This is my first attempt at a serious post in a long time, and I hope it will be helpful to the people who continually question on how to play a consistent role in the world of Achaea. There will be people who disagree with this, that is certain, but there will be, hopefully, people who will learn from this, and take it into the game with themselves and hold a better idea of their character in their head. Now, I'm the last person who should -ever- give advice on role-play, especially since I've always played paper-thin characters with no substance aside from a simple flaw, but, when I return to Achaea ( hopefully soon ), I plan to follow a strict role, and to keep myself away from OOC interactions in-game. Regardless, I hope that if there are some criticisms, there will be some delightful discussion on any mistakes I've made, any additions that should've been added, and anything that should be removed. I appreciate your patience, and while I do expect some "tl;dr"'s, I hope some people will take the time to read this.


Now, I could begin with a definition, but I think, in this case, it's completely unnecessary to do so, and would waste your time. RP is nothing more than acting out a role, whether it be in real-life or in-game. In Achaea, I think, as well as many others, that it is an important component to the gaming experience of the majority of player's, and adds a certain flavor, depending on the consistency of the role being played. It can be difficult to stay consistent, though, and that's why a lot of people consider RP dead within the game itself, because it is terribly hard to be consistent with the amount of OOC clans, the forums, and lack of reasonable execution of whatever it is the player may be trying to accomplish without having actually thought it through.

RP is a difficult thing to talk about, though. If we make real-life vs. in-game comparisons, we would be laughed at, because the virtual world is nothing like the real world. One can argue that human nature does not change, and although not every race is human in-game, the reality of it is that, generally, when we think of humanoid creatures, we expect a certain amount of humanlike characteristics, be they greedy, selfless, tormented, or otherwise.



Playing your role is perhaps the most important component of RP, and it's one that is generally looked over when someone actually starts their gaming experience. Most characters I've come across are generally well thought out, and they are amazingly consistent, but I have also come across those who have no direction, no purpose, no identifying features, no weaknesses. Only strengths. That isn't a very consistent role, in my opinion, but some might disagree. Whatever their reasoning, it is of my opinion that for every weakness, there is a strength, and vice-versa. That is not to say that a well-played character cannot both have strengths, and find ways to make a strength of their weakness, but there is no such thing as a perfect character. ( I can imagine some sarcastic replies to this one ahead of time ).

Why should you make your character have weaknesses? That's no fun! I have a feeling you're completely wrong in thinking that. Allowing your character have flaws allows a wonderful chance to conflict with other characters, to make mistakes, and to enjoy the reprecussions of your flaws. There should be nothing wrong with being different, and, as I've mentioned, there are ways to turn a weakness into a strength. If your character is ignorant to anything but his devout beliefs, some might consider this both a flaw and a strength. If someone is greedy, this can be a flaw, but a personal strength. Racist, a flaw, although I can't find it easy to make it a strength, as well, given the diverse choice in class/race dynamics within any specific House.

Regardless, a flaw can be as enjoyable to the player as much as a strength can, IF it is well thought out and not forced into everyone's face. A stutter is annoying, for example. If your character has a stuttering problem, it's very hard to not shove it in everyone's face, and, should you come across me in-game, I would avoid any interaction with you, unless it was forced. There are such things as annoying flaws, and there are some which push people away rather than actually contribute to the gaming experience.

The most common problem I see, and hear about, when it comes to playing a role, is that of realistic tendencies. If your character is a greedy merchant who cares only of money, and he is part of the Merchants of the Crown, and is approached by, say, a Naga Serpent who offers him a King's Ransom in golden sovereigns for entrance into the House's estate, the player would say "no," generally, and that would be that. However, if the player thinks about his character, and how his character reacts, I guarantee, the character would have no second thoughts of making a massive profit for something as small as entrance into the House estate. Some might disagree with me, but I don't think I'm wrong in this. This is opinion, not fact, after all.



There are many avenues to take when creating the kind of person your character will be. Generally, I begin a base personality when he gets through the newbie-trials, and build it as I go, usually having a semi-fleshed out character by the time he reaches HR3, but another way of doing things is to map out your character prior to even creating him. Write his unique characteristics on a sheet of paper, write weaknesses and strengths, beliefs, et cetera. It isn't too difficult.
A friend, who will remain nameless, unless he personally requests otherwise, also directed me towards this site : ( http://forums.darkgrimoire.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=6163 ), as a unique way of doing character generation. Admittedly, some things will have to be slightly modified, but it is an interesting way of doing things, should you find yourself unable to find a way to create a believable character.



The most exciting part of playing a role, in my opinion, is conflict. Whether it be inter-house conflict, political struggle, war between orders, debate, et cetera. Unfortunately, a lot of people allow OOC feelings to get into their decisions IG, as I've mentioned earlier with the merchant and the serpent. For example, as I was writing this, we discussed this possibility :

PersonA ( we will name him Tom ) recently acquired the position of Seneschal of the city of Hashan, and his friend PersonB ( we will name him Bob ) is a close associate. Now, Bob and Tom are friends IRL, but, lately, Bob's character is disliking a lot of Tom's positions as Seneschal of Hashan, and sees an opportunity at completely decimating Tom's political standing, but is scared that undermining Tom will have negative effects on their friendship. If Bob went through with this, a dynamic shape-changing conflict could emerge through undermining Tom, but the possibility of the loss of a friend IRL keeps him from doing so.

Would you have done it? I would've. Regardless, conflict is key in a game like Achaea, and without IC/OOC separation, it makes it hard to maintain a believable position. Admittedly, there are those who play the game that don't seem to have this problem, and the scenario I described above is doubtful at best, but it's possible, and there are those who do play the game that would do exactly as the scenario suggested.

What I'm trying to say is, simply put, don't be scared to make yourself a villain. Don't overdo it, but don't be scared to make a name for yourself that doesn't hold some positive light for yourself. Too many people who play this game are far too worried, as a player and not so much as a character, of the repercussions of their actions. Sure, it's a game, and it's meant to be fun, but it's also fun to be the villain, once in awhile. It's not impossible to mend your soiled name, afterwards, unless you really - - up.


This will be one of the last sections I'll be touching on, though there are many more subjects I've not touched, and may add onto the thread as time rolls by. Each character has individual goals. Some people set realistic goals for themselves, become successful contributors to the world and are remembered. Some set unrealistics goals and do the same, but, generally, a new player setting unrealistic goals sets themselves up for disaster.

For example, Tom set himself a goal to gain the position of Seneschal only after he made rank within his house, bought himself a house, and showed the realms that he was an adequate fighter and a brilliant philosophist. Should he have gone a seperate route, and said "I WILL BE SENESCHAL" without planning all the little side-goals he had set for himself, there was a higher chance he'd become disillusioned and back down without actually making any sort of name for himself. I've made that mistake quite a number of times, and with my latest character, I hope I do better than I have in the past.

Goals are important. Set yourself small realistic goals, with a large long-term goal, and it's feasible. Don't say, "I will win Achaea, and that's that." With that road, you're bound for failure.



There are a lot of words written here, and much more to come, I hope, through conversation. But that is the gist of what I believe RP is and stands for, and its importance in Achaea. Please criticize, constructively or harshly, and I will try to see if I understand. I do make mistakes, (lol), so, forgive me if I oppose your way of thinking.

Thank you for taking the time to read this. I had fun writing it.

I'm only posting so that you won't be disappointed.

tl;dr








(I actually read most of it)

Good stuff. Not much more I can say.

A little background :

I wrote this earlier this afternoon when an unnamed friend began talking to me, and I was telling him my plans for when I return to Achaea, and he told me he wished he could RP better. Every so often, in multiple IRE forums, I've read questions, one by myself, asking how to properly RP ( or RP better, as he said it), and so I decided I'd try my hand at writing what I thought was a definitive explanation.
I had help from two different people, and they both gave me ideas, and lended their hands where they could, so, I guess, it's not just my opinion. I just thought this would be helpful to novices who are new to Achaea, or RP in general.

I'm slightly happy noone had any disagreements.

This was a nice read. I agree with most, if not all, of your points.

Wonderful thread, beautifully written Dex.

Thanks again, Azu.

good stuff. i enjoyed it.

i think that the two most important points to be made, almost as presuppositions to the whole discussion, are:

1. you and your character should be different people. (OOC vs. IC)
2. you can't "win" achaea.


i think that over the years there has been a decline in the understanding of the second. i'm not too involved in politics or PvP or anything, so i don't have much trouble with IC decisions being influenced by OOC factors. however, i have definitely noticed that there are more and more people 100 years my junior that are dragons or damn close. i'm not saying that getting dragon is a bad thing...but isn't the luster of that rank sort of tainted when there are 100 of them? it's not the ONLY goal to strive towards within the game.

i guess i shouldn't be surprised though. we live in a world where you can pay a service to level up your everquest or WoW character. i even saw an ad for similar services for a facebook game. i mean...really?

Thanks. I was worried it wasn't going to be very well recieved.

I used to think that these should be obvious. Unfortunately, for a lot of people, it isn't.



I don't think attaining dragon, nor how many people attain it, is really an RP issue. For years now, IG, at least, from my perspective, to attain dragon is to prove to the world that you are a warrior of the highest calibre. OOCly, I just think they had too much time on their hands. Regardless, it's still an achievement no matter which way you look at it, and what are they going to do?

It's known that achieving the level of 100 will bring you dragon. It'd be unfair to remove it. And being that Achaea has been around for so long, it'd be depressing if there was only one or two dragons. Y'know?



I don't understand the relevance here. Have people been paying people to level up their characters?

People just want big numbers. They don't want to work for it themselves, they don't give a damn about the people playing the game with them, or the process or anything, just instant gratification without work.

That translates especially badly into a game like Achaea.

And all the time they don't realize that it's the work that makes the reward at the end enjoyable.

As much fun as your pit bulls are, I'm not trolling this one. I actually agree with your points and had the game you described been the game I played it actually might have been fun. Now most prominent point I agree on is the strenghts vs weakness bit. I met people who could do Nothing wrong why because like bill and tom (sorry if I got names wrong) they were friends outside the game. and personal feelings came in. You couldn't do or say anything wrong against them. Now there were other people who actually got harrassed because of what they did Out side the game, they did nothing wrong at all in the game but they got punished for it inside the game.

I won't quote your definitions because you got it for all intents right. Sad truth is though you described roleplaying where its fun, Achaea..not that.

Firstly, .



That's the problem with any Roleplaying game, though. Even D&D. I've watched a group react based on what they knew from talking to the DM or reading his notes, and when pointed out, they always come up with some weak excuse. Or, if there's a small fight within the group out of the game, the character will suddenly lash out, or something, towards the -player's- source of rage.



Any roleplaying can be fun ( even LARPing, I hear ), but it just depends on who you interact with, and the group you play in, be it D&D or Achaea. I've had little groups of fun, and I've had hideous times where I just wanted to smack someone for going OOC on me. No matter where you go, you'll find that.

I find it akin to playing WoW on an RP-PvP server. You'll occasionally find a small niche group of player's actively playing a role, reacting with the environment, holding some sort of honour, and then you'll get the guy in the background yelling "LOLRP" or "can i hve sum gold?".

There are idiots, everywhere, is what I'm saying. I'm sure there are a nice handful of newbies logging in atm who will actually do something worthwhile ( hopefully ).

What does tl;dr mean? Very informational, Dex.

too long;didn't read

and thanks

You know, I question the whole 'You and your character should be different people' thing. Or I guess I just wonder how people mean it. Because I feel as though in directing -my- character I've simply done what I'd do were Achaea the actual, real world. I think the problem I see with a lot of people's RP is that they try and behave as though the values that apply in the real world should apply in Achaea.

In the real world, for example, theocracy is abhorrent to me, but in a world where gods aren't a bunch of made-up nonsense, it makes a lot of sense. As long as you are really keeping the barrier up between the real world sensibility and the sensibility that arises organically out of Achaea, there's no reason not to be guided (organically) by your own natural inclinations.

As a matter of fact, how else could you really be guided?

How many people will actually allow their actual flaws to exist in-game? They'll be the, -ahem-, perfect representation of one's self, then, no? Admittedly, there are those who will play "themselves", flaws and all, and grats on them. But, Mary-Sues are Mary-Sues and Gary-Stus are what they are, and I can't help but dislike them.

I take your meaning, though.

For Achaea and any other game I RP on, I do the same damn thing that I do when I'm LARPing. Essentially, I take a flaw and blow it out of proportion and balance out that deficiency with something else that the character might be good at. After enough time of playing this way, you can typically find that your character grows his or her own opinions and mindset on issues. I like developing a character over a span of time rather then all at once, though. It makes it easier for me to fall into the role.



I've always roleplayed out Selerin's numerous character flaws even though they've gotten me into trouble and caused me grief both IC and OOC. You'd be surprised at home many people will take your character's flaws and interpert them as you OOCly not knowing something or being just a wise-ass troublemaker. There's nothing like playing a character with out-of-the-norm delusions that'll argue a point that you KNOW oocly is utterly wrong.

I never have an idea of who my characters are when I start them. Generally, I begin with a single idea that is created after getting out of the newbie zone, and going from there. Before that, the character is essentially an exo-skeleton, or a prototype. I love getting in trouble over a created flaw, and having someone believe that that is how I am ooc as well as ic. It makes me smile. Agreed on your last sentence, as well.

edit : hai aoe.

Flaws are the spice of life and good RP, essentially~

I see your meaning as well, but because my flaws are my flaws, I don't have much choice as to whether I'll represent them in the game or not. I think the bit about 'Mary-Sues' is more relevant to less structured role-playing games than Achaea. You can come into Achaea determined to play a character who is perfect and the best at everything, but the reality is, your character isn't going to be, because you won't be. With smaller-scale MUSHes and whatnot, your point becomes more important.

I think, Azor, what you've said would hold water for most players in Achaea. If you've got a main who you're playing all the time then I'd imagine that main and your real life (WHAT IS REAL LIFE?) self would have a lot in common, though this wouldn't hold true for all players.

But that's not to say that it has to be this way. Your real life capacity puts restraints on your character's capacity. For example, if my english skills weren't great, I'd be precluded from playing a well spoken character. If I wasn't good at writing poetry, I'd be precluded from playing a poet et cetera, et cetera.

That is not to say, however, that the capacity you do have cannot be applied in different ways to effect different characters as is the case with people with alts. I have an Occultist alt who is much, much different to Palanor in personality and in play-style.

If you have a character who is basically an Achaean manifestation of yourself (as you've said that you do and, to some extent, so do I) then that's fine too!

We've all hashed and rehashed some of the same points, so I'm not sure who I'm echoing anymore.

Aerek is not me, by any stretch of the imagination. I do, however, make Aerek do what I would do in his situation, if that makes any sense. I'm not a religious leader in real life, but if I was, I'd do it this way... and so on. I've found that playing a deeply religious character IC, while being a very objective individual OOC, is fascinating, as it lets me explore all of the facets of devout religion without the issue of actually being blinded by said religion.

My one alt, however, exists in a completely different frame of mind. To be honest, I can't even speak or think like he does until I'm sitting in the chair, talking to another character. His thought processes and conclusions about the world are so different from my own that I quite literally feel like a different person while I play that character.

I suppose it's all a matter of how much you 'get into' the game. If you just play yourself, but don't really get into the game, your character will be a boring shadow of your OOC persona, victim to all of the flaws mentioned above. So long as you actually do get into the game and act as you really would in that world, then there's nothing wrong with playing yourself.

Most of all, be willing to lose. I wouldn't say that you need to be ready to get angry or sad, but be willing to lose. I've said it elsewhere, but if I were to lose everything that I've ever worked for on Aerek, it wouldn't really hurt me. It might be disappointing that I didn't succeed in those goals, but it's the start of a whole new chapter of his life, or perhaps a whole new story altogether. The fun in creating those new possibilities is just as enjoyable as accomplishing the old ones.

I'm going to agree with Aerek. Tatsumi is not me. However, that doesn't mean I should deliberately make my character not reflect my own personality. If I drink a lot of alcohol IRL, why shouldn't Tatsumi enjoy a drink every now and then? If I hate idiots IRL, why should Tatsumi enjoy them?

I agree with how people say that they aren't their characters, but that doesn't mean the character is unable to reflect a personality.

That said, Tatsumi is pretty much an asshole if you get to know her on a more personal level. She doesn't like short people, people who run around naked, or lesbians. So naturally, 90% of Achaea's female population ends up hating her.

For me its really simple. I am not good at roleplay, so my character reacts exactly like IRL me. I tried to make an alt but, well he was reacting more or less same as Delfador. So I suicided him.

Now that I think, in 90% of RPGs I have played I have been a wizard/magi/spell caster/sorcerer and in lots of them I was named Delfador too..... ......I guess that seals it - I suck at RP.....but hey I enjoy it, it gives intense involvement to the game I am playing !

Any of you are in the same league as me?

Delfador ? I played Wesnoth too.

I enjoyed this bit, Dex. Thank you.

I play each character a bit differently, personally. Some I have an idea about, some I don't. I created Mardosi because I wanted to be a Bard in the Artists house, and I didn't really develop his personality until later in his life. My other characters I came up with a history for before hand, and have just built on that. How I create my characters largely depends on the game I'm playing and why I'm playing it.

Wesnoth is bloody awesome.



Thank you



You make a good point. ( i can't see someone playing their priest the same way in Achaea they would, say, in aetolia ).

Aye, loved that.

What an amazing game.

The only thing I dislike about Wesnoth is the frequency of the updates/re-releases. If I put it down for a month or so, I have to download a whole new game when I want to pick it back up again.

Sorry, I was going to read through the entire thread a bit closer....but I stopped on this.

LARPing is AWESOME....if you get into a good game. I'm not talking rocks, papers, scissors Rawr...I'm a vaaampire. The best part of LARPs are the moments of tension that build when there's actual physical combat and roleplayed consequences and full storylines.

Or maybe I just lucked out and found two really awesome ones and all the others are shyte.