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  • I mean, you also need to watch out for your allies breathraining you


    Tecton-Today at 6:17 PM

    teehee b.u.t.t. pirates
  • KyrraKyrra Australia
    Thurisaz isn't really LoS it's just got a three room range now. As long as you're within range of the target you can use it from anywhere, including around corners etc
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

  • edited April 2017
    I was always in favor of arrows doing scaling damage if you're hit with many in a row. That discourages evading/solo sniping during melees, which is a dumb way to die, and a volley will still kill you. Let's face it: anytime people coordinate things well and hit you with something well timed, it really ought to hurt. 
  • JonathinJonathin Retired in a hole.
    @Aegoth

    They did worldwide cata once. The lols were real.
    I am retired and log into the forums maybe once every 2 months. It was a good 20 years, live your best lives, friends.
  • JonathinJonathin Retired in a hole.
    Ahmet said:
    Walls stop LoS?

    I mean, you'd think that would make sense but I'm pretty sure I've LoS'd past a wall before. Maybe it was a bug, or just one type of LoS. I dunno.
    Wall don't stop bows, by they hinder accuracy p bad. Even with my lupine, aiming, and snipe I miss once in a while.
    I am retired and log into the forums maybe once every 2 months. It was a good 20 years, live your best lives, friends.
  • Jonathin said:
    @Aegoth

    They did worldwide cata once. The lols were real.
    my first character was a cyrenian cata magi in 2002 :p
  • edited April 2017
    The continuous wall fights are more boring than the LoS itself imo, the scaling thing is interesting. Or just lower LoS damage as a whole by some percent
  • KenwayKenway San Francisco
    Is DW the only class that can extinguish firewalls?

    - Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
    "Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
  • edited April 2017
    Kenway said:
    Is DW the only class that can extinguish firewalls?
    Survival has Dousing, which lets anyone do it
  • Necromancers have Chill, which can be used on a firewall to douse it
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo Domingo
    Calira said:
    Kenway said:
    Is DW the only class that can extinguish firewalls?
    Survival has Dousing, which lets anyone do it
    The mental picture of people hauling buckets of water trough raids and such is somewhat amusing. 

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • Pff, plebs. Fluvian jars are where it's at!
  • edited April 2017
    Daeir said:
    I don't even consider projectile LoS as a danger anymore. If you have a magi or a depthswalker, it's flat out countered. Things like breathstream, grove lightning, anthius, mind crush/choke are what you worry about these days. Must feel bad to have a Lupine these days.
    I basically said the same thing some time ago. Timewell basically shuts down arrows. A number of times i bring my lupine out only to see the shot countered. It is pretty common defense these days to just pop a timewell up, especially with the amount of DW.

    Only times I use lupine these days is for small skirmishes or assassination attempts. Seems to always come about being a failure in raids
  • Daeir said:
    I don't even consider projectile LoS as a danger anymore. If you have a magi or a depthswalker, it's flat out countered. Things like breathstream, grove lightning, anthius, mind crush/choke are what you worry about these days. Must feel bad to have a Lupine these days.

    I don't know about that. Timewell might be a good counter, but once it's gone, you're back in the same boat. Not to mention if you ever have a situation where you don't have a DW. Retardation isn't exactly a good counter, since that hamstrings your own offense and defensive capabilities in the room too.




    Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
  • Farrah said:
    Caelan said:
    Farrah said:
    That's one change I wouldn't mind, though - if ice/stonewalls indiscriminately stopped all LoS rather than stopping some, making some less accurate, and not affecting some. I think it's fair to have to kill the wall if you want to attack from afar.
    Pretty sure the point there is that, in most cases, that would completely shut down LoS and force entrenchment, which kind of destroys the dynamic of some fighting.

    Not exactly. It just means you need a designated wall breaker if you want to LoS and the other side is smart enough to douse your firewalls and wall. I think that's fair, rather than LoS just reigning supreme.
    This is already the case, if you want to use bow or other LoS stopped by wall.

  • Jonathin said:
    @Aegoth

    They did worldwide cata once. The lols were real.
    That is how cata originally worked.  I remember being in Shallam when Magi came out and wondering how the hell I was being hit by people in Ashtan.  Insane!

  • Worldwide cata was pretty much the bane of my existence for a while. Could not walk outside ungraced without a 94% chance of getting cata teamed. It was terrible.

  • JonathinJonathin Retired in a hole.
    Was hilarious. Sitting up in the Warlock observatory just super young me being happy that I was included.
    I am retired and log into the forums maybe once every 2 months. It was a good 20 years, live your best lives, friends.
  • See: announce post 702

  • I definitely do not mind fun abilities, but it just needs to be careful not to tip over into toxic for balance. It is like adding too much sugar to a cup of tea, no one would want to sip from it afterwards.
  • Devran said:
    Farrah said:
    I'd be wary of that approach. I like the overall complexity things like entrenchment, totems/ret, LoS, icewall/firewall/douse, timewell, bombs, etc. provide. When I tried Aetolia, and everyone just immediately melees, every single fight, it seemed really boring to me.
    Exactly the same thing in Imperian. Things are so homogenized and 'balanced' that nothing is unique or has any flavor anymore. It's GOOD to have things that are powerful and perhaps a bit OP. Without them the world is utterly stale.

    Imperian used to have an amazing 1v1 scene. People were bad guys and good guys and reputations were important and stuff. The game is utterly dead now (like 20 people playing tops?) because in my opinion the game developers listened to a small crowd of people like Khizan and Co who advocated for group combat. Now that's all there is, and no argument about things like "Oh but Septus is around!" and stuff will change that.  Nothing happens except groups run at each other and mash their bashing alias. Combat in Imperian is a joke. The entire game is a joke. I do NOT want to see Achaea go that route.
    Imperian's 1v1 scene didn't die because of balancing around groups. Imperian's 1v1 scene died for several reasons, but there are two main ones.

    First, it has a lot of affliction classes. I mean a lot. And most of these require some pretty high end affliction tracking to be viable. This means that the vast majority of the players were never ever going to learn their class to any decent extent. Renegade, Assassin, Shaman, Diabolist, Hunter, Bard, Mage, Deathknight, Runeguard, Paladin. Summoner even, if you're not massively artifacted. If you can't aff track at the high end, you will never be more than garbage tier at 1v1 in these classes, end of story. Maybe you'll be able to overwhelm an unartifacted person with damage, but you will never kill anybody who has a modicum of defensive investment. There is very little room for the casual fighter there because of the amount of affliction tracking that is required. 

    There's only 2 real limb classes in that game. Nothing like 2h knight fractures.  There are very few classes in the game that are 1v1 viable without more work than most people are willing to put into it. And it doesn't help at all that there are multiple afflictions on bloodroot, a delay on paralysis, and an extra globally available curing method. Combat there is much less approachable.

    Second, the small population makes the game extremely susceptible to artifact bloat. Quite simply, it just hit a point where everybody who fought seriously at all was so artifacted that it was hard to get a foot in the door. Imperian had a lot of promising people start and then fade out because everybody was so heavily artifacted.

    A distant third cause is that all classes in Imperian were factional. Things like Retardation(and vibes in general) were exceptionally problematic there because they were restricted to one faction. Similar with telepathy and totems and all that stuff. It's much much harder to balance around factional abilities. Similarly, it also hinders player retention, because a player who gets bored with one faction has to drop their current class, losing lessons that were invested in it as well as the time invested in learning it.

    Most of those problems just won't show up in Achaea, no matter how you fuck with the balance.
  • KenwayKenway San Francisco
    Now presenting: The Longest Single Attack Message I've Ever Seen

    Dochitha whips a Barbarian's morningstar toward your left arm.
    Your left arm goes abruptly numb as a Barbarian's morningstar crunches home.
    Dochitha whips a Barbarian's morningstar toward your torso.
    A bolt of lightning explodes from the weapon as it makes contact, accompanied by a clap of thunder.
    With a series of hisses, small acidic hailstones pour down from above, battering your body.
    The right side of your body loses all feeling as the weapon of Dochitha discharges energy into you.
    You feel the beginnings of the aura of rebounding surrounding you shatter under the blow.
    A prickly stinging overcomes your body, fading away into numbness.

    - Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
    "Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
  • Kenway said:
    Now presenting: The Longest Single Attack Message I've Ever Seen

    Dochitha whips a Barbarian's morningstar toward your left arm.
    Your left arm goes abruptly numb as a Barbarian's morningstar crunches home.
    Dochitha whips a Barbarian's morningstar toward your torso.
    A bolt of lightning explodes from the weapon as it makes contact, accompanied by a clap of thunder.
    With a series of hisses, small acidic hailstones pour down from above, battering your body.
    The right side of your body loses all feeling as the weapon of Dochitha discharges into you.
    You feel the beginnings of the aura of rebounding surrounding you shatter under the blow.
    A prickly stinging overcomes your body, fading away into numbness.
    This seems more accurate.

  • KenwayKenway San Francisco
    That last thing was supposed to go in combat logs, but oh well.

    Report #16
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Submitted by: Anonymous  Status      : Unsubmitted
    Skill       : Weaponmastery  Ability     : Two-handed
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Problem:
    Two-handed knights have a very interesting combat style with slow balances and long cure times. 
    While the spec seems simple it is deceptively complex when played well and it can be a powerhouse in 
    the right hands (or just the artied ones but hey) The two major issues I repeatedly see with the 
    spec are, one: that it does too much damage against targets at the low-mid end where any decent 
    level of strength or artefact weapon essentially makes any 1v1 a no-contest matchup. And two: the 
    only real counterplay to a good two-hander is sticking clumsiness which doesn't so much counterplay 
    them as completely shut them down based on RNG alone. I'd like to see all 2h attacks become more 
    percentage based with somewhat lower scalings on artefact weapons as not only are they getting a 
    boost to damage, they're also getting a boost to fractures with speed increases. Additionally I'd 
    like to see a better interaction with clumsiness for 2h than stare menacingly at their target for 
    minimum 3.2s if they miss.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Solution #1:
    introduce a new battlefury action, BATTLEFURY FOCUS STRIKE in which the knight stuns the target with 
    the butt of their weapon, guaranteeing a hit with the combined attack. Give this focus precision 
    damage/limb damage but only one fracture.
    Solution #2:
    have clumsiness procs against 2h either still apply 1 fracture with no damage or no fractures with 
    damage. 3.2+ seconds of nothing is a -big- penalty for an easily stackable rng affliction.
    Solution #3:
    give more "soft" counters against 2h rather than the one "hard" counter. Preapplying to legs is 
    already very good (though underused) and weariness' damage reduction are both good examples of ways 
    to make fighting the spec more manageable without bringing it down to whether or not you can keep 
    clumsiness stuck and you're lucky.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I am down. Expect some may not be, but who knows. Discuss. I still really just feel like we need a damage nerf but I -know- that's not a popular opinion so, this.

    - Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
    "Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
  • I could see 2H getting the same lowered clumsy chance that Apostates recently got.

    Or maybe an accuracy increase when focusing speed, that could apply to clumsiness as well.

  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo Domingo
    Or maybe something -1 fracture if the hit would have failed due to clumsiness.

    If in Speed, then no fractures but full damage,  if precision then only one fracture and the same lowered damage the focus currently has.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

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