on the forums there. If it's not, I'll make a wikia and do exactly the same thing. Why are my motivations for this any of your business?
    Shirszae
  • AgravainAgravain Member Posts: 114 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    It's more the insinuation that without a combat wiki learning combat would be impossible and you would just quit, but whatever. Go ahead and make one if it'll help you for some reason

  • YueYue Member Posts: 290 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited April 2013
    #1- nobody asked you to justify anything. nobody asked about your motivations
    #2- why did you post this on a discussion forum if you are opposed to discussing it? if you're going to do what you want to do regardless of how the community feels about it, why did you even bother making this post?
    #3- is your interest in Achaea near its end, or isn't it? this seems like an odd project for somebody on their way out the door
    #4- those questions are relevant.. if there's no longevity to your involvement in a project like this, why would anyone bother helping you?
    #5- this idea is counter to everything Achaea is based on: you are trading potential player interaction for static information on a webpage
    #6- is this an exercise in instant gratification by an attention seeking chump or a genuine attempt to contribute to the game and playerbase in a lasting, meaningful manner? (not implying that I assumed one or the other, just a question)
  • YueYue Member Posts: 290 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Daeir said:
    Nobody quits Achaea. Besides, I wasted 90% of my time, money and motivation on Achaea jumping between classes to try and figure out the mechanics to see which class I'd like the most. I'd like to sink my experiences and observations into a place where others can access them and make informed choices about their characters rather than taking a massive leap in the dark into a role they may not enjoy.
    #1- people quit Achaea
    #2- I enjoyed 90% of the time I have spent in Achaea jumping between classes.. if you feel you have wasted your time, why are you playing?
    #3- there's this cool thing I heard about, it's called Achaea, Dreams of Divine Lands and:
    * it has in-game help files, House Channels, House Scrolls, City Scrolls, Ambassadors, Aides, mentors, citymates and housemates, a newbie channel, CLASSWHO, clans, Guides, etc. to help you make informed choices
    * it's pretty acceptable for Novices to leave their House and City and try a different role if they don't like where they started and want to try something else after learning about a new class, house, etc.
    * nobody encourages novices to sink time or money into their characters until they are positive they will enjoy the role they're in.. at which point, they likely aren't "novices" anymore

    if you think your wiki is necessary, have at it but I think most people will be "wasting their time, money, and motivation" on the game instead of the wiki

    all that learning was fun to me... reading a wiki is not

    SyriHayteAveri
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 2013
    Eld is the only person who has actually contributed to this thread so far. Thank you, Eld. I'll take a look at contributing stuff to the main wiki where appropriate.

    EDIT:

    I suppose this was better asked in quick questions and doesn't really deserve it's own thread. Yue and Agravain have taken it on themselves to make this a "post opinions about making OOC data available" thread, so follow up on that and post opinions that nobody will really read anyway.
  • AgravainAgravain Member Posts: 114 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Yeah, I really took it upon myself to do that. The best part is where you disagree with every comment that questions your opinion and then continue on to whine when the same happens to you.
    Yue
  • DraukaDrauka Member Posts: 243 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited April 2013
    This whole forum of "The Matsuhama Arena" is the same thing as OP is talking about but gathered up nicely in one place. I think there are few combatants that didn't learn from this forum and the logs and tips posted. The irony of anyone against the idea while also being on this forum is just too amusing. The data in question already exists. It's just not organized nicely in one place, which seems to be OP's suggestion/question. The data is already out there (here), making it available for all instead of the few the search it out here is silly. Combat is really an OOC venture to begin with. This is like a PTA mom complaining about public schools and juice boxes. Don't be a crazy PTA mom.
  • YueYue Member Posts: 290 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited April 2013
    Daeir said:
    Yue and Agravain have taken it on themselves to make this a "post opinions about making OOC data available" thread
    I asked you legitimate questions about your 'project', which you have failed to answer. As for opinions, well.. I hate to break it to you, but being the thread starter does not make you the thread owner, nor can you expressly prohibit other members from discussing or sharing their views in your thread.

    Yes, most combat instruction is probably done in an OOC manner. The distinction I am trying to make is between obtaining that information on your own out of game and obtaining that information by interacting with other players. One of those things promotes people actually playing the game, one of them does not.

    I like the idea of a combat-oriented wiki. I don't like the idea of a central compendium of combat tricks, strategies, etc. that players really should be learning and developing by partaking in combat in game. It makes your other decisions -- your class choice, house membership, and citizenship, as well as the way you role-play -- more meaningful. Having to obtain knowledge in-game promotes immersion.
    Daeir said:
    so follow up on that and post opinions that nobody will really read anyway.
    as it turns out, sarcasm isn't the lowest form of wit...

    it's not even wit at all
  • SherazadSherazad Planef UrthMember Posts: 956 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited April 2013
    Yue said:
    I like the idea of a combat-oriented wiki. I don't like the idea of a central compendium of combat tricks, strategies, etc. that players really should be learning and developing by partaking in combat in game. It makes your other decisions -- your class choice, house membership, and citizenship, as well as the way you role-play -- more meaningful. Having to obtain knowledge in-game promotes immersion.
    The thread @Eld posted stated something like that. To be honest, it would probably better for the admin to move some of the relevant posts here where people can discuss it more, if they choose to. There's still the problem of how much information does the admin would want to share. Would definitely like to hear about this from @Tecton or @Sarapis or @Cardan.

    EDIT: Removing da quarrel stuff. D:
    Bleh, work ate my gaming life.
    내가 제일 잘 나가!!!111!!1


    Yue
  • YueYue Member Posts: 290 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited April 2013
    fine
  • MannimarMannimar Member Posts: 973
    Best thing I can think of for this idea is something in Matsuhama that has the AB of every skill separated into a class thread. Perhaps, a list of viable ways to kill and then have them read logs and discussions. I can't think of a better way to do it in such a strategy and timing based combat system.
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,128 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    What is this thread for?

    You gonna make a combat website?
    image
    SherazadShibumiYueAveri
  • MishgulMishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMember Posts: 5,372 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    i personally think this idea is like a pineapple addicted monkey. This is my input for this thread

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
    YueSherazadAveri
  • YueYue Member Posts: 290 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    long live lord matsuhama and the teachings of his divine order
  • FrohFroh Member Posts: 52 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Yue said:
    good luck with your out of character, combat data compendium that completely circumvents a huge mechanic of the game


    I'm just going to say that I find this pro/con angle of the prospect of sharing knowledge OOC in an open manner that lets everyone understand how the game works to be quite curious in a game evolving towards buying OOC black boxes (Vadi et al) that result in neither player interaction to transmit knowledge nor even necessarily understanding of what's happening.

    For what it's worth, such public resources were once quite common (fora for various mud clients, sites maintained by various Achaea classes and orgs, open source healing systems, etc. etc.).

    Daeir
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Mizik said:
    What is this thread for? You gonna make a combat website?
    Would that be intrinsically a bad idea? I have the resources and stuff at my disposal to do so, though it'd rely exclusively on experienced people being willing to actually contribute. I'd be willing to set something up like that if there was enough interest on some server space I have spare from other projects.
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,128 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sounds cool. Should make a 'Tactics' version, class by class, each titled appropriately.

    I'd be down to sell out.
    image
    JonathinDaeirWilhelmina
  • AgravainAgravain Member Posts: 114 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    .
  • NaisarNaisar Member Posts: 255 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I wrote a book while entering dear old Matsy's order about how to defend against each class.  I'll see if I can track it down- specific strategies against classes will be outdated, but I'm fairly sure there's some stuff in there that will still be useful.

    Unfortunately what with me not having the file anymore, and Matsuhama getting wiped, it may have been erased from existence.
  • SherazadSherazad Planef UrthMember Posts: 956 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited April 2013
    Naisar said:
    I wrote a book while entering dear old Matsy's order about how to defend against each class.  I'll see if I can track it down- specific strategies against classes will be outdated, but I'm fairly sure there's some stuff in there that will still be useful.

    Unfortunately what with me not having the file anymore, and Matsuhama getting wiped, it may have been erased from existence.
    EDIT: I think I have a copy of that, "A Warrior's Guide to Defence, Edition I"

    If you don't find your copy, I can send it to you by PM.
    Bleh, work ate my gaming life.
    내가 제일 잘 나가!!!111!!1


    DaeirYueNaisar
  • NaisarNaisar Member Posts: 255 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Yeah that'd be great, I couldn't find anything.  You're freaking amazing, by the way.
  • DunnDunn Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 6,233 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Learning by actually getting screwed in combat situations is the best way, but I do think something to give a brief overview of the extensive combat field would be okay. Otherwise you're just getting left in the desert without a map, and then told to find a pinhead in the sand.


    YueSherazad
  • SherazadSherazad Planef UrthMember Posts: 956 @ - Epic Achaean
    @Naisar, check your inbox here. :D
    Bleh, work ate my gaming life.
    내가 제일 잘 나가!!!111!!1


This discussion has been closed.