It's been brought up at least twice that people want stats to be more dynamic for characters of different races. Changes to the racial stats have been shot down in the past, but I'm hoping that having already worked out the different 'packs' or whatever will make it easier to consider implementing this system or something like it. These stat pack combinations all seem reasonable to me, but if they need a little tweaking it shouldn't be too difficult.





So I've put together what I believe to be a viable option. While you won't find a race stronger than troll... or more intelligent than grook, this should appease many of the people that want to be a certain race for its roleplay, but would like stats that better fit their lifestyle, while not allowing any more stat-stacking than is already occuring, and the default stats for each race will not change, but it will give each person 2 different choices on their stats than just the racial norm.

Basically, you take the race you want, add on 1 of the 3 listed statpacks, and voila, you have your stats. If you have any questions, comments, or input, please feel free.

Here are the two topics I found that have discussed anything like this, for referencing:
http://forums.achaea.com/index.php?showtopic=39136
http://forums.achaea.com/index.php?showtopic=38368

Also, all of the races will keep their advantages and disadvantages, though those could become a part of this statpack thing later.

(If anyone wants to discuss changing these statpacks, send me a message and we can work out anything you feel could be overpowered or completely useless)

Edit: tables coded properly now.

Could you stick those tables in [code][/code] tags for formatting, please?

EDIT: Much appreciated.


My first thought is that I like this idea on premise, barring the technicalities that will obviously arise.

My next thought is that... Grooks have 14 base intelligence, so why should they have a statpack that would boost that even higher? Likewise for some of the other combinations.

Just so everyone knows, the race's original stats are one of the 3 choices as well, so your race won't be getting nerfed by this..



Because Grook's original intelligence is 17, so it's just staying the same with that statpack.

Ah, ok. Was comparing my current stats to your packs.

So min-maxers can continue to use what they have now, but the RP-ers can make a class/race combo not quite as crippling. Well, I like it, mostly because I don't have to watch out for a Rajamala with 16 strength. Reworded: I know that the race I'm up against is either normal or not quite as min-maxed (and thus easier to fight).

Also, are you going to suggest uber stat packs for dragons?

Aah. Okay.

No, I wasn't going to suggest that. But I was considering the possibility of lowering dragon starting stats and having your statpack carry over. I wasn't sure how that'd go over, though, and I wasn't going to suggest it since I've never achieved dragon myself, so I don't have any knowledge of how that'd affect them.

I like. Something like that was what I was looking for.

Nifty. I was going to say that you should leave dragons off your proposal, especially since you can only have dragon stats with dragon class.

Ok. Well I'm off to get some Zs. Please drop by and give feedback. I like to believe this idea has some merit and might make the race roleplay in Achaea much better because people will like roleplaying their race, instead of just wearing it like some sort of stat-skin.

I like the idea, though I doubt anything will come of it. I have a minor suggestion though. Each race should have the standard, current statpack, and then two variations, instead of each race having 3 available statpacks from a list of preset packs. While it's not a huge difference, it will make it much simpler and easier to change and balance.

Another thing to remember is that some variations will inevitably be an upgrade for some race/class combinations. For example, having +1 con and int as a rajamala shaman would be great for bashing. Raja with +1 strength and +2 con also sounds like a bad idea. Edit: I just noticed that resilient wouldn't give them more strength than they currently have, agile just gives them 1 less. Apparently the current stats aren't always an option with your suggested numbers.

What about mhun?

I have to agree with Sena there about the extra stats having the ability to be overpowered in some ways, though I do like how you reduced the base stats to balance that out somewhat. How often would you be able to change these stat packs? Once every thirty levels or so? Whenever you change class? Or is it only when you create your character?

Oops. Seems I missed that. Let me fix that.

I think that should fix Raja and Mhun. I'll take another look at it in the morning. Thanks for pointing those out for me.

Xoran is wrong too, should have healthy option.

And Dwarf should have resilient.

I don't like diminishing returns. Let people be super bad ass. I say this mostly because I couldn't afford my arties until after that (and had to teach extra classes to get them I want 1800 warp.

I like it

I like the idea, which makes sense, now doesn't it.

Rajamala with 11 str and 13 con?

I vote no - all of these changes to stats can be made by purchasing artefacts. Any change to base stats creates a bigger gap for those that do purchase arties.

No, just no.

That's what I'm trying to show, Jonathin. In this, your race still determines your stats, but it just has more options.

Pentharian gave the analogy using D&D. In D&D, you have racial modifiers, and your stats are rolled. In the system I'm suggesting, those racial modifiers have a lot more sway on your stats. If you wanted an orc wizard, you could, but it'd be hard to overcome the negative intelligence modifier.. but it's still an option to you.





The table you're quoting was wrong. The second one has changes done so raja isn't more OP.

I set I'd take another look at it. Here's the results. Good morning everyone.

Also, it'd be cool if when you ASSESS a person, it had another line that gave you what statpack they had.

Have the admins even talked about doing anything of this at all? There's little to no chance they're going to do this.

No, they haven't, but I want them to.

And I hope that if I can make a compelling argument that they will consider it.

Hmm, can we switch stat packs later?

I'd suggest you can switch with reincarnating.

And either make Gem of Transmutation allow you to change statpacks or make a new artie that allows you to change statpacks once a day.

I like the idea

It sounds cool!

I love this idea


Grook Knight would be epically awesome

Ugh. That sort of thing should only ever be an RP choice. While we can make it less epically terrible for players of Grook Knights, we should never make it truly viable. Just possible.

This is basically giving away free artefacts.

There are still quite a few unbalanced race/class choices available when you consider racial benefits.

Bolded is the reason this will never happen, underlined is the reason I don't like it.

Edit: Actually if you combine arties and some of these statpacks, I really really don't like it. I still vote no.

Grook base is what - 8 con 17 int?

Clever Xoran - 14 con 15 int

Arties can't even overcome the constitution difference. Xoran become better mages than Grooks.

No thank you.

- off, we like the idea.

This game is built around two things: Roleplay and Combat. These changes negatively influence one without changing the other.

Suck it up and accept that if you want to Roleplay a grook knight, you are going to be smushed until you become a legend (and buy a crapton of arties). It should be more difficult to RP certain race/class combinations. Period.

Superior race is superior.

This game is built around two things: Roleplay and Combat. These changes negatively influence one without changing the other.

Suck it up and accept that if you want to Roleplay a grook knight, you are going to be smushed until you become a legend (and buy a crapton of arties). It should be more difficult to RP certain race/class combinations. Period.

I want to be a Troll magi, goddamnit.

this would only give a troll 11 int at best.

Grook is only a really viable race for magi, sylvan, or occie, where the 17 int matters and there are (minus occie) defensive/healing bonuses to offset racial weaknesses. At everything else, they are and will continue to be quite sub-par. Xoran is a dynamic race that can function decently at almost every class and quite well at some. That said, clever should probably be replaced by stable, balanced, or something that doesn't boost them to 15 int. I can't see any other race packs that are asking to be exploited, but I didn't look that hard.

All of you need to make sure you're looking at the chart on the second page and not the OP, btw. I really hate that can't edit after five minutes crap.

You are right. Xoran did need review. Thanks again.

No, Otha. it's not giving away free artefacts. People will still want their artefacts for stacking on their stats just as they do now. And it costs a reincarnation to change your statpack, so people will likely want daggers of reincarnation or Gems if this is implemented, so people will buy -more- credits.

The idea of this is to give more options for someone that wants to be a certain race, but hopefully not to give more exploitable racial strengths to those that do use racial stats to boost their combat. If you see any exploitable statpack-race combos, please let me know and I'll review them and change them.

And there probably will be people who find ways to exploit the stat packs, but then there are people trying to exploit the races as they are. And when it gets out of hand, it's reviewed, nerfed, and life goes on.

With the right stat packs and maxing out the stat artifacts. It could lead to massive overpower overload. No thanks.

I'm not asking that this exact set of stat packs be used, but something like this would be really nice. If my statpacks are too extreme, then don't use them. But I'd like to see something like this used. Even if it does mean grooks just get +1 str in a different stat pack, that's fine with me. Just something a little more dynamic.

Artefacts - everything up already. Your point? Give some examples of how artefacts with the two different statpacks would be worse than what artefacts can currently do or your argument is invalid.

Didn't see he rewrote the race stats. Well, just seems very unnecessary.

Ugh

Also a bad argument. I you, but stop posting.

Edit: The below is at Rynn who says arties wouldn't make a difference.

Healthy troll with 3 dex artie - 14 15 15 10

Hurts like a bitch, stuns, has a million hp, and is impossible to hit.

Nevermind!

Mhun - 10 13 13 12

Add in 1 level 3 artie

Mhun - 13 13 13 12

The new rajamala for metamorphosis classes. 'nuff said

Diminishing returns would make so much Dexterity negligible.

Please ignore Darroth's comments - Raja already have 16 dex base, so they would already have 19 with 3 dex artefact.

Doesn't make mine any less legitimate.