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A new player's experience.

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  • MinifieMinifie Posts: 1,385Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Tahquil said:
    Not really....  Just attention hungry.
    Strange I thought that's why we were all playing this game.
    Elipise
  • TruaxTruax Posts: 86Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited January 8
    Beenie said:
    So, I had an interesting experience today.

    I started a new character.

    Now, I am not a new player. I have played this game for between 10-15 years. I've been around for a long time, not as long as some, but longer than many. I've always played the same character. Today, I decided that I wanted to change up the experience a little. So, I created a Jester. I rushed through the tutorial/newbie areas and made my way into the world. 

    I won't claim to be all-knowing about Achaea (or even close), nor have I kept up entirely with the history, lore, changes, etc., but I am mostly quite familiar with the world. Being an old player, my main character is pretty respected and treated well in almost all cases. But, oh the difference for a newbie.

    I start this Jester off pretty quickly. Get to about level 20 no problem. I'm exploring the lands, doing a bit of shopping, and then I meet a couple of young characters in a tavern. I quickly use this opportunity to use my new Jester abilities to have a helluva lot of fun casting humorous illusions and blowing up balloon giraffes and performing/entertaining in general. I'm laughing, my character is laughing, the other characters are laughing. What a great time...

    Then, I get a tell from another Jester wanting to recruit me into their House, which I then join and I'm out and about shopping when I meet up with said character. It's friendly of course at first, but then, as I express some trepidation about the (from the char's perspective) enormous undertaking that seems to be the joining of a house, I start to feel a slight tug of resistance in my newly met colleague. My character explains that he doesn't really like the idea of being regulated and limited (never really got the chance to explain what I meant by this -- just didn't want to feel like I had to be constantly accomplishing tasks and baby-sat and expected to be some big achiever -- my experience with Houses learned during play of my main char). Of course, I'm informed that regulations are necessary to prevent whatever and yada yada. I'm then told that the city my character is in would be far more constrictive, so my character quits his city (not really a player choice, so much as an RP decision, though I do start to recall reading scrolls about it being highly suggested or required to do this, that, and the other in said city as a novice). By this point, I'm starting to become aware that I may be frustrating this other Jester as well as yet another character (I believe also a Jester) that has joined us. So, in my attempt at a bit of humor, I illusion a sad clown cliche -- a small raincloud floating in over my characters head and my character states "all this talk about... is making me a sad clown". The characters respond with a quick "jesters are not clowns, but we'll leave you to your thoughts. Good luck." and leave the area before I can really even respond.

    Okay. Not so bad, but a little annoying because I was actually kind of genuinely trying to get their assistance, albeit in a humorous way befitting a class with this namesake and considering the house I had joined makes it a priority to be comedic. So, I promptly quit the house and joined another city -- one that they actually suggested would be a good fit. I say my greetings and then: "I think I just got some 'tude from some Jesters". My kind of light-hearted, though admittedly unnecessary attempt at expressing my disappointment. Granted, I know emotion doesn't always translate well via text.

    I get a reply: "You're about to get some more tude. buddy. [sic]"

    "wait... what?"

    I'm informed some members of my previous house are citizens of this new city; that I should not speak poorly of this character's housemates. I'm told to tread lightly by another. 

    What in the hell kind of welcome is this? If I were a new player I would be out of here! I wasn't trying to make any waves and my character expressed as much via the proper communication channels, and then offered an apology (which was accepted). But, no one said to me 'sorry, maybe it was all just a misunderstanding' or whatever.

    One character did, thankfully, show up at my characters location, quickly worked to be a listening ear and a calming presence, and gave me a generous lump of gold to get me started. He also provided me with some advice and patiently answered my questions about this new class I was taking on. (I'm a seasoned player, but I've been dormant for quite some time over the years and there have been a lot of changes as of late that I needed some clarification of).

    So, eventually he leaves to go tend to something and I go about my way hunting. After about a total of maybe 4 hours of playing I get a notice that my character name has been reviewed and is unacceptable. Please read HELP NAMES yada yada yada. My character's name was Bullet. I guess it's unacceptable because it's offensive? I read through all the recommendations and criteria, etc., and that seemed to be the best reason. Fine. But, by this time I'm getting pretty heated. I've just had two characters short with me, one character (at least) threaten my character, and now after 3 or 4 hours of playing I'm told my name is unacceptable with no explanation why.

    So...

    Bullet -- I get it. It's probably because it's offensive. I didn't mean for it to be. It's short for Bullet Rodson/Bulletrodson a nickname of fictional character I've played in other rpgs. It's a nickname and is in no way intended to be associated with the ammo or any kind of weapon. But, even if it was, uh... we're playing a game where you can decapitate and mount heads on pikes. Further, bullet is the name of ammo for a shepherd's sling according to Baldur's Gate. So, to me it's a fine fitting name for a jester in a medieval/fantasy environment. In fact, I loved this name and the first character I interacted with complemented me on it. The -first- character I met complemented my character on his name. 

    Secondly, a jester is not a clown. I understand. But, it's basically a clown. Yeah, a shoe is not a boot. A truck is not a car. I get it. But, really? I've played this game for almost 15 years and I've always thought of Jesters as goofy, fun loving (or mischievous, if evil) characters. Like a clown. I promise I am not the only one. The main House is named Carnivalis. Carnival. Do you see jesters or clowns at carnivals? Maybe both. I typically see clowns.

    Thirdly, who cares? It's a game. Stop taking this so damn seriously. It's good to have some ground rules about how humorous things can be and whatnot, but there is a location in Achaea called Bopalopia that you get to by eating mushrooms and you escape by tickling a cat in a hat. It's okay to have some humor.

    Had I not been a veteran player, would I still be around? Likely not. The welcome that I received with this new character was downright ridiculous, barring a few select individuals. Is this community truly as elitist as the impressions I got. Have I been blind to it all these years? How many new adventurers have we turned away because of similar encounters. Achaea is not just a game, it's a business. This could have actual economic implications.

    With that said, I love Achaea. I love the community that I've gotten to know through my main character. And, I don't mean for this to be a personal attack on anyone. I just had to say something. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. 
    I'm sorry you had a negative experience, but I do think you're probably reading some of these interactions through the eyes of a more experienced player. They don't necessarily translate to what a true newcomer might think about the interactions because you're going into it with some preconceived ideas about how people should treat your newbie, interact with newcomers in general, etc.

    As someone who plays a pretty stern individual until you get to know her (which requires advancing in the House to the point that she believes you're worth getting to know), I'd suggest that what these players may have been trying to convey is a sense of their organization's ethos and culture by letting you know straight up that clowning around isn't looked upon kindly.

    It wouldn't really do much good to let you continue with that and believe that you'd be getting anywhere in their org if that's not the case, would it?

    Regarding the citizenship thing, that's true: Ashtan doesn't permit people to be members of the CIJ or any House outside of those in our city. That helps us bring around cohesion around our ethos and goals and is fairly common in factional cities. Right or wrong, it does have some reasoning behind it. 

    If I'm being honest, it's odd to me that you don't seem to know any of this, yet you said you've been around for quite a while on your main. Perhaps you're returning from a slumber and getting hit with a little bit of culture shock yourself because the game's changed a bit since you were last here? Just curious!
    KyrraTrilliana
  • KyrraKyrra Sanctum of the SkyPosts: 4,477Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    For an extremely long time, the CIJ was rampant with idiocy and for a brief while, even prostitution. The house had lost all creative substance and I actually avoid having anything to do with members of the house even though Vastar still patrons them. I'm positive that I'm not the only person with this mindset either.

    If the CIJ is working to remedy this, good for them, but I'd look to the Virtuosi in Cyrene for any sort of entertainment value first and foremost.

    In regards to novice experiences, I can say this: I've played a lot of alts and being a novice aide, I've also dealt with a lot of alts. I've also dealt with genuinely new characters that are exploring factions and figuring out what best suits them. A lot of time can be invested in new characters that either leave or suicide (or in some cases, retire) and it can sometimes feel like a wasted effort because you don't get to see that character grow and become more in your organisation. As a result, many people are going to want to wait and see if someone is going to stick around before making the effort to really get to know someone and make them feel included because more often than not, that person is gone the next day.

    It's not a great cycle that exists but it is there nonetheless. People that are genuinely new often suffer because of it as a result and it means that they aren't getting the warm welcome and enthusiasm to stick around and be a part of things. I think the OOC knowledge that people are alts also contributes to this because while I understand that they don't want you wasting time on them unnecessarily, they are also giving up opportunities to get to know people and create those budding relationships which should be impactful to have.

    As someone that has been playing Achaea for so long though, I'm not at all surprised to find things are the way they are. At the end of the day, this is a game that people play for whatever reason and their time is a precious resource that they are usually reluctant to waste on people that won't stick around. Some people will and those people are fantastic, but I don't find fault with the people who don't want to.

    As for the name Bullet, it makes me think of adult toys and that's inappropriate :)
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

  • MinifieMinifie Posts: 1,385Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Aralaya said:
    Nazihk has had some run-ins with clowns.

    I'm guessing... 5th birthday?
    yes, that's why he didn't accept the invite to yours.
    AralayaKriexNyneve
  • AralayaAralaya Posts: 777Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Minifie said:
    Aralaya said:
    Nazihk has had some run-ins with clowns.

    I'm guessing... 5th birthday?
    yes, that's why he didn't accept the invite to yours.
    Yeah, he's rude like that
     :'( 


    Tecton-Today at 6:17 PM

    teehee b.u.t.t. pirates
  • LyrinLyrin Posts: 144Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Wait, Tesha isn't a Jester?
    Shirszae
  • BeenieBeenie Posts: 8Member
    As I'm understanding it, there was so much stupidity going on, Jesters lost all honour and respect, CiJ cracks down, and we stand where we stand. It just sends a lot of strange messages to have a class where you give noogies, ride around on balloon giraffes, float into the sky with balloons, deploy itch powder, have a power of bad jokes, litter the floor with bananas as a fighting technique, and yet adventurers get upset when you try to roleplay a clown. Add in all the documentation contained within the CiJ help files and it becomes even more confusing. 

    Also, I don't necessarily think that you have to be an ADHD, lolsorandom, maniac. I was kind of taking aim at a deranged, melancholy clown, personally. But, the thing about clowns: you aren't really supposed to take them seriously, even if they're sad. They're funny when their sad. They're just caricatures, and, while I don't believe that the Jester class was explicitly designed for such a role, there is no class better to play it out.
    Cede
  • AlyxeriAlyxeri Posts: 467Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Nazihk said:

    If you are RPing a clown and everybody hates you, then you should be happy because that means you're doing a good clown impersonation.

    Shirszae
  • JinosJinos Posts: 7Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Jester has a lot of whimsy built into it, but it can easily get out of hand. 

    What antics people find amusing for a few minutes, becomes grating after awhile. I'm sure people have encountered someone who is performing all the time, twenty-four seven. And that can be jarring. 

    A class should add to the role you're playing, not overwhelm it. 

    I've enjoyed playing someone who had to perform on the streets for a living when they were younger. That afforded me a lot of leeway to expand and intereact with people, explore the humanity behind the facepaint and the laughter. 

    That's not to say jesters can't be as whimsical or as creative as they want.

    But people want to get to know the person behind the paint at some point, you know? When they get the impression that that's all there is to someone, an act, a caricature. It oddly ends up taking away the mystique. And all hope for better interactions.  :)
    ShirszaeLucianusSenaCede
  • LucianusLucianus Posts: 403Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Although it is not for everyone. Factional jesters are really entertaining. Yeah, it can be a bummer to feel like you're locked into something. But it can be a creative challenge trying to balance the motivation of your character and the bigger picture of a conflict driven org.

    To me. Jestering is an art and how your character utilizes that to serve them is the high point of Jester RP.

    For example, Jesters entertain both nobility and the poor, allowing them to fit anywhere in society. That is a powerful RP tool. You can RP as a talented spymaster or a wise vagabond who has moved up and down through all parts of society's ladder.

    They got powerful symbolism. In the Tarot, a Jester is often associated with the Fool, but they are also associated with Death. As Death is often depicted in a Jester's garb in medieval times due to the saying, "The last laugh is reserved for Death." Which supposively humbles everyone just like how a Jester makes fun of everyone regardless of their standing.

    New Jesters shouldn't limit themselves to being Clowns. Aa even clowns of today try to be more than just a stereotype (it's literally an art and a way of life for them). Seperate the art from the person and then build a story around that person. More interesting that way.
    That is not an ordinary star, my son. That star is the tear of a warrior. A lost soul who has finished his battles somewhere on this planet. A pitiful soul who could not find his way to the lofty realm where the great spirit awaits us all.

    Free Community System for Achaea: TReX System <link here>
    - I have decided to become involve in developing and maintaining this community system for Achaea. Feel free to message me in-game or on forum for help or bugfixing.
    Jinos
  • FaurFaur Posts: 151Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Might I recommend the Puddles Pity Party YouTube channel? It seems apt...
    TrillianaTruaxAziikCede
  • CedeCede Posts: 6Member
    edited January 13
    Freeling said:
    I kiiiinda know what you're talking about with the CiJ. Freeling is a jester so tried to join them as a first choice, but went elsewhere after getting a very "Jesters are not clowns" reaction from them. Which is fine, they were very polite about it, but I wanted her to be a bit of a prankster and silly and that didn't fit in well with what they want their house to represent, I guess. I joined the Virtuosi instead and have been very happy there.
    Um, what?!

    Edit: especially the bolded
  • CedeCede Posts: 6Member
    Kyrra said:
    For an extremely long time, the CIJ was rampant with idiocy and for a brief while, even prostitution. The house had lost all creative substance and I actually avoid having anything to do with members of the house even though Vastar still patrons them. I'm positive that I'm not the only person with this mindset either.
    Two comments in one thread have now surprised me.
  • CedeCede Posts: 6Member
    Faur said:
    Might I recommend the Puddles Pity Party YouTube channel? It seems apt...
    That guy is awesome.
  • WicellaWicella Posts: 113Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I think the biggest problem people are missing from this thread is that this isn't just a one off occurrence. Player retention is a hugeee deal. After all, wouldn't we have more fun if more people were playing and there were more people to combat and rp with? I don't know about everyone else, but the most exciting part of getting raided is seeing new Mhaldorian scrubs that are about to get their butts whooped!

    Anyway...

    First impressions on new novices (or people returning after a long time) can make or break whether that person sticks with Achaea. Does it suck sometime to have to be nice to someone that's getting on your nerves? Yes.  Do I wish I didn't have to repeat the same thing to one novice after another for 80% of them to never return? Definitely. Is it worth it in the long run to nicely point them towards sanity or help files rather than shun them for not knowing every intricate rule of the game we've all played for 5+ years?   Hell yes.  
    Cede
  • TruaxTruax Posts: 86Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited January 14
    Wicella said:
    I think the biggest problem people are missing from this thread is that this isn't just a one off occurrence. Player retention is a hugeee deal. After all, wouldn't we have more fun if more people were playing and there were more people to combat and rp with? I don't know about everyone else, but the most exciting part of getting raided is seeing new Mhaldorian scrubs that are about to get their butts whooped!

    Anyway...

    First impressions on new novices (or people returning after a long time) can make or break whether that person sticks with Achaea. Does it suck sometime to have to be nice to someone that's getting on your nerves? Yes.  Do I wish I didn't have to repeat the same thing to one novice after another for 80% of them to never return? Definitely. Is it worth it in the long run to nicely point them towards sanity or help files rather than shun them for not knowing every intricate rule of the game we've all played for 5+ years?   Hell yes.  
    There is a thin line between what someone may perceive as 'being nice' and someone else may perceive as their character simply being who they are: Stern, authoritarian, no nonsense, etc.

    That said, even with all her savagery, Tru's interactions with newcomers are never purposefully unkind or impatient for exactly the reasons you noted. 

    Taking the time to privately tell someone if they're acting in ways that others may find disdainful, annoying, or outside the realm of acceptable social norm should be part of the role of any ambassador or newcomer aide. But it doesn't take but a minute to preface such a conversation with, "I'm sharing this with you because I want you to be your best/most evil/chaotic self." 

    What this OP seemed to be saying though was that they wanted to RP one way and the House's ethos was headed in another direction. That's the equivalent of someone wanting to be Eleusian, but only interested in chopping down trees to clear the space for new plant growth. It might make sense to the person RPing it, but I wager the city's members wouldn't necessarily be behind buying the person an endless supply of axes. 

    ShirszaeWicella
  • CobaultCobault Posts: 87Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Sobriquet said:
    That said, if I were to start as a true newbie today in Achaea I wouldn't be around long. 

  • TorinnTorinn Posts: 695Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I would be!  Negative reactions aren't a bad thing in an RP focused game.  Take it in stride and use it to build your character or interesting stories.  I'd either shape up or go somewhere else and probably start a story arc about getting vengeance on the hypocrites or something like that.  Good stories (and Achaea is a story about your character) thrive on conflict.
    Deucalion says, "Torinn is quite nice."
    Kyrra
  • SobriquetSobriquet Posts: 1,813Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Negative reactions are fine. I mean the sheer amount I would need to do just to even get my class skills, let alone some basics in other skillsets such as parry for PvP or clot for PvP or PvE, selfishness too (although that's been brought down with the theft changes). All those things add up. 

    The recent veil and gem changes have been excellent as it' really made the game feel bigger and more populated. I'm seeing people over 200yrs old I never knew existed. Achaea advertises itself saying you can do all these amazing things, which you can, but I've lost count of the number of people in Hashan wanting to learn their tradeskills and became merchants only to be told it's not really a good idea. 
    image
    ShirszaeJacenAziikAntidas
  • AziikAziik Posts: 65Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I've been curious about that, if you make connections and find funding someway why shouldn't you just go into tradeskills? I argued against this while I was in Cyrene. I've met a few players (very few to be fair) that have nothing towards there class skills and were enjoying the game for quite a while.


    Cailin
  • XadenXaden Posts: 2,198Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sobriquet said:
    Negative reactions are fine. I mean the sheer amount I would need to do just to even get my class skills, let alone some basics in other skillsets such as parry for PvP or clot for PvP or PvE, selfishness too (although that's been brought down with the theft changes). All those things add up. 

    The recent veil and gem changes have been excellent as it' really made the game feel bigger and more populated. I'm seeing people over 200yrs old I never knew existed. Achaea advertises itself saying you can do all these amazing things, which you can, but I've lost count of the number of people in Hashan wanting to learn their tradeskills and became merchants only to be told it's not really a good idea. 
    It's absolutely a fine idea to be a merchant. If you have no interest in bashing / combat then you can  churn our a pretty decent amount of gold on tradeskills. At six or so gold per mineral you can make 35k per selling potash.

    The only time tradeskills aren't worth it is when the opportunity cost is higher. I.e. I can bash up 50-60k per hour. Why would I make minerals instead? 

    But even then, once you hit gold cap then you're back in profit mode. 

    It's the same with mining; I've heard plenty of people saying it's a waste of time but once you pass the initial training stage you can make GOOD profit if you pick your lodes right.

    To be honest, if I didn't enjoy other things a little more, I'd be perfectly happy (and more than able) to carve out a pretty damn good profit on a character with 0 investment.
         He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.

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