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  • AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,674Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I will agree with them being slower and that the kill conditions are more telegraphed. That said, though, the telegraph doesn't help any since there isn't a realistic curing option at any point versus either of the classes, imo.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • CaliraCalira Posts: 502Member, Secret Squirrel ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Atalkez said:
    I will agree with them being slower and that the kill conditions are more telegraphed. That said, though, the telegraph doesn't help any since there isn't a realistic curing option at any point versus either of the classes, imo.
    I might have to re-assess Occultist since tentacles started applying to fly, but Alchemist has a route to safety. Spam FLY to burn down affs and then chance homunc once or twice when you have none, then repeat as necessary. In my experience they can build tempers through fly spam, but they can't really kill you with just tempers.
  • KietKiet Posts: 2,791Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 23
    Armali said:
    Don't twist my words to push an agenda. I got beaten because I wasn't careful and likely would've been beaten again if I was less careful, Likewise, the serpent I was fighting had no excuse for dying, because my setups were 100% escapable.
    ? You said you slow prepped serpents when people said it wasn't possible, I agreed. Weird reaction. I don't really have an agenda since you can't fix prep vs momentum very easily and I don't really care that much about 1v1 anymore. Plus, I also have 3 prep classes now lol.

    I'd agree with people above that occultist is the strongest vs slow prep because of mobile chase, and tentacles lasts, what, 2 minutes? vs pinshot's relatively low duration. Occultist seems to deal with shield better once you have some affs, too, and they don't have to worry about rebounding. The idea that you can't really easily slow prep serpent is weird to me, though. Fitness-only users are the only ones that might struggle here, and that's just infernal + monk (and sent, I guess). Monk can stop serpent offense in its tracks whenever it wants without even leaving the room.
  • JarrodJarrod Posts: 2,991Member, Seafaring Liason @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It's ok if prep is greater than momentum in 1v1, because the real game is 2v2 and momentum is king of the world there.
    image
    Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."

    KietAtalkezFarrah
  • KietKiet Posts: 2,791Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I dunno man some limb comps are really strong. I'd generally take momentum in small group fights tho ya.
  • AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,674Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Disagree entirely that serpent is easy to slow prep, or that monk can “stop it in its tracks”. 


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • CaliraCalira Posts: 502Member, Secret Squirrel ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited April 24
    Occultist has a really relevant weakness here that other momentum classes don't really share. The exact point where it starts to become deadly is when Cadmus Curse is applied, and that's accompanied by a dip in momentum. Any sufficient burst hinder or burst cure at this point will totally reset their momentum, as hitting 0 affs will cure the Cadmus Curse. The Tentas buff removed the perfect answer to Cadmus that every class had access to before, but there's still a lot of class-specific answers. Hangedman and Fool, fast breaks and prone (TekMonk, DWB), Dragonheal, Evade or Phoenix, Wunjo/Nairat or noose traps, Vodun Bind or Tarnel, Blackwind, that sort of thing. The Occ can throw a curveball with Unnamable, but the counterplay to Unnamable is similar, and you can't really threaten Unnamable and Cadmus Curse at the same time without a lot of momentum already built up.
  • ReysonReyson Posts: 490Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    You can't hangedman twice in a row, so I'm not sure I buy that one. Prone, if you're sitting on a leg break just for defensive purposes, sure, I suppose, but that seems like it might require some good luck, timing-wise. dragonheal will definitely not outpace occie affliction rate; evade is definitely good, but unless the occultist is hamstrung/pinshotted, can just mountjump to follow; nairat definitely won't save you since it's so quick to writhe from, blackwind is slower now (and Infernal has no passive cure, so it's a brutal matchup to begin with), and I'm not sure how much you can spam vodun bind, but if the writhe time is just ropes, that's not really a huge breather, unless the shaman really really knows the occultist's balance and is able to match up with it well (I dunno how slow bind is, vs. the writhe time, vs. occie's offence bals, but I can't imagine the balance is faster than writhing takes). 

    In the end, of course you -can- survive anything, mostly by not fighting it, but why is that ever a desirable state of affairs? 
  • AccipiterAccipiter Posts: 338Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    So are we going to move into a new phase of 'slow momentum' where momentum classes phase/blackwind/astral when the slow preppers run away and wait for the damage to drop off?
    Reyson
  • PyoriPyori Posts: 509Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited April 24
    Reyson said:
     I'm not sure how much you can spam vodun bind, but if the writhe time is just ropes, that's not really a huge breather, unless the shaman really really knows the occultist's balance and is able to match up with it well
    Ask @Ashmond about when he was Occultist, sparring me as Shaman. Insta vodun bind the second he cadmus's, fucks the occie over hard. Bind is ~1.8s with nimble, writhe is like 2x as long almost. If feeling exceptionally scummy, can projection over icewall on bal immediately after bind, before they writhe. With Tarnel changes coming, that's only gonna get worse for the occie.

  • CaliraCalira Posts: 502Member, Secret Squirrel ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited April 24
    Reyson said:
    You can't hangedman twice in a row, so I'm not sure I buy that one.
    That's true, but a well-timed hangedman can get you 2 cures in, which is enough with tree to burst down to 0 after the fastest possible Cadmus. And if not, Fool will easily close the rest of the gap. The point is that Cadmus comes with a natural dip in pressure, which makes it a convenient moment to go on the defensive and, ideally, clear the aff away. Dragonheal does this really well, as @Armali has proven every time we spar. Blackwind/Aform/Mistral are even worse, since the Occ has no way to kill you post-Cadmus in 2.5s and not even a good way to prone you given that short notice, those abilities are a free disengage. You could even start the blackwind on Madness/Hecate and be fine. Bind is exceptionally fast and has no CD, making it somewhat spammable, and Shaman can actually get fashions fast enough for it to be relevant.
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