It'd be nice to have a method of applying this (though generally, many combatants will willingly do this anyways. And it's good practice.). Might help level the playing field in the arena, at least - particularly when you run Arena Events.

Don't like.

yes please

Never hurts to have the option.

How will this work in accordance to artefact weapons?

I mean, after paying 800 (+50 for customisation) per weapon (1700cr in total), I can hardly see it as in any way fair, to have to pay a LOT for decaying weapons that can actually probably be better than the artefact weapons, only to be able to play in certain arena games.

The same question goes for artefact pipes, really. Would it still be possibe to smoke those?

Will the gem of cloaking work in the arena, as it has no effect on combat?

What if you put up lifevision defense from the mask of lifevision, before entering the arena?

And what about artefact packs and such things, would it still be possible to get things from them?

I know, some of these artefacts are irrelevant to combat in many ways, and if they don't work, it won't necessarily be a sort of problem, but it -can- be, if you have certain things in an artefact pack, and they code it in such a way that it won't be possible to get things from the pack. So to avoid this, it would have to be coded to work for all artefacts, but blah1, blah2, blah3, blah4, blah5. Not sure how much work that would be actually, as I have never seen a piece of Achaean code or have any idea what language Achaea is written in

just stat boosting arties not working would be graet for me/.

Also, I don't really think this is something we'll see put in, as it's in some way a minor nerf to all artefacts (or just stat-boosting ones, see Mishgul's post). So people who are almost only fighting in the arena, wouldn't necessarily buy artefacts, which could cause an impact on the revenue of Achaea.

No, I don't want to see this put in

you can still have rampages with artefacts. I'm sure you can start your own rampages!

Translation: I paid for artifacts

Arties have been nerfed enough. Of course, I say that only because I want my super high Int to be able to warp someone to death in two tries

OMG I wouldn't be able to use my hat?

Unfair, no.

I smell a couple of artefact ideas here:

#1 An expensive artefact that allows someone to nerf another person's arties.
#2 An even more expensive artefact for the victim of the artefact mentioned in item #1, which negates the nerfing effect of item #1.

Obviously you can continue this ad infinitum, increasing revenues exponentially without limit.

We paid for our artefacts. If we want to fight without them we will choose to.

Lol you guys are so sad, it's an arena fight. You don't lose anything from it. If the person who's making the event chooses to disallow artifacts, then that's his choice. It's perfectly fine.

This.

And YES PLEASE, GOD.

The only reason I would want this to go through is for all of the low to mid tier combatants who need arena events for house/order requirments but I think there should be a no artie rampage and an everything goes rampage. If you have any kind of artie. U can't get into the first one unless it has nothing to do with the outcome of the spar (like a hat or a veil) and you can use anything in the everything goes rampage. This would give the house reuirment people a way to fight those at the same might/level and it be an even match instead of trying to fight someone of the same might but the person is loaded with arties

Exactly my aim. Watching someone in an <70 Rampages with borrowed Artifacts is ridiculous.

- Good question. Not a clue. Threw the idea on here as it seemed to have some merit but came up in as a tangent in the Matsuhama.

This could be done really easily through arena announce or whatever it's called, without devaluing artefacts. If you don't want people to use arties, tell them, and if they don't like it, or whine, they can leave the arena. Peachy.

Crathen you have too much faith in humanity

Sure you can say that I am biased, but so are everyone who hasn't got arties who wants to see this put in, really.

Either way, artefacts work differently for all kinds of classes, such as some classes get a lot more out of artefacts than other classes. I'm Paladin, which is a class that basically won't get as much out of artefacts as an Occultist, Magi or Monk, due to the difference in strength and intelligence affecting damage, along with how people seem to have higher damage reduction to physical damage than other forms.

So as a point, I'd like to list all the effects I get from my artefacts in the arena:



This statistics, as I see it, can both be used for and against artefacts in the arena. But honestly, I have a hard time seeing how exactly this makes me completely invulnerable to people without artefacts. Yes, they help me tank, yes the little bonus in offense I get is a handy bonus, but I will hardly kill most people using dsl alone. It's also no miracle to take me down solo with the help of pure damage, even if you haven't got -any- artefacts yourself.

Artefacts is a perk that people pay to get, but in most circumstances, it doesn't make a combatant out of a novice, really.

-Firey-

Right that is all well and good, but this is an option for people to set, like setting a level to the arena. I bashed to level 80 I'm not going to complain that I can't join level 1-70 rampages anymore, some people bash to dragon but they aren't going to complain when they join rampages that are no dragonform.

This is just going to be another option so that some people can enjoy fighting against people who don't' do 1600 damage in a tekura combo as a grook or dsl for 1200 every 1.9 seconds. If you want to host rampages where you can use your artefacts that is 100% fine by me, but I would like the option. I would trust people not to use artefacts except that last time I tried to do that, it didn't happen.

Actually, now that Dragon is a class unto itself, the noDragonForm option is -ing retarded.

Stop complaining. You are not helping my cause. I will refuse to make dinner.

Actually, Dragons appear to be able to join NoDragonform Arenas/Events exactly because of that change.

Getting level 80 or getting dragon is not something you invest money in doing, unless you qq work to do so. Yes, people say, "You're just worried about getting stuff you've paid IRL money for", and damn right. They are 100% right, because when I buy something, I want to get the value for the things I have bought, so when what I bought is items in a text game that will benefit my virtual character, then yes, I want to have that, because I paid for it. I perfectly understand that this is simply an option people can turn on/off, but that does not mean it doesn't limit how much use I get for my artefacts. When I buy a couch, I want to be able to sit on that couch 24/7 if I want to, or if I buy anything else for that matter. Yes, I want to get and be able to use what I paid my hard earned cash for.

I also suspect that a lot of people will heavily use this restriction on the arena, thus perhaps as much as 50% (or more) FFAs/Rampages will have this restriction. And as a person who isn't extremely active in out of arena combat these days, due to a horrible internet connection, and lag every evening, that will pretty much limit the combat effect I get from my artefacts with 50%, making them only useful for hunting, which is something I very rarely actually do.

-Firey-

Firey, you make a very convincing argument I must say.

Right and if you want a restrictionless rampage, just ask someone and pay them to do so. I don't see why this would be so hard!

You can choose to host your own damn events and not worry about it then. Don't want to fight without arties? Spar people or duel people or join events that allow artie use. It's also not our fault that you lag. Like Llyth and whoever said, some houses need this so their novices/whatnot have a chance. Hell, even experienced, good fighters need this sometimes. 95% of people simply can't handle Cain, and he's a terrible fighter. He's first on combat rankings though.

As for artie weapons, probably the easiest thing to do would be to ignore them. By themselves, they're really not an issue

...that's what she said?

It's a possibility. If we say that there are now 30 rampages every IC year, and I create 2 of them... And then half of those I didn't make, got this restriction (that means 14), I would have to start creating 16 rampages/ffas a year, instead of the 2 I'm currently doing. Hard work, man.

Edit: Really, if this is something the admin wants to spend their time on implementing, that's up to them. I'm not going to send complaints to Maya about it. But I really want an answer as to how it will handle my artefact weapons though, because I'm not going to run around trying to get a hold of a great pair of decaying rapiers... I bought the artefacts, so I wouldn't have to do this all the time. So, if artefact weapons are banned, it does in fact limit the FFAs/Rampages I can join by 50%.

Or cities could just hold artie-less events and punish people who don't comply..?

i'm not allowed to join a city >( not til i get another house rank waah

The problem is that people with the + str and the +con with sip rings and what not are hard to beat with damage if you don't have any arties to increase your own damage. I recently fought someone with the above health altering arties and I never once got them into the low yellow. So its very hard for a non artied person to beat a tanky artie person. Unless your just that good. And more than 80 percent of the people that don't have arties can't kill those kind of people unless you get really lucky. Now I'm not saying its impossible. I'm saying it takes skill. But the point of the arena choice of no arties is for people who don't have that kind of skill and still want a chance to be able further in house reqs and order reqs that require you to win a # of rampages/ffas or that require you to beat 10 people from every class and each of the people you have to fight need to be +- 15 % of your might. So if you had 9-10 trans skills and didn't know how to fight at top tier. You are pretty much stuck because of all the arties that people have with that kind of might

@Demfrax Being omnitrans and not knowing how to fight is not the problem. The problem is knowing damn well how to fight or a novice trying to learn to fight and not being able to do jack because they die in two or three combos.

Which reminds me,
IDEA: Stat altering artefacts do not work in combat spars. We -are- trying to judge who is the most skilled fighter, right?

Yes. But I still have problems being omni trans because I would like to learn how to fight top tier but I can't because I either die to quickly or can't put out the damage I need to kill them quickly enough in those kind of events and its fustrating

And I agree that arties don't make the combatant but they sure do -ing help a lot

If anything was done to the weapons, they should only lose that added purchasable affliction, I forget what it was called. Asp? Like Mishgul said, this should only affect stat-boosting artefacts and the like. You should still be able to use those artie weapons IMO.

i would also like to point out that truefavours should be a damage shield for bashing only, and SoA's should not block finishing moves such as pound, bbt, dsb etc etc.

Are you really saying that you should be able to fulfill those combat requirements, without having any combat skill?

-Firey-



I agree

If you have to win X number of rampages, with no arties, you are going to have a hard time of it. Some people are just artied the eff out and you aren't going to be able to beat them without being super good at fighting. This isn't saying you should suck at combat and have it handed to you, but I don't see why you'd need to be godly at combat to move up a House rank.

EDIT: YOU have no arties. The other guys do, the cheating -ers.

I would agree as long as it is a specific list of arties so as not to gimp those who only own arty shields, pipes or weapons.

So no stat altering arties or bracelets
no regan/sip rings

I would probably add offense enhancing arties like fangs and knuckles and such as well.

But what I really want

DRUNKEN FFA/RAMPAGE upgrade for arenas

oh where are you upgrade of fun? And for the love of all that is area fun, can it please be closer to 2mil then 7mil

I'm pretty certain no one cares about removing artefact weapons, since forged weapons can be > artes.

Artes like mask, monocle, packs, pipes, hats, sticks, wings, gems, et cetera are irrelevant. The OP wasn't referencing them.

The only artes that should even be considered are statistic altering items. Stuff also like sip rings, health/mana boosters.

Even those, while they might help keep alive an extra hit or two they aren't going to win the fight for you. Pit personABC up against someone that's a better fighter and give personABC all of those artefacts and give the better fighter none, and the better fighter will still win. I challenge someone to prove this statement false.


@ Firey- no one is heralding a ban against aretefact weapons. That's -ing retarded, anyone wanting that should be beaten with a club. Arte weapons don't boost anyone that doesn't already know exactly what they're doing with them.

@ Soludra- lol what? Asp isn't a deciding factor in arena events. No different than a serpent bite or a venom application really, or fighting a sylvan. Besides, Asp wouldn't allow you to properly set up a DSB or Vivi as a knight because the venoms delivered might f- sh- up and work against what you're trying to accomplish.

@ Rynn- ok, so you know how to fight really well but you're dying in two hits is what you're saying? Then you're obviously fighting well outside your class. That's like the worlds best lightweight taking on a brute of a heavyweight and complaining they got knocked out in two hits. Take the best fighter in the whole game, I mean the -best- put them into a lvl 30 character's body and see how well they do against you. (Unless you're fighting Cain, he's OP. Nerf Cain! ILU Cain <3. )

@ Demfrax- if you can't put out the kind of damage you need to outdamage them, then you need to start thinking of other strategies. Infernals have some very unique ways of killing that any race combo can pull off. I've seen Trey, a Tsol'aa Infernal pull off vivisections. If he can do it, so can you! You said about fighting arted people Um, are you advocating that unskilled combatants should be winning?

TL;DR I don't care if this goes through. Won't change a damn thing. Good combatants will still be good. Bad ones will still be bad. Stat altering artes only plz if it does go through. And I say this as someone with no artefacts.

What Boz said


And no I don't want it handed to me because I do want to get better but I don't think I should have buy x number of arties just to be able to tank or be able to kill my oponent with x number of arties just so I can beat someone near my might and add it towards my house requirements



@vasool - no but I don't think that unskilled comatants need to face Mr. Artie to try and learn. If it was unskilled (no arties) vs skilled (no arties) this topic would not have been created but at higher teir it becomes unskilled (no arties) against skilled (with arties) so its hard to find exactly what your flaws are because of all the health boosts and damage reductions and you dieing to three combos


And yes to stay on the OP. No stat altering arties and no sip/regen rings


And for learning new ways to kill people - I am =(

Otha vs Chima. He said so himself it is who makes the first mistake, so they're pretty close. Now then, give Otha SoA, Thoth's Fang, level 3 artie bow, and some boosting arties. Who wins?

EDIT: Chima, not Kallorn. I was close.

Demfrax, If you are fighting someone to learn from them and the artefacts are making it impossible to last long enough to learn, ask them to take them off. If you are fighting in the combat rankings or a world event where it is not a personal lesson and the prestige of winning the competition matters, I don't see why they should have to lose their artefacts. That's not combat school, that's a competition.

I bet you dollar for dollar that I can set you up with Nulaye's full set of aretefacts, buff you out completely, and pit you against an unarted knight your might/level that knows what they are doing, and they will still win. It's your knowledge, not your artefacts, that becomes the deciding factor when it's around your might/level. Now, if you're fighting Cain, who is many levels above you and has twice your health, then yes, his artefacts are going to make it so you die in two hits. But I guarantee you without those artefacts he still wins against you. You don't believe me now, but if you do get really good at combat you'll start beating people who are arted out and it will make you feel awesome.

EDIT:

Ok fair enough. I was advocating that a better combatant vs a worse combatant takes artefact bonuses out of the deciding factor. In that situation it is skill that matters, not artefacts. In your scenario, with every factor being considered equal against two combatants of the exact same skill level, then yes, in that situation the artefact bonuses will be the deciding factor. Try taking that challenge and pitting a bad combatant against a good one, and giving the bad one the artefacts to see if he'll win. It won't happen.

For the bolded I agree but for the OP I think we need the option for people who need that kind of win for house/order reqs that require non artied people to win. But I do agree that its a competition and if the artie people are good enough why not fight without your arties? Are you that scared you'll lose?


As for the Cain part. We did fight in a rampage and I was (not sure what his 4 limb curing was) one dsl away from a vivi but I hit guarding on the last one and ran out and died because I forgot to put breathing up. Now I was happy that I lasted long enough to get that far but then again like I said I don't know what his 4 limb curing was because he didn't before I hit guarding. So if he did restore(mind paralyse) I would have cleaved but I never got that far -shrug- or even if he mind paralysed off the 4 limb break I would have lost the vivi

Oh I agree totally! But I think that is the point..to see actual skill not who has more $$$ or gold to get arties.

Regarding tankiness, it's not impossible to take down someone with 10,000 health if you use the right tactics, even if you are only using damage abilities. I did not get heavily artied before I was 140 years IC (got a +2 belt when I was about 135, then bought some more some years later), and despite that, I could take down a lot of heavily artied people. Yes, they have an edge with their artefacts, they do not win because of they're artefacts though. Even though some (hai, monks) can do extremely heavy damage with artefacts, it doesn't mean it is impossible to hinder them from doing this damage. Demfrax as an Infernal, has got plenty of abilities to kill without using damage, as well as hindering people from doing this massive amounts of damage.

Yes, it requires an effort, and a really big effort, to be able to hinder your opponent properly, but it's far from impossible. It also requires a real effort to actually become a decent combatant.

Regarding the combat requirements thing, I don't see any reason you should not be able to win rampages/FFAs/etc., even without artefacts. A lot of people are doing this.

It is also ironic that almost all the people who are really eager for this to go through, are people I have never or rarely seen fight at all (both in and out of arena).

I'd be more inclined to get into the Arena and Rampages if there weren't arties. If I join a fight with top level marks with arties, I'm SOL and so is everyone else. But a no-artie fight with a level cap would attract some lower tier fighters, and give us a chance to fight. We'd not win, but at least we wouldn't come in dead last as we get curbstomped by everyone and their bank account.

If you join a fight with top level marks with arties... Do you really think you'll stand a chance if they remove their arties?

You're level 77, with a level cap at 80 (I got level 80 when I was 195 IC years, I'm now 201), you would still have a lot of mark members in it, who would still kick your ass without their artefacts. You would have a better chance, I agree, but it wouldn't turn out to be a whole lot easier for you to win, considering they are mark, they fight -a lot-, they don't casually join rampages once a IC year.

Also, artefacts (even stat artefacts) aren't necessarily purchased with RL money... but I'd dare say most are.

-Firey-