When it comes to rituals - writing and performing - how in-depth should you be? What separates a good ritual from a ludicrous/over-the-top ritual? I mean, obviously there has to be some sort of environmental validity, but that still leaves a lot with which to work.
Should a ritual IG involve extensive interaction between two or more parties, or is that simply too impractical?
I think Neraeos said, in a similar thread a year ago, that rituals used to be a constant facet of the game. But - and I'm just taking an educated guess here - that doesn't seem to be the case any more; I don't know if that changes much when you start getting into Order and upper-echelon House type stuff, because I'm not there yet. Is this change, then, for the better? Or was it that since rituals across the board were up, there'd be more bad rituals, by logical extension?
Any thoughts or perspective in these matters would be appreciated immensely.
Full Version: Writing/performing Rituals
I don't think there's a formula for writing rituals. It depends on why you're doing it, what you're doing, and who will be there.
If it's a periodical thing, in honor of a God, event, or whatever, it should probably be kept short, sweet, and to the point. Say a libation, slaughter a bull, bust out the drinks. (Hi Gnaash!)
If you're doing something more serious, you'll want some ties to actual Achaean history, events, or skills. These make it more relevant, and make it seem like you're not just making garbage up. (Even if you are!)
If you're performing a planned event for your House or other org, you can be a little wordier or extravagant, as this audience knew they'd be attending ahead of time and are expecting (and would appreciate) a show, so to speak. If you're doing something smaller, or something that you plan to spring on folks, you should keep it easy to follow.
Three things you can always keep in mind are:
1) Make sure it flows. This means it shouldn't be too long, time-wise and text-wise. If it takes too long, folks will lose interest, and if you're emoting or saying paragraphs at a time, it can be difficult to keep up.
2) Don't try too hard. As awesome as blinding flashes and murky black mists are when chanting some ancient power word, they often aren't necessary. One of my most common dislikes in RP in general is folks simply trying to be 'too cool'. Don't be afraid to be simple.
3) Be fluid. Know what you want to do, and know what you want to say, but be ready to improvise and adapt. Stuff happens, people forget lines, and the audience gets involved/in the way. Don't panic, but don't act mechanical and ignore everything around you.
Be willing to learn from others mistakes or successes. If you did a forum search for 'ritual' or something similar here in the roleplaying forum, you're bound to find a few to read over.
If it's a periodical thing, in honor of a God, event, or whatever, it should probably be kept short, sweet, and to the point. Say a libation, slaughter a bull, bust out the drinks. (Hi Gnaash!)
If you're doing something more serious, you'll want some ties to actual Achaean history, events, or skills. These make it more relevant, and make it seem like you're not just making garbage up. (Even if you are!)
If you're performing a planned event for your House or other org, you can be a little wordier or extravagant, as this audience knew they'd be attending ahead of time and are expecting (and would appreciate) a show, so to speak. If you're doing something smaller, or something that you plan to spring on folks, you should keep it easy to follow.
Three things you can always keep in mind are:
1) Make sure it flows. This means it shouldn't be too long, time-wise and text-wise. If it takes too long, folks will lose interest, and if you're emoting or saying paragraphs at a time, it can be difficult to keep up.
2) Don't try too hard. As awesome as blinding flashes and murky black mists are when chanting some ancient power word, they often aren't necessary. One of my most common dislikes in RP in general is folks simply trying to be 'too cool'. Don't be afraid to be simple.
3) Be fluid. Know what you want to do, and know what you want to say, but be ready to improvise and adapt. Stuff happens, people forget lines, and the audience gets involved/in the way. Don't panic, but don't act mechanical and ignore everything around you.
Be willing to learn from others mistakes or successes. If you did a forum search for 'ritual' or something similar here in the roleplaying forum, you're bound to find a few to read over.
Roleplay in a public setting has fallen by the wayside. This is the only reason that rituals have disappeared to a great extent. In the last few years the main criteria for judging a city is in how strong it is militarily which is unfortunately detrimental to the RP of this game since PKers usually add little to the landscape of the game.
Best thing is to work with the symbology of the organisation you are making rituals for and you cannot go far wrong. The tone should match that of the org as well.
Best thing is to work with the symbology of the organisation you are making rituals for and you cannot go far wrong. The tone should match that of the org as well.
I like Aerek's points. Nobody likes textwalls, flow is good, breaking things up between emoting and saying things and using items is good, getting other people involved is good. Grandiose flashes and glows and strobing lights and ethereal plumes of smoke coruscating forth from your yearning heart to renew your bonds with the land... have a place, but understatement is often better imo. And planning is great, but being able to adapt is pretty integral. Maybe the quest item you were using as a prop resets, or someone DCs, or you realise you had something wrong in your script, or half the people leave to go raid Shallam and you have to cut it short. Being able to improvise is better than saying "crap, guys! screwed it up! can we reschedule?".
I think the term "ritual" has a lot of overwhelming connotation attached to it. It must be grand, there must be a pentagram and chanting and candles and blue smoke and a Delphinian knowledge of all the circles of the elemental planes, and the true name of the beast from within you are calling up, and you must have a God involved for there to be real results. And that is intimidating and makes them seem like a big deal. And they can be. But you can be way more flexible, and minor things can be cool. Maybe you just sketch a rune on the bar in spilt rum and set it on fire. Maybe you say a prayer to the animal spirits. Maybe you're replanting your exterminated grove, or naming your angel. Maybe it is totally spontaneous and short, or maybe you prepare with someone else and plan out a whole script.
My big problem was always coming up with a reason. Like, I felt that I had to get something out of a ritual-type undertaking, some prophecy or knowledge or purpose accomplished. And that was what I had a hard time imagining up. Or I decided to write up some book of lore that would be "revealed", and create an alt to write it in a journal then mail it to me and suicide so the author was listed as "unknown", and got bored half a page into it. But really you can come up with any type of minor consequence you like, so long as it's reasonable. If you play it off well enough, it doesn't matter how minor or insignificant it is. Even failure can be an interesting result.
You're right that there's less of it in Achaea. Or at least, there isn't much of it at all now, I don't perfectly remember how much there used to be - it's easy to fall into "things used to be better". If you're interested though, don't wait until you get promoted high enough in your House. Chances are you'll just become yet another bored cynical jaded cog in the machine by then! Fight the power. Ritual away.
But nothing too glowy or grand unless it's a special occasion.
I think the term "ritual" has a lot of overwhelming connotation attached to it. It must be grand, there must be a pentagram and chanting and candles and blue smoke and a Delphinian knowledge of all the circles of the elemental planes, and the true name of the beast from within you are calling up, and you must have a God involved for there to be real results. And that is intimidating and makes them seem like a big deal. And they can be. But you can be way more flexible, and minor things can be cool. Maybe you just sketch a rune on the bar in spilt rum and set it on fire. Maybe you say a prayer to the animal spirits. Maybe you're replanting your exterminated grove, or naming your angel. Maybe it is totally spontaneous and short, or maybe you prepare with someone else and plan out a whole script.
My big problem was always coming up with a reason. Like, I felt that I had to get something out of a ritual-type undertaking, some prophecy or knowledge or purpose accomplished. And that was what I had a hard time imagining up. Or I decided to write up some book of lore that would be "revealed", and create an alt to write it in a journal then mail it to me and suicide so the author was listed as "unknown", and got bored half a page into it. But really you can come up with any type of minor consequence you like, so long as it's reasonable. If you play it off well enough, it doesn't matter how minor or insignificant it is. Even failure can be an interesting result.
You're right that there's less of it in Achaea. Or at least, there isn't much of it at all now, I don't perfectly remember how much there used to be - it's easy to fall into "things used to be better". If you're interested though, don't wait until you get promoted high enough in your House. Chances are you'll just become yet another bored cynical jaded cog in the machine by then! Fight the power. Ritual away.
But nothing too glowy or grand unless it's a special occasion.
See my post in agreement with Danith.
Things that are cliche when considering rituals:
1) The elements forming a big ball of swirling energy and making your hair stand up,
2) Rituals.
I don't know, I've just always found them to be rather pointless, unless there is a really good reason for one.
1) The elements forming a big ball of swirling energy and making your hair stand up,
2) Rituals.
I don't know, I've just always found them to be rather pointless, unless there is a really good reason for one.
QUOTE (Danith @ Mar 13 2009, 12:47 PM) 
Things that are cliche when considering rituals:
1) The elements forming a big ball of swirling energy and making your hair stand up,
2) Rituals.
I don't know, I've just always found them to be rather pointless, unless there is a really good reason for one.
1) The elements forming a big ball of swirling energy and making your hair stand up,
2) Rituals.
I don't know, I've just always found them to be rather pointless, unless there is a really good reason for one.
I also now agree with this post, rituals are very pointless..not to mention. Now that I think about it, they always do seem pretty silly in game because even in the spirit walkers it was all just illusions. NOTHING ever happens because of rituals and they all just seem pointless and redunant. The game is about numbers, either bashing or pk.
numbers>rp
QUOTE (Danith @ Mar 13 2009, 05:47 PM)
Things that are cliche when considering rituals:
1) The elements forming a big ball of swirling energy and making your hair stand up,
2) Rituals.
I don't know, I've just always found them to be rather pointless, unless there is a really good reason for one.
1) The elements forming a big ball of swirling energy and making your hair stand up,
2) Rituals.
I don't know, I've just always found them to be rather pointless, unless there is a really good reason for one.
Making sacrifices or libations to your divine are not any more pointless than raiding a city.
Carrying out rituals to ward off ill effects from buildings, organisations or people are not any more pointless than thief hunting.
Achaea is a fantasy medieval/ancient world and a degree of superstition would be natural and rituals to express this would enhance the playing atmosphere greatly.
I agree though that the majority of rituals are either "hey look at me" or like watching an episode of Charmed. Rituals should avoid any supernatural event unless necessary because this overshadows the purpose of the ritual.
QUOTE (Alban @ Mar 13 2009, 01:02 PM)
Carrying out rituals to ward off ill effects from buildings, organisations or people are not any more pointless than thief hunting.
Thief hunting though can deter thieves from breaking into a place though if they get tired of dieing. While as rituals though don't really do anything..at all. Which is the main problems and why people don't RP them. They don't do Anything.
QUOTE (Horuce @ Mar 13 2009, 06:11 PM)
QUOTE (Alban @ Mar 13 2009, 01:02 PM)
Carrying out rituals to ward off ill effects from buildings, organisations or people are not any more pointless than thief hunting.
Thief hunting though can deter thieves from breaking into a place though if they get tired of dieing. While as rituals though don't really do anything..at all. Which is the main problems and why people don't RP them. They don't do Anything.
Sure they do things - maybe not immediate things like give you a dead body to offer at a shrine or whatever. The desire for only short term gain from a game like Achaea diminishes it.
Yeah, nothing ever happens from rituals. Certainly no earthquakes that level temples. Animals were never warped into grotesque mockeries either. Also no kaleidoscopic rifts leading onto pure Chaos. Nope. Nada.
QUOTE (Danith @ Mar 13 2009, 12:47 PM)
Things that are cliche when considering rituals:
1) The elements forming a big ball of swirling energy and making your hair stand up,
2) Rituals.
I don't know, I've just always found them to be rather pointless, unless there is a really good reason for one.
1) The elements forming a big ball of swirling energy and making your hair stand up,
2) Rituals.
I don't know, I've just always found them to be rather pointless, unless there is a really good reason for one.
QUOTE
Sure they do things - maybe not immediate things like give you a dead body to offer at a shrine or whatever. The desire for only short term gain from a game like Achaea diminishes it.
This.
The Order of Neraeos has a lot of good, purposeful rituals that tend to be very "commonplace" in scope, in that they were deliberately written to fit in with the fantasy theme of following a God of the Sea. It shouldn't be out of place for your character to have ways to worship his or her God. I won't describe them here though, as I think it would be much more fun for the curious to find out about them in-game.
I haven't experienced too many other rituals elsewhere. I suppose the thing to consider is what kind of feeling you're trying to convey, and the setting for it. Make sure you have a reason for it, focus on that purpose, and the rest should fit around it.
I haven't experienced too many other rituals elsewhere. I suppose the thing to consider is what kind of feeling you're trying to convey, and the setting for it. Make sure you have a reason for it, focus on that purpose, and the rest should fit around it.
Consider my opinion in line with Alban's and Imyrr's. Rituals most certainly have a place, when done well.
The Wardens have several 'rituals' that they perform. There is most definitely more to them than emotes and illusions, they have a definite purpose, and in my humble opinion, they rock. I've seen novices walk away from them supercharged, ready to study and power-level just so they can become full members of the House.
Outside the Wardens, I've performed or been a part of several rituals with the Lumeni or connected individuals. The fact that few people know of these rituals, sometimes only the people involved in the actual event, is one of the things I enjoyed most about them: They weren't meant to be earthshaking or spectacular. The idea is memorable character interaction.
So as a general response, the key to be interested in rituals is to be interested in the ritual, not the effect or result of it. Have fun writing a story, or taking part in an event between players, and don't ask "What do I get out of it?". Not every ritual is or needs to be a Rite of Prayer or a means to destroy thy enemies.
Outside the Wardens, I've performed or been a part of several rituals with the Lumeni or connected individuals. The fact that few people know of these rituals, sometimes only the people involved in the actual event, is one of the things I enjoyed most about them: They weren't meant to be earthshaking or spectacular. The idea is memorable character interaction.
So as a general response, the key to be interested in rituals is to be interested in the ritual, not the effect or result of it. Have fun writing a story, or taking part in an event between players, and don't ask "What do I get out of it?". Not every ritual is or needs to be a Rite of Prayer or a means to destroy thy enemies.
QUOTE (Mephistopheles @ Mar 13 2009, 07:51 AM)
Roleplay in a public setting has fallen by the wayside. This is the only reason that rituals have disappeared to a great extent. In the last few years the main criteria for judging a city is in how strong it is militarily which is unfortunately detrimental to the RP of this game since PKers usually add little to the landscape of the game.
Best thing is to work with the symbology of the organisation you are making rituals for and you cannot go far wrong. The tone should match that of the org as well.
Best thing is to work with the symbology of the organisation you are making rituals for and you cannot go far wrong. The tone should match that of the org as well.
Do not nitpick on specific words here.
Symbology - the art of expression by symbols.
From your sig....
Trying to act really clever by correcting people for imaginary errors is also not smart.
On topic..... I have witnessed very few rituals but the ones I've seen have been very well done. Things like rituals, performances, etc. give me the same ooc sense of satisfaction that I think a lot of you get from combat. Cyrene is one of the better places for this if it's your cup of tea.
From your sig....
QUOTE
Ignorance is not smart.
Trying to act really clever by correcting people for imaginary errors is also not smart.
On topic..... I have witnessed very few rituals but the ones I've seen have been very well done. Things like rituals, performances, etc. give me the same ooc sense of satisfaction that I think a lot of you get from combat. Cyrene is one of the better places for this if it's your cup of tea.
To be fair, it was a Boondock Saints quote. I smiled and thought of the same thing when I read it.
First off, thanks to all the really good replies - they've given me a lot to think about. Quite a few of them were very-well thought out, and I really do appreciate any amount of time to helping me out with this sort of thing.
Second off, I've noticed that a lot of the rituals receiving cautionary tale treatment are the sorts of rituals that are exacting a change in the world itself - but I think the rituals I'm going to work with, at first, are rites of passage - rituals for a person of Evil or Chaotic association, for instance, coming into the Church. It would seem that these rituals would really add quite a bit of meaningful RP for both sides in that sort of environment, and perhaps do more to herald a change whenever anyone -does- convert IG than "Oh hai, u used to be EVOL lololol" or the IC equivalent thereof. Furthermore, I'd think that conversion is really one of the more dramatic things you can do in Achaea.
However, I'm curious to know if this sort of thing has been tried before. As far as I can tell, it hasn't been in the Church, at least not recently, but for those of you in other Cities or organziations who might have an idea, are there any pitfalls, things of that nature, other than the aforementioned (and I don't know that epic cosmic power and killer smoke clouds would have a place in a tastefully-done ritual of that sort, any way). Again, I'm not asking for anyone to hold my hand through this or post examples giving away trade secrets, but rather, if there are flaws or such in this idea, I'm not the person who'd probably see them, given that I'm already leaning toward the idea, and better RP organizations are good for everyone.
Thanks again.
Second off, I've noticed that a lot of the rituals receiving cautionary tale treatment are the sorts of rituals that are exacting a change in the world itself - but I think the rituals I'm going to work with, at first, are rites of passage - rituals for a person of Evil or Chaotic association, for instance, coming into the Church. It would seem that these rituals would really add quite a bit of meaningful RP for both sides in that sort of environment, and perhaps do more to herald a change whenever anyone -does- convert IG than "Oh hai, u used to be EVOL lololol" or the IC equivalent thereof. Furthermore, I'd think that conversion is really one of the more dramatic things you can do in Achaea.
However, I'm curious to know if this sort of thing has been tried before. As far as I can tell, it hasn't been in the Church, at least not recently, but for those of you in other Cities or organziations who might have an idea, are there any pitfalls, things of that nature, other than the aforementioned (and I don't know that epic cosmic power and killer smoke clouds would have a place in a tastefully-done ritual of that sort, any way). Again, I'm not asking for anyone to hold my hand through this or post examples giving away trade secrets, but rather, if there are flaws or such in this idea, I'm not the person who'd probably see them, given that I'm already leaning toward the idea, and better RP organizations are good for everyone.
Thanks again.
just a few thoughts...
first, if you're talking about rituals for an organization...you should consider two things: if and how it's going to be used. you wouldn't want to write a really nice promotion ritual that gets used on the next to novices advancing and then never again because of various reasons. also, you're going to want it to be easy enough for someone other than you to understand and perform. it would be nice to have a nice, long impact, right?
second, speaking of ease...i think that rituals that are elaborate enough to be entertaining, simple enough to leave something to the imagination (imagination should have something to do with it...it's a text-based game), and direct enough to get everyone home for dinner. simplicity + entertaining + short = fun for everyone involved.
third, i have to say that rituals are an extremely interesting distraction within Achaea. you get to exercise a ridiculous amount of creativity when researching, composing and performing them. thus, they are incredibly personal. you should take that into account in the process. a ritual, however meaningful for the audience and community, is only an extension of you.
finally, gotta throw my two pennies....this game uses letters among its characters. therefore it cannot be just about the numbers.
first, if you're talking about rituals for an organization...you should consider two things: if and how it's going to be used. you wouldn't want to write a really nice promotion ritual that gets used on the next to novices advancing and then never again because of various reasons. also, you're going to want it to be easy enough for someone other than you to understand and perform. it would be nice to have a nice, long impact, right?
second, speaking of ease...i think that rituals that are elaborate enough to be entertaining, simple enough to leave something to the imagination (imagination should have something to do with it...it's a text-based game), and direct enough to get everyone home for dinner. simplicity + entertaining + short = fun for everyone involved.
third, i have to say that rituals are an extremely interesting distraction within Achaea. you get to exercise a ridiculous amount of creativity when researching, composing and performing them. thus, they are incredibly personal. you should take that into account in the process. a ritual, however meaningful for the audience and community, is only an extension of you.
finally, gotta throw my two pennies....this game uses letters among its characters. therefore it cannot be just about the numbers.
Ritual still forms a big part of some Houses and Orders. It is sad that you don't see more of it, but Xaru has always been a Ritualist. If you know where to look, there is a fair bit of it.
Having never been in any other House/City, I can't rightly comment on how other places approach it, but the hints I would give are
Edit: stupid oversight on my part
Having never been in any other House/City, I can't rightly comment on how other places approach it, but the hints I would give are
- Have an aim or intention for your ritual. There's nothing worse than ritual for the sake of it. Consider what is important to your character and how they plan on acheiving that with a ritual
- Stick with a consistent theme or symbolism. Consistancy will improve the overall feeling of a ritual.
- Research! Preferably IC, find out what other people have done in the past. Your House/City may have records, scour the news and libraries. That said, don't make carbon copies, as that's just dull. If you can't find anything at all, do some OOC research on the subject. (I may be able to assist on the latter point.)
- Try to create a distinctive ritual style for your character. Xaru is a Druid, so his rituals tend to have a naturalistic twist. Try and find a niche, then run with it. See where it takes you. If you don't like it, change it.
Edit: stupid oversight on my part
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