The Big Change - Combat

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Comments

  • Tesha said:
    @Kinilan delayed, but stuff like 104/90 didn't reduce damage by 104%/90%. It wasn't a 10% nerf to defense, probably closer to 5%, tops. Parts of damage always bypassed armor, and parts were reduced. @Sena would be able to shed better light on the matter. 
    10%-11% nerf in stats. Any knight that wasn't one of the dirty, dirty poors always aimed for a 100/100 at least. But I can see how what I said could be misinterpreted.
  • Oh okay, I thought you meant damage taken, I see what you mean now.

     i'm a rebel

  • AchillesAchilles Los Angeles
    100/100 unruned?  I forged like 50 sets and never got one that balanced :(
    image
  • @Daeir: I suspect that you could roll Runewarden and kill a huge portion of the game with very little effort without investing more than is required to get a few skills to Transcendent. The balance on Knight damage is by no means perfect, but it's also not an issue that's strictly divided across the non-artefacted/artefacted line.

    My experience has been that against plenty of people it doesn't really matter whether I have 12 strength or 21, they will die to pure doubleslash damage in a reasonably short amount of time. Admittedly I'm not just flailing blindly and there's at least some sense of strategy behind my venom choices (a large part of which serves to maximise the damage I'm dealing), but you could essentially distill that down into some mass envenoming aliases and then lean on doubleslash and achieve much the same results. Plenty of people just plain suck, I'm not sure that should be considered an indictment of Achaea's business model.
  • MishgulMishgul Trondheim, Norway
    I didn't die to the gem of negation trick Ernam, there is section of combat logs where you accused me of abusing a bug which turned out to be a bad gag in your own system though when you tried it.

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
  • @Jovolo‌ @Wessux‌

    I tested this for you. I'm level 104, level 2 sip, level 2 bracelets, level 1 belt, level 1 regen ring, SoA, fullplate, putrefaction, and a level 2 torso break set up. I was also on sip and moss balance for the bbt, and my SoA caught one of the break hfps. Amaru was 17 strength (after borrowing my level 2 gauntlets). I could of course have vigour'd, but I was asked to test without any active abilities. Couldn't test with enfeeble as Amaru doesn't have it, and he didn't even have trans tekura.

    5847h, 4607m, 25718e, 19470w cexkb-
    Amaru drops to the floor and sweeps his legs round at you.
    Amaru knocks your legs out from under you and sends you sprawling to the floor.
    Amaru balls up one fist and hammerfists you.
    He connects to the left leg!
    Your left leg is greatly damaged from the beating.
    Amaru balls up one fist and hammerfists you.
    He connects to the right leg!
    Your right leg is greatly damaged from the beating.
    Your shield completely absorbs the damage.
    5590h, 4607m, 25718e, 19488w cexkb-
     --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
    |     AFFLICTED W/ MANGLEDRIGHTLEG | AFFLICTED W/ MANGLEDRIGHTLEG     |
     --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
    (apply restoration to legs)(-257h, 4.4%) 
    You take out some salve and quickly rub it on your legs.
    5590h, 4607m, 25738e, 19488w cexkb-

     ------------------------------------------------------------------- 
    |     AFFLICTED W/ MANGLEDLEFTLEG | AFFLICTED W/ MANGLEDLEFTLEG     |
     ------------------------------------------------------------------- 
    You may drink another health or mana elixir or tonic. (4.423s)
    5590h, 4607m, 25738e, 19488w cexkb-
    Amaru moves in towards you in a grabbing posture.
    Amaru lifts you triumphantly into the air, then yanks you down into his raised knee with back 
    breaking force.
    2041h, 4607m, 25738e, 19512w cexkb-(sip health|outr potash|eat potash)(-3549h, 60.7%) 
    You take a drink from a stygian vial.
    The elixir heals and soothes you.
    3177h, 4607m, 25738e, 19512w cexkb-(+1136h, 19.4%) 
    You remove 1 potash, bringing the total in the Rift to 849.
    3177h, 4607m, 25738e, 19512w cexkb-
    You eat a potash crystal.
    You feel your health and mana replenished.
    3644h, 4921m, 25738e, 19512w cexkb-(+467h, 8.0%, +314m, 6.4%) 
    Your left leg feels stronger and healthier.
    You may apply another salve or balm to yourself. (3.988s) (4.038s)
    3644h, 4921m, 25758e, 19512w cexkb-(apply mending to legs)
    You take out some salve and quickly rub it on your legs.
    The bones in your left leg mend. (0.05s)
    3644h, 4921m, 25758e, 19512w cexkb-
    Amanu flies up from the ground, carried by a pair of eagle's wings that flare with power.
    3644h, 4921m, 25758e, 19512w cexkb-
    You bleed 100 health.
    3544h, 4921m, 25758e, 19512w cexkb-(-100h, 1.7%) 
    You may apply another salve or balm to yourself. (0.839s)
    3544h, 4801m, 25758e, 19476w cexkb-(apply restoration to legs)
    You take out some salve and quickly rub it on your legs.
    3544h, 4801m, 25758e, 19476w cexkb-
    Amanu leaves to the up.
    3660h, 4899m, 25758e, 19494w cexkb-(+116h, 2.0%, +98m, 2.0%) 
    Amaru moves in towards you in a grabbing posture.
    Amaru lifts you triumphantly into the air, then yanks you down into his raised knee with back 
    breaking force.
    As you feel the last remnants of strength ebb from your tormented body, you close your eyes and let 
    darkness embrace you. Suddenly, you feel your consciousness wrenched from its pitiful mortal frame 
    and your soul is free. You feel your form shifting, warping and changing as you whirl and spiral 
    outward, ever outward. A jolt of sensation awakens you, and you open your eyes tentatively to find 
    yourself trapped within a physical body once more.

  • Mishgul said:
    I didn't die to the gem of negation trick Ernam, there is section of combat logs where you accused me of abusing a bug which turned out to be a bad gag in your own system though when you tried it.
    I didn't say you died to it... and I didn't accuse you of anything.  It was just a weird log worth posting.  I do believe, however, in the log that you're referencing, you did tank an enfeeble/2 level 1 torso break BBT combo, preceded directly by a forced gem of negation.  Lets see if I can find that log!
  • @Cooper you did it wrong, you're supposed to get enfeebled first.

    Obviously, that would let you survive it by preparing you mentally for being burst down.
    image
    Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."

  • edited January 2015
    Here's a log in which I have 22str, with @Xer in apostate, leading into this with the first combo being a level 2 torso break (both this and the fact that the arm salve wasn't fake were confirmed by @Xer).

    https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/d1e10c35

    He was able to cure the level 2 torso break, knocking it down to level 1 broken torso, before the BBTs.

    With 22str, a JPK double leg break, enfeeble, 2x BBTs with level 1 torso break, he walked away with 3,000 health.  Again, I was able to get the kill with a gem of negation (which I thoroughly hate having to use).  Note that every single attack in the kill sequence is queued, and that despite significant pre-damage, he was on both sip and moss balance, due to regen and how little damage the tekura prep combos do against apostate.

    (digging through my forum history to find the other log(s)). 
  • 5923h, 3579m|97%m, 99%e, 54%w, 39 kai, x, 79.9%, cdbk|6/13|3/3|3/16|24- [sta](+212m, 5.8%)
    Xer's Baalzadeen utters a curse at him as his lips curl up into a cruel smirk.
    5923h, 3579m|97%m, 99%e, 54%w, 39 kai, x, 79.9%, cdbk|6/13|3/3|3/16|24- [sta]

    While I'm sure putrefaction and regen mitigate damage, I think this skill right here probably has more effect than anything else in terms of him tanking that.
    image
    Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."

  • edited January 2015
    Jarrod said:
    5923h, 3579m|97%m, 99%e, 54%w, 39 kai, x, 79.9%, cdbk|6/13|3/3|3/16|24- [sta](+212m, 5.8%)
    Xer's Baalzadeen utters a curse at him as his lips curl up into a cruel smirk.
    5923h, 3579m|97%m, 99%e, 54%w, 39 kai, x, 79.9%, cdbk|6/13|3/3|3/16|24- [sta]

    While I'm sure putrefaction and regen mitigate damage, I think this skill right here probably has more effect than anything else in terms of him tanking that.

    Oh absolutely - there is no doubt.  However it is pure and simple damage mitigiation, which stacks with damage reduction (damage done both before and during numb is still reduced by armor, putrefaction, etc.).  There's also nothing you can do to stop it.

    Infernals don't have this, but they have weathering and fullplate instead, and can vigour off pre-damage before the leg break as well.

    [also worth mentioning that the level 2 break wouldn't have changed anything, he walked away with far more health than the BBTs would have done with the small increase in damage between level 1 and 2 torso breaks]
  • The Xer log has nothing to do with your assertions. It was Apathy that let him survive that combo. The enfeeble before the numb was a waste. I'd wager if you saved it for when it should be used vs numb he would have had a much smaller chance of surviving even with numb. You need a log sans numb to really backup your points.
  • edited January 2015
    Jovolo said:
    The Xer log has nothing to do with your assertions. It was Apathy that let him survive that combo. The enfeeble before the numb was a waste. I'd wager if you saved it for when it should be used vs numb he would have had a much smaller chance of surviving even with numb. You need a log sans numb to really backup your points.

    I do see what you're saying, but Numb is damage mitigation, and my whole point is that a handful of classes have way too much.  Monk's numb can be annoying, but it's nowhere near the problem that Apathy is, because monks aren't stacking the damage reduction of Apathy with another 40%+ reduction from class defenses/armor.

    Considering that Apathy quite literally "reduces damage taken by 40%"(?) (which stacks, undiminished, with any other reductions), I don't see how you can say it has nothing to do with my assertions.  It is exactly what I'm asserting, it just requires the use of an (unstoppable) ability during a kill sequence, where Infernal, Runewarden, and Dragon don't (but have much higher static reduction).

    (?) unsure of exact figure, don't have it written down.  
  • edited January 2015

    I'm just going to stop, once again.  If the only goal is to prove that I'm a liar, or picking apart tiny parts of a much bigger claim, then there's no point in even making one.

    Just to be 100% clear, I was stating that damage reduction is too high for several classes, which included apostate.  I made the mistake of referencing an extreme example simply to illustrate the point, but this opened myself up to people who would rather argue with the example, or argue against my integrity, instead of arguing the actual question I asked, which was:

    Do knights, dragons, apostates, actually need the extremely high amount of damage reduction they currently have, in light of the significant upgrades they've experienced, and the downgrades that damage output has experienced?

    As I clearly stated, I'll do what I can to come up with some actual numbers/logs when I have the time and opportunity to find people to help me with it (as I don't have an infernal or a monk character, this isn't something I can do literally overnight, as you seem to be demanding).

    I will agree with you that it's an opinion, however it's an educated opinion, since I have a large amount (probably larger than all but a handful of players in the game) with dragon, infernal, monk, apostate, and runewarden combat.

    edit: @Xer - not going to argue over this any more, if you're going to argue over the validity of the log, I'll just generate new ones with people willing to vouch for their authenticity (can't believe this is really necessary...).
  • XerXer Langley
    edited January 2015
    I'm not arguing over the validity of the log, but you have absolutely no way to tell what my torso damage if you prebreak it and I leave the room (which I clearly did in the very log you showed). If you prebreak my torso and I leave the room, then all you know is that I 'might' have a broken torso, and that it might also have been cured. What sounds more reasonable? Having 3000 health after two L2 torso BBT's, or having 3000 health after two non-torso BBT's? And I believe I also noted that that if you actually got two proper torso break BBTs while numbed and a choke, I'd probably die. MAYBE live with a little bit of health. If I vigour past full before numb wears off however, I can almost certainly live through it though. Apostates in particular, have extreme amounts of damage reduction, not going to say anything against that. But your assumptions about the state of my torso is quite wrong.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    e^(iπ) + 1 = 0
  • @Cooper you also lacked the "maximum pre damage" (whatever the hell that is) and that surely would have gotten your adrenaline going so you would have healed more. 

  • @Ernam, genuine question. Are you sure you didn't just cage the Infernal and that's how he came out of the combo with more health than he went in? 

  • I don't think these are picking tiny holes in it, pretty big holes.. in fact, whole argument holes.

  • ANNOUNCE NEWS #4270
    Date: 01/28/2015 at 21:39
    From: Tecton, the Terraformer
    To : Everyone
    Subj: Classlead Changes: January 2015 - Part 1
    We've just loaded up the first of our classlead changes from the most recent season! The details of the changes are as follows:
    ...
    Weaponmastery
    -------------
    * CARVE (Two-handed) will now have the correct balance cost on failing to strike a target.


    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • edited January 2015
    Addama said:





    Chivalry
    --------
    * FITNESS now has a cooldown between uses, bringing it into line with similar curing abilities.


    Pretty much how I felt.
  • So, can anyone clarify for me how long it takes to cure fractures? I looked at a timestamp and for the fracture I looked at it took 20 seconds between applications. Is there a fracture that vastly increases the time between applies (as I thought it was only sipping)?
  • head fractures increase health balance by 1second each, this includes curing fractures
  • WessuxWessux Chattanooga
    Khorus said:
    So, can anyone clarify for me how long it takes to cure fractures? I looked at a timestamp and for the fracture I looked at it took 20 seconds between applications. Is there a fracture that vastly increases the time between applies (as I thought it was only sipping)?
    Like Amranu said, head fractures increase it by 1 second per fracture. But 20 seconds is till far too long. Maybe you hit a lag spike or something. 
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
  • Nah I was operating and fighting fine, no lag. I only had 3 head fractures as well, and it was a definite 20 seconds. I thought something weird was going on with how long it took. I'll test again, but it's pretty easy to overwhelm someone with 20 second, one heal per apply fractures.
  • 20 seconds for 3 head fractures is a bug
  • Sure you weren't sipping instead? 

  • Logs are much more helpful in figuring out if it is a bug or a mistake on your part. Can you post one?

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