I understand that a Tsol'aa is more suited for magical or sneaky combat, but I wanted to try to see if a Tsol'aa can still fight decently as a Paladin.
Out of curiosity - and please note that I just came back from retirement, so I need to refresh on my combat knowledge - I have a couple of questions:
1. Barring the use of arties for the moment, how would I take advantage of the Tsol'aa racial stats?
2. I'm looking to use behead, yet be able to bring a decent spread of venoms to bear. People say that you can't behead with a rapier, but I see some combat logs that say otherwise. I'd like some clarification on this, since my second option here is scimitars(I shouldn't have wasted my credits on broadswords...).
3. I have a free reincarnation available, in case I get bored of using Tsol'aa. I'm looking at Troll, Raja and Xoran as my other options.
Full Version: Tsol'aa Paladin Questions
It is refreshing to see someone that does not want to stat-stack their race. I am guilty of falling into that myself.
Tsol'aa do not have any real disadvantages except that they do not have as much strength or constitution as other races. Fast enough rapiers can pull you back up to speed with other races, but you cannot behead with rapiers. Most use rapiers for their speed combat, then pull out a broadsword, battleaxe, or something large to behead. That's more than likely what you saw in the logs.
I was thinking that Tsol'aa might have some advantages as a knight myself and was looking into it. I believe you can use meteor arrows pretty well with all that extra intelligence. Also, it may affect your rites, and how much you heal yourself for.
Troll and Raja are the stat-stacking races. Troll for tankiness and power. Raja for afflicting speed. Both have large disadvantages, but their strengths make up for them or cover them if used properly.
I hope that helps.
(I was thinking of Tsol'aa runewarden when I thought about this, so meteor/thurisaz would hurt quite a bit)
Tsol'aa do not have any real disadvantages except that they do not have as much strength or constitution as other races. Fast enough rapiers can pull you back up to speed with other races, but you cannot behead with rapiers. Most use rapiers for their speed combat, then pull out a broadsword, battleaxe, or something large to behead. That's more than likely what you saw in the logs.
I was thinking that Tsol'aa might have some advantages as a knight myself and was looking into it. I believe you can use meteor arrows pretty well with all that extra intelligence. Also, it may affect your rites, and how much you heal yourself for.
Troll and Raja are the stat-stacking races. Troll for tankiness and power. Raja for afflicting speed. Both have large disadvantages, but their strengths make up for them or cover them if used properly.
I hope that helps.
(I was thinking of Tsol'aa runewarden when I thought about this, so meteor/thurisaz would hurt quite a bit)
Purity 
purity/arc is the only thing that will benefit from higher intelligence as a paladin.
I haven't actually tested purity, but I assume it is int based. Could be wrong.
I haven't actually tested purity, but I assume it is int based. Could be wrong.
Purity? What's that do?
Magical damage that hits through their shield. The ability Arc can also be used off equilibrium, allowing you to Purity/Arc.
Speaking as a Tsol'aa infernal, I'll tell you that the MAJOR problem isn't going to be your offense, it's going to be your ability to tank hits long enough for behead/cleave/whatever kill you want to make. Purity/arc is a nice damage stack just like Decay/arc is for me, but it's a bit slow to use effectively. I'd still go with rapiers, by the way. There's nothing stopping you from switching weapons mid-fight with a nice alias, and you don't have to be proficient with a weapon just to cleave/behead with it.
QUOTE (Rangor Corten @ Apr 23 2009, 09:28 AM) 
purity/arc is the only thing that will benefit from higher intelligence as a paladin.
I haven't actually tested purity, but I assume it is int based. Could be wrong.
I haven't actually tested purity, but I assume it is int based. Could be wrong.
How would you go about testing whether intelligence impacts a particular ability?
Find someone with an intelligence artefact, and test damage with and without it. Or find someone with different intelligence than you, but you'll have to make sure they're the same skill level, in the same city, and without anything else that might change the damage.
QUOTE (Bayla @ Apr 23 2009, 05:26 PM)
QUOTE (Rangor Corten @ Apr 23 2009, 09:28 AM)
purity/arc is the only thing that will benefit from higher intelligence as a paladin.
I haven't actually tested purity, but I assume it is int based. Could be wrong.
I haven't actually tested purity, but I assume it is int based. Could be wrong.
How would you go about testing whether intelligence impacts a particular ability?
First you try with a sash, then without. Or test as different races on the same target.
I was under the impression Purity/Taint were alignment based, as is hands... If I'm thinking right, purity and taint won't even go through unless the alignment is far enough on either side of the scale.
Alignment no longer affects any ability. All alignment-based abilities were changed quite a while ago.
As a paladin, I remember that you'll get some strength boosting thing in devotion, so your lack of strength shouldn't be a problem, though lack of health will be pretty rough for you.
QUOTE (Borran @ Apr 23 2009, 06:55 AM)
I believe you can use meteor arrows pretty well with all that extra intelligence.
Intelligence affects star tarot, not meteor arrows.
QUOTE (Trey Adwimar @ Apr 23 2009, 11:09 PM)
Speaking as a Tsol'aa infernal, I'll tell you that the MAJOR problem isn't going to be your offense, it's going to be your ability to tank hits long enough for behead/cleave/whatever kill you want to make. Purity/arc is a nice damage stack just like Decay/arc is for me, but it's a bit slow to use effectively. I'd still go with rapiers, by the way. There's nothing stopping you from switching weapons mid-fight with a nice alias, and you don't have to be proficient with a weapon just to cleave/behead with it.
Arc is that move that hits everyone around the room, yes? Or am I badly mistaken and require some correction?
You are correct.
QUOTE (Rangor Corten @ Apr 24 2009, 07:07 PM)
You are correct.
Pardon my undeniably aggravating curiosity, but how would a Paladin pull off a Purity/Arc combo without...oh...say...arcing his allies?
Use it when your allies aren't in the room. Or when it wouldn't be nearly as bad for your allies as your enemies.
QUOTE (Sena @ Apr 24 2009, 09:37 PM)
Use it when your allies aren't in the room. Or when it wouldn't be nearly as bad for your allies as your enemies.
How does venom apply into Arc? Will it use the right hand's venom? Also, if the room had three people in it, and you had three venoms in a weapon, it will basically spread one venom per person?
I'm pretty sure arc uses the left hand weapon, if you have two weapons. I don't remember how it handles venoms, it might use one application for all targets, or one application each.
I believe the venom only effects the first person hit by it from what I remember testing. Also I would like to add an answer from the OP. No you can't behead with a rapier, the reason you see people doing so in logs is because they are wielding a rapier in one hand and a beheadable weapon in the other and I think some bug causes the message to show that you are beheading with a rapier.
Arc hits work exactly like regular hits. One venom per hit, which means that the last venom you apply will hit the first person you hit, and so on down the line. And yes, it's more a combo for when you are the only 'ally' in the room.
QUOTE (Sena @ Apr 24 2009, 08:02 AM)
I'm pretty sure arc uses the left hand weapon, if you have two weapons. I don't remember how it handles venoms, it might use one application for all targets, or one application each.
Arc uses the right hand weapon.
Arc uses the left hand weapon.
nm
QUOTE (Bannin @ Apr 24 2009, 06:48 PM)
Arc uses the left hand weapon.
I tested it, you are correct.
QUOTE (shalishaska @ Apr 25 2009, 11:58 AM)
QUOTE (Bannin @ Apr 24 2009, 06:48 PM)
Arc uses the left hand weapon.
I tested it, you are correct.
Hooray for lefties!
What would be some common tricks that Paladins use in fighting? I'm guessing Purity/Arc would be one of them, according to you guys, and I surmise that it's somewhat powerful.
I was a tsol'aa paladin to start with, trust me switch to mhun asap
QUOTE (Teg @ Apr 28 2009, 08:53 AM)
I was a tsol'aa paladin to start with, trust me switch to mhun asap
Yeah, I'm thinking of either Troll, Raja, or Mhun, with a slight leaning to Troll. That constitution and strength looks mighty tempting now.
Troll is really inflexibile but easy to win with against lower health enemies
Raja is too inflexibile because of sip penalty without arties
If you don't buy arties, Mhun is really good for quite a few classes, but the days when you can behead a lot has been put to an end by widely available good systems.
Raja is too inflexibile because of sip penalty without arties
If you don't buy arties, Mhun is really good for quite a few classes, but the days when you can behead a lot has been put to an end by widely available good systems.
QUOTE (Teg @ Apr 28 2009, 04:12 PM)
Troll is really inflexibile but easy to win with against lower health enemies
Raja is too inflexibile because of sip penalty without arties
If you don't buy arties, Mhun is really good for quite a few classes, but the days when you can behead a lot has been put to an end by widely available good systems.
Raja is too inflexibile because of sip penalty without arties
If you don't buy arties, Mhun is really good for quite a few classes, but the days when you can behead a lot has been put to an end by widely available good systems.
Hmm, I see. Can the balance penalty for Trolls be negated by rapiers with good speed?
QUOTE (Synbios @ Apr 28 2009, 03:29 AM)
QUOTE (Teg @ Apr 28 2009, 04:12 PM)
Troll is really inflexibile but easy to win with against lower health enemies
Raja is too inflexibile because of sip penalty without arties
If you don't buy arties, Mhun is really good for quite a few classes, but the days when you can behead a lot has been put to an end by widely available good systems.
Raja is too inflexibile because of sip penalty without arties
If you don't buy arties, Mhun is really good for quite a few classes, but the days when you can behead a lot has been put to an end by widely available good systems.
Hmm, I see. Can the balance penalty for Trolls be negated by rapiers with good speed?
Depends on what you mean by "negated". It's entirely possible to get fast enough rapiers to disembowel, vivisect, etc as a troll, but these will always be easier as a faster race.
QUOTE (shalishaska @ Apr 28 2009, 11:46 PM)
Depends on what you mean by "negated". It's entirely possible to get fast enough rapiers to disembowel, vivisect, etc as a troll, but these will always be easier as a faster race.
True. Out of curiosity, what was the highest damage can someone do with rapier DSL?
QUOTE (Synbios @ Apr 28 2009, 08:31 PM)
QUOTE (shalishaska @ Apr 28 2009, 11:46 PM)
Depends on what you mean by "negated". It's entirely possible to get fast enough rapiers to disembowel, vivisect, etc as a troll, but these will always be easier as a faster race.
True. Out of curiosity, what was the highest damage can someone do with rapier DSL?
I've seen Rangor do 1000+ damage with his runed soulpiercers and strength artefact. That's really the extreme end of damage though.
QUOTE (Synbios @ Apr 28 2009, 10:31 PM)
QUOTE (shalishaska @ Apr 28 2009, 11:46 PM)
Depends on what you mean by "negated". It's entirely possible to get fast enough rapiers to disembowel, vivisect, etc as a troll, but these will always be easier as a faster race.
True. Out of curiosity, what was the highest damage can someone do with rapier DSL?
I've seen as high as 1.1-1.2k without any extra factors like sensitivity, but that was an extreme case.
Technically, the highest possible damage would be with a 262 damage rapier (the highest damage stat technically possible for a rapier), 20 truefavors or enough to reach any cap there might be to strength, against a target with about 26k health (The highest possible, with bloodsworn, if I remember right) and sensitivity and a highdisfavor or truedisfavor.
I imagine you could get several thousand damage, but I never did finish working out the formula for weapon damage, so I'm not sure of exact numbers.
I imagine you could get several thousand damage, but I never did finish working out the formula for weapon damage, so I'm not sure of exact numbers.
What's the usual balance recovery time, then, for a Troll with 200ish speed rapiers?
probably like 3.5-4 seconds.
With high speed rapiers you can get it down to 3ish.
With high speed rapiers you can get it down to 3ish.
whoops
QUOTE (Synbios @ Apr 28 2009, 10:29 AM)
QUOTE (Teg @ Apr 28 2009, 04:12 PM)
Troll is really inflexibile but easy to win with against lower health enemies
Raja is too inflexibile because of sip penalty without arties
If you don't buy arties, Mhun is really good for quite a few classes, but the days when you can behead a lot has been put to an end by widely available good systems.
Raja is too inflexibile because of sip penalty without arties
If you don't buy arties, Mhun is really good for quite a few classes, but the days when you can behead a lot has been put to an end by widely available good systems.
Hmm, I see. Can the balance penalty for Trolls be negated by rapiers with good speed?
Not really
QUOTE (Santar @ Apr 29 2009, 11:01 AM)
probably like 3.5-4 seconds.
With high speed rapiers you can get it down to 3ish.
With high speed rapiers you can get it down to 3ish.
Ouch. That's...really slow.
QUOTE (Teg @ Apr 28 2009, 09:54 PM)
QUOTE (Synbios @ Apr 28 2009, 10:29 AM)
QUOTE (Teg @ Apr 28 2009, 04:12 PM)
Troll is really inflexibile but easy to win with against lower health enemies
Raja is too inflexibile because of sip penalty without arties
If you don't buy arties, Mhun is really good for quite a few classes, but the days when you can behead a lot has been put to an end by widely available good systems.
Raja is too inflexibile because of sip penalty without arties
If you don't buy arties, Mhun is really good for quite a few classes, but the days when you can behead a lot has been put to an end by widely available good systems.
Hmm, I see. Can the balance penalty for Trolls be negated by rapiers with good speed?
Not really
I disagree, good Sir. I've seen Xenomorph vivisect people as a troll. Soulpiercer speed is 228, which is entirely possible to surpass forging.
QUOTE (shalishaska @ Apr 29 2009, 09:20 PM)
QUOTE (Teg @ Apr 28 2009, 09:54 PM)
QUOTE (Synbios @ Apr 28 2009, 10:29 AM)
QUOTE (Teg @ Apr 28 2009, 04:12 PM)
Troll is really inflexibile but easy to win with against lower health enemies
Raja is too inflexibile because of sip penalty without arties
If you don't buy arties, Mhun is really good for quite a few classes, but the days when you can behead a lot has been put to an end by widely available good systems.
Raja is too inflexibile because of sip penalty without arties
If you don't buy arties, Mhun is really good for quite a few classes, but the days when you can behead a lot has been put to an end by widely available good systems.
Hmm, I see. Can the balance penalty for Trolls be negated by rapiers with good speed?
Not really
I disagree, good Sir. I've seen Xenomorph vivisect people as a troll. Soulpiercer speed is 228, which is entirely possible to surpass forging.
They probably sucked then, Xeno's era did not have widespread good systems, also Xeno had $20k of arties
QUOTE (Teg @ Apr 29 2009, 10:42 PM)
QUOTE (shalishaska @ Apr 29 2009, 09:20 PM)
QUOTE (Teg @ Apr 28 2009, 09:54 PM)
QUOTE (Synbios @ Apr 28 2009, 10:29 AM)
QUOTE (Teg @ Apr 28 2009, 04:12 PM)
Troll is really inflexibile but easy to win with against lower health enemies
Raja is too inflexibile because of sip penalty without arties
If you don't buy arties, Mhun is really good for quite a few classes, but the days when you can behead a lot has been put to an end by widely available good systems.
Raja is too inflexibile because of sip penalty without arties
If you don't buy arties, Mhun is really good for quite a few classes, but the days when you can behead a lot has been put to an end by widely available good systems.
Hmm, I see. Can the balance penalty for Trolls be negated by rapiers with good speed?
Not really
I disagree, good Sir. I've seen Xenomorph vivisect people as a troll. Soulpiercer speed is 228, which is entirely possible to surpass forging.
They probably sucked then, Xeno's era did not have widespread good systems, also Xeno had $20k of arties
Isis with runed 247 and probably an accompanying 243 got down to 2.2ish, I believe. So 255 average speed. Add a tenth of a second from there for every 10 point decrease in average weapon speed.
Also, Vivisect can be pulled off with a three second DSL. Just saying
well technically if you are fighting your average joe who relied on a system without restore you can vivisect someone with anything less than a 4 second DSL, it just requries a lot of time and setup and full set of limb breaks.
QUOTE (Mishgul @ Apr 30 2009, 05:38 PM)
well technically if you are fighting your average joe who relied on a system without restore you can vivisect someone with anything less than a 4 second DSL, it just requries a lot of time and setup and full set of limb breaks.
Good thing I don't have Vivisect. Heh heh.
I just sparred this Tsol'aa runewarden called Zech or Zechs, cant remember. Won all five sparring matches, mwahahaha.
QUOTE (Teg @ Apr 29 2009, 08:42 PM)
They probably sucked then, Xeno's era did not have widespread good systems, also Xeno had $20k of arties
Very true, but the only artefacts which would affect his ability to vivi were his soulpiercers, which are actually not the top end of the speed spectrum.
QUOTE (Mishgul @ Apr 30 2009, 03:38 AM)
well technically if you are fighting your average joe who relied on a system without restore you can vivisect someone with anything less than a 4 second DSL, it just requries a lot of time and setup and full set of limb breaks.
Incorrect. If you're dsl'ing at less then four seconds, I.E. beating restoration salve time, you can vivisect with as little as one limb prepared.
QUOTE (Synbios @ Apr 30 2009, 04:11 AM)
QUOTE (Mishgul @ Apr 30 2009, 05:38 PM)
well technically if you are fighting your average joe who relied on a system without restore you can vivisect someone with anything less than a 4 second DSL, it just requries a lot of time and setup and full set of limb breaks.
Good thing I don't have Vivisect. Heh heh.
You want vivisect, you just don't know it.
QUOTE
2777h, 3788m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|RA|6.5-
Lightning-quick, you jab Crythril's right arm with an ornate steel rapier marred with char marks.
Lightning-quick, you jab Crythril's right arm with an ornate steel rapier marred with char marks.
2777h, 3759m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|RA|6.5- (-29m)
Crythril's right arm has broken.
2777h, 3759m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5-
Crythril applied to legs.
2777h, 3759m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5-
You feel an aura of rebounding surround you.
2777h, 3759m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5-
A series of palpitations of your heart leaves you drained.
2444h, 3759m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5- (-333h)
You take a drink from an oaken vial.
The elixir heals and soothes you.
3053h, 3744m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5- (+609h) (-15m)
Crythril applied to legs.
3053h, 3744m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5-
You have recovered balance on all limbs.
3053h, 3744m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5-
A circle of vibrating energy appears on the ground, taking your health.
2862h, 3744m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5- (-191h)
Crythril takes a drink from an oaken vial.
2862h, 3744m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5-
Crythril applied to arms.
2862h, 3744m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5-
The falcon dives at Crythril and throws him off balance.
[ENVIRONMENT]: Crythril's OFF BALANCE!
2862h, 3744m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5-
Your aura of weapons rebounding disappears.
Lightning-quick, you jab Crythril's left arm with an ornate steel rapier marred with char marks.
Lightning-quick, you jab Crythril's left arm with an ornate steel rapier marred with char marks.
2862h, 3744m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5-
Crythril's left arm has broken.
2862h, 3744m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5-
You take a long drag off your pipe.
2862h, 3744m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5-
You may eat another bit of irid moss.
2862h, 3722m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5- (-22m)
2862h, 3722m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5-
You eat some irid moss.
You feel your health and mana replenished.
3232h, 3830m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5- (+370h) (+108m)
You have recovered balance on all limbs.
3232h, 3830m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5-
A jet-black falcon rips out a chunk of Crythril's flesh with its beak.
3232h, 3830m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5-
Drawing on the power of undeath, you wreathe your hand in black, crackling energy. With a diabolical laugh, you stiffen your hand and slowly run it down Crythril's chest, splitting it open as you do so. With an expert touch, you rip apart his innards, causing a maximum of horrifying pain, and, enjoying the spectacle of Crythril writhing and screaming in agony, you rip out his sternum and drive it through his splayed body, pinning him to the ground to die.
You have slain Crythril.
Defeated, Crythril is cast out of the Arena.
**********************************************************
You have been victorious and leave the Arena in triumph!
**********************************************************
Lightning-quick, you jab Crythril's right arm with an ornate steel rapier marred with char marks.
Lightning-quick, you jab Crythril's right arm with an ornate steel rapier marred with char marks.
2777h, 3759m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|RA|6.5- (-29m)
Crythril's right arm has broken.
2777h, 3759m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5-
Crythril applied to legs.
2777h, 3759m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5-
You feel an aura of rebounding surround you.
2777h, 3759m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5-
A series of palpitations of your heart leaves you drained.
2444h, 3759m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5- (-333h)
You take a drink from an oaken vial.
The elixir heals and soothes you.
3053h, 3744m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5- (+609h) (-15m)
Crythril applied to legs.
3053h, 3744m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5-
You have recovered balance on all limbs.
3053h, 3744m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5-
A circle of vibrating energy appears on the ground, taking your health.
2862h, 3744m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5- (-191h)
Crythril takes a drink from an oaken vial.
2862h, 3744m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5-
Crythril applied to arms.
2862h, 3744m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5-
The falcon dives at Crythril and throws him off balance.
[ENVIRONMENT]: Crythril's OFF BALANCE!
2862h, 3744m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5-
Your aura of weapons rebounding disappears.
Lightning-quick, you jab Crythril's left arm with an ornate steel rapier marred with char marks.
Lightning-quick, you jab Crythril's left arm with an ornate steel rapier marred with char marks.
2862h, 3744m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|LA|6.5|6.5-
Crythril's left arm has broken.
2862h, 3744m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5-
You take a long drag off your pipe.
2862h, 3744m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5-
You may eat another bit of irid moss.
2862h, 3722m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5- (-22m)
2862h, 3722m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5-
You eat some irid moss.
You feel your health and mana replenished.
3232h, 3830m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5- (+370h) (+108m)
You have recovered balance on all limbs.
3232h, 3830m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5-
A jet-black falcon rips out a chunk of Crythril's flesh with its beak.
3232h, 3830m BDCK|T|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5|6.5-
Drawing on the power of undeath, you wreathe your hand in black, crackling energy. With a diabolical laugh, you stiffen your hand and slowly run it down Crythril's chest, splitting it open as you do so. With an expert touch, you rip apart his innards, causing a maximum of horrifying pain, and, enjoying the spectacle of Crythril writhing and screaming in agony, you rip out his sternum and drive it through his splayed body, pinning him to the ground to die.
You have slain Crythril.
Defeated, Crythril is cast out of the Arena.
**********************************************************
You have been victorious and leave the Arena in triumph!
**********************************************************
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