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Newbie Serpent looking for a bit of help!

KoyukiKoyuki Member Posts: 127 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
Hey guys, I've recently picked up Achaea, in terms of that I've tried a shit load of different characters and classes and decided to stick on Serpent.

Long-term I plan to buy credits, but right now I just want to focus on everything I will need to be successful as a serpent. The hunting currently is a giant bore as I need to secrete/bite and I feel that even jester could be faster than this until I get to camus. So I wanted to know if it's better to trans out my Venom or Subterfuge, or if there's a certain skill I should prioritize in one of the two before going for something else. I thoroughly enjoy the aspect, ideas, and abilities that come with this class; so I have no plans of changing long term or getting discouraged from combat. I'm not sure which house I want to join, and I have no intention of having a giant debate throughout this discussion about which house is better than the other, but I do want to know anyone who would be willing to help me out in game, or send me occasional messages just to make sure that I'm not being a complete fuck up!

Like I said, I am going to buy credits long term, but I just want to know what I need to purchase with credits, invest into with lessons, or anyone that I need to watch out for, or look for as a mentor. I also take IC/OoC barriers very seriously and sort of a die hard in the RP department, so I don't actually expect Koyuki to waltz up to some Naga that OoC offered to teach me a few things. 

Thank you so much for anyone who can get back to me! <3
Alcinae
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Comments

  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,505 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'm pretty sure you can use KILL <denizen> to attack with sumac, which will save you the trouble of having to secrete/bite separately. I think Sumac is the only venom that can be secreted instantly like that, until you get transecretion.

    As for investing your lessons: all in subterfuge. Keep a few lessons to learn survival until selfishness if you like, but otherwise concentrate entirely on subterfuge. This will get you garrote, as your best hunting ability, plus all the really important combat and utility abilities. There's no real reason to learn venom or hypnosis until you are transcendent, or close to it, in subterfuge.

    After that, it depends on your focus: for combat, hypnosis is somewhat more important. You already get the most important hypnosis affliction right at the start (impatience), but you still need to learn more hypnosis to actually be able to hypnotise people without failing all the time. Venoms has some useful things too, but is more of a convenience thing for the most part, since it allows you to use venoms without buying venom vials. But that only helps once you can fully trans venoms.
    TvistorTael
  • TrevizeTrevize Member Posts: 1,517 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited March 2013
    Hunting will always be a bore, but I found I really enjoyed garrote in subterfuge. I believe camus is better than garrote until sub is transed, though. Someone else could answer better on that - I haven't been a serpent for a while. Subterfuge gives you a ton of utility, too, where venoms is mostly PVP.

    Shout at me sometime IG if you'd like. I'd be glad to help.
    Current scripts: GoldTracker 1.2, mData 1.1
    Site: https://github.com/trevize-achaea/scripts/releases
    Thread: http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/4064/trevizes-scripts
    Latest update: 9/26/2015 better character name handling in GoldTracker, separation of script and settings, addition of gold report and gold distribute aliases.
  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,505 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Garrote may be worse than camus at a low subterfuge level, but you'll want to learn as much subterfuge as possible anyways, so I'd rather not waste those lessons on venom. You can also make up for a still inferior garrote by getting a good whip. Also, biting drains a lot of endurance, garroting does not.
  • KoyukiKoyuki Member Posts: 127 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Alright, so I'll bring my focus towards subterfuge then! Great, thanks guys! I do want to really learn combat and become fluent in it, I'm just super super scared when I see people dueling or the one time I saw a raid going on. So much stuff going on, I think I'd die. :<

    As for traits and specializations, any hints on what to go for? (I'm an Atavian)
  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,505 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2013
    Most stats are completely irrelevant for serpents, so the generally best choice is to specialise in constitution, as more health always helps. For Atavian, that would mean Sentry. Trait-wise, you'll want nimble as a major trait if you want to get into combat. Then also either receptive body or robust, to increase your general tankiness. The third one is pretty much open to you. There's no further one that's really necessary. Minor traits are completely open to personal preference as well. I guess marksman can be useful, especially when you don't have snipe yet, and it can even help in some situations later.

    As for getting into combat: for a serpent, I'd recommend starting out with group combat by using a bow. Once you learned the essentials of archery in subterfuge, you can be very useful with a bow in any group, and that's much easier to learn than 1v1 melee and will ease you a bit into the whole combat atmosphere. The fact that you are in a different room when shooting also helps, because it cuts down on the spam a bit!
    TvistorTaelPraxidesUtianima
  • KoyukiKoyuki Member Posts: 127 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Sweet, thank you! <3

    I only made it around level 35-40 before I started dying to everything, so I assume I'm going to have to be waaaay past those levels before I even do anything combat related? Regardless of the fact I have no idea where to bash once I hit level 40, because Gnolls are always killed and Ophidians somehow always kill me venom related. :<
  • JonathinJonathin A hole in the groundMember Posts: 3,008 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2013
    Yeah, you're pretty much going to want to be level 75+ so that your health isn't so low that it only takes 1 hit to kill you. There are people who manage sub-75 combat (probably with lots of running and hindering), but it's not really difficult (even as a serpent) to get 75.

    It's not difficult to get to level 80+ at all either. Although, I did have a level 3 lash and a SoA, so it helped immensely.

    (Mudlet Clan): Nylian says, "Mosr's on the case. Fix incoming."

    Tutorials and scripts  The Repository

    Kyrra
  • KoyukiKoyuki Member Posts: 127 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    It took me two days to reach level 20. D:

    How the heck am I supposed to reach level 80 and above if I can't even get past those flail-gnolls or those ophidians who constantly bite me to death? *Sob* Or it's the fact there's so many rooms and I get lost and confused about where I'm trying to get to. I fail. :(
  • JonathinJonathin A hole in the groundMember Posts: 3,008 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2013
    Just be patient. Use a mapper and it helps with navigation. If you get low on health, run. If it chases, run farther. Try using a shield tattoo. Bash with a partner that can tank for you when you get low. Have a magi or sylvan follow you around and reflect you. Sip health/vitality and eat moss/potash to heal instead of just health/vitality elixir/tonic.

    Manara is pretty simple. From the entrance, you can reach the bigger gnolls if you go straight south and down as far as you can go. If you're having a hard time with ophidians, have a tree tattoo and run a lot to diagnose. 

    If you have question that you want answered immediately, ask me in game (Mosr) if you see me. I'm more than happy to give directions from my perch in Targossas.

    (Mudlet Clan): Nylian says, "Mosr's on the case. Fix incoming."

    Tutorials and scripts  The Repository

  • KoyukiKoyuki Member Posts: 127 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Ahaha! Yeah, I just panic when I see my health go low and then I completely lose all typing-rhythm on my keyboard and things go downhill from there. The only problem with my bashing is that I only know those two places to go from my old priest. My old leveling style was: Lodi->Actar->Great Rock->Manara. But once I get to level 40 and think I'm brave enough I die enough times to suicide and agree that I hate the class. Heehee.

    I guess it's the joy of not being a true alternate character. I honestly don't have a clue about anything outside of my never bashed out Lodi. >.<
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,823 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Serpent hunting is okay, but is practically holding your bashing macro down. Keep scales up, make sure you've got elixir and a good set of scalemail.

    If you don't have an auto-sipper, grab/code one already. Will significantly reduce your stress when hunting.


    :pleased::pleased:
  • TrevizeTrevize Member Posts: 1,517 @ - Epic Achaean
    I'm not sure what client you're using, but macros make life a -lot- easier. Outside of combat, I use the number pad for movement, and function keys for hunting stuff.
    Current scripts: GoldTracker 1.2, mData 1.1
    Site: https://github.com/trevize-achaea/scripts/releases
    Thread: http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/4064/trevizes-scripts
    Latest update: 9/26/2015 better character name handling in GoldTracker, separation of script and settings, addition of gold report and gold distribute aliases.
  • KoyukiKoyuki Member Posts: 127 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Um, I use the flash thing on the main site. No idea how to work the stuff on there. Lol..
  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,505 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2013
    From what level on combat becomes viable depends very much on what you want in combat. You can have fun spars/party spars/arena events with other low level people at any time before that, and participating in things like raid defence of a city also has no strict level limit, as long as you accept the fact that you'll die a bunch. (Although some cities require you to have a certain rank in a house, or a certain level, or something similar in order to participate in city defence.)

    If you stay very defensive in group combat and keep to evading out of the room and sniping from there, you can get by quite well without being very tanky. As a low level serpent, you won't be on top of your opponents' priority lists, so you may be able to survive well enough to get a few snipe kills in. I know several serpents who aren't high level and aren't particularly experienced "combatants" who still get plenty of kills in group combat.

    1v1 is a whole different story though. Any experienced opponent won't just die to a single sniping serpent, so you will have to work with doublestabs and enter the whole world of affliction-based fighting, which can be a bit tough to get the hang of initially. But work yourself slowly up. Experiment, see how people react, try to think of ways of combining afflictions into a situation that will lock somebody completely, and look up serpent players in game and ask them for advice. I'm really not a great combat teacher myself, but I'm always willing to give some basic hints and suggestions (although only up to a certain limit to people not in Iocun's house).

    (By the way though: not all the best teachers for a class are members of that class themselves. Any experienced combatant would probably be able to give a few good tips for almost any class.)
    KoyukiWilhelminaPraxidesUtianima
  • ArditiArditi Member Posts: 841 @ - Epic Achaean
    Join a city and house, defend against raiders, use your bow to level up the fast way.

    But seriously, Subterfuge is amazing for hunting and questing, since wormholes abd phase cut your travel time and time exposed to things that want to put pointy bits in your squishy bits.

    Atavian Sentry with Robust is surprisingly tanky, and a good whip hits like a truck. Just learn your limits with hunting: Better to kill twenty easy things for 1% each than to die trying to kill two difficult things for 10% each.

    Utianima
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,823 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    There's also an unfortunate reality with Serpent combat that you almost require a very expensive artefact dirk in order to be able to be competitive 1v1. Tvistor and I have tried to work around it, and you sort of can do it, but you're always going to be a step behind someone with it, and if you have high latency, it'll be even worse. This might be addressed in the upcoming classleads, but don't bank on it.

    You can have a lot of fun with the Serpent class without even bothering with bashing or combat. Theft is a rush, but requires you to have Action in Hypnosis for it to be feasible, but it'll quickly get you outlawed and infamous which will put you in the "fair game" category for a lot of people to kill you. Subterfuge is fun as well, sneaking around and doing espionage and all that stuff. I highly advise you join a competent Serpent house to get the most out of the class though - if you like the whole Evil thing, the Naga are a fantastic place to start. Jurixe (the House Leader) has a phenomenal grasp on roleplaying and you'll have a blast there if you like the whole environment.
    :pleased::pleased:
  • HawekHawek Member Posts: 54 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited March 2013
    Daeir said:
    There's also an unfortunate reality with Serpent combat that you almost require a very expensive artefact dirk in order to be able to be competitive 1v1. 


    Yep it does, but like you said it's still able too but the chances of actually pulling it off against someone with decent curing is slim to nil... Even with a level two dirk it still can be a pain sometimes.

    And there's several houses that accept Serpents, besides just the Naga.
    ---------------------------------
    Hashan - Serpent Lords
    Ashtan - Shadow Snakes
    Cyrene - Mojushai 
    Mhaldor - Naga
    House with Serpents who aren't very serpent like at all... - CIJ
    Shallam before it sank - Dawnstriders (Can't Join)
    Eleusis - Sentinels
    ---------------------------------

    So really it all depends on which route you like to take, really all have their ups and downs.


    Edit: Forgot about the Sentinels.

    image
  • TvistorTvistor Member Posts: 2,883 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I am also accepting serpentine meatshields within my legion.
    The quickest way to a woman's heart is through her ribcage.
    AntidasHanley
  • LilleyLilley Member Posts: 27 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited March 2013
    I say you join the Serpentlords, because they are like the OG's of serpents. Muahahaha

    As for your original question (I didn't bother reading all of the other answers) you should follow through with what your House recommends. My personal opinion is to trans subterfuge first, because there are so many useful abilities in there. Including garrote, which could help you with hunting. Then trans venom and use camus, if you don't mind a little... er, a big... endurance loss. It takes a bit more biting with camus to kill something than it does to garrote them to death, but camus is still slightly faster.

    as for dirks and bows.... taken from HELP ARTEFACTS OFFENSIVE:
    Bows:  These shoot more quickly, do more damage, and hit more easily than a
           darkbow. The damage and to-hit percentages aren't possible to give
           because they are only one of many factors - suffice it to say that
           the more expensive bows are more accurate and do more damage.

      Note: The base price of bows is based on having the DARKBOWS ability.
            Should you not have this class ability, you can purchase the
            "shooting" option via the ARTEFACT command, which grants the
            owner the ability to use the SHOOT command:
               SHOOT <adventurer> <direction> -or-
               SHOOT <adventurer> WITH METEOR.

       Ranger's Bow:  250 credits ( 7% faster) - Shooting: +100 credits
       Velocity Bow:  550 credits (14% faster) - Shooting: +250 credits
       Lupine Bow:   1000 credits (22% faster) - Shooting: +500 credits

    Dirks: (give increased dstab speed, which is not dependent on weapon stats.)
       Assassin's Dirk:    300 credits (8% faster)
       Buckawn's Spine:    700 credits (15% faster)
       Thoth's Fang:      1500 credits (23% faster)


    Hope that helped. :)
  • ArditiArditi Member Posts: 841 @ - Epic Achaean
    Congratulations on joining the Naga. Now I can give you the same advice without the friendly veneer I have to maintain on the forums.

    RajanAlcinaeUtianima
  • KoyukiKoyuki Member Posts: 127 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited March 2013
    <3 U Lilley. Thank you so much!

    As for Arditi, please do, I love the RP! ^-^

    EDIT: What does Phase do?
    Post edited by Koyuki on
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,588 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Hawek said:
    Daeir said:

    And there's several houses that accept Serpents, besides just the Naga.
    ---------------------------------
    Hashan - Serpent Lords
    Ashtan - Shadow Snakes
    Cyrene - Mojushai 
    Mhaldor - Naga
    House with Serpents who aren't very serpent like at all... - CIJ
    Shallam before it sank - Dawnstriders (Can't Join)
    Eleusis - Sentinels
    ---------------------------------

    The CIJ is a mischief house. And since serpents have more mechanics for mischief than any other class in the game, yeah I think they fit.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,588 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Vayne said:
    If you accept any other class besides serpent, you are not a real serpent guild. :P
    ftfy
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
    SylvanceVayne
  • VayneVayne Rhode IslandMember Posts: 1,897 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    No, I think I had it right.
    image
    KyrraSylvance
  • KoyukiKoyuki Member Posts: 127 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Geez guys, thanks for telling me what Phase does. *rolls eyes*
  • GaraoGarao Member Posts: 460 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I guess asking in-game is too difficult for some reason, so: phase is a separate dimension effectively - while in phase others can't attack you or see you at all (unless they are also in phase, in which case they can see you on WHO B -- a gem of transmutation artefact counterracts this as it hides you from WHO lists), you cannot be attacked by denizens or city guards etcetera. You can be pulled out of phase by a thrown eye sigil in your room available to anyone.

    Naga was best choice, hope you enjoy it.
    One day, ACC, one day...
  • EldEld Member Posts: 3,946 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Garao said:
    I guess asking in-game is too difficult for some reason, so: phase is a separate dimension effectively - while in phase others can't attack you or see you at all (unless they are also in phase, in which case they can see you on WHO B -- a gem of transmutation artefact counterracts this as it hides you from WHO lists), you cannot be attacked by denizens or city guards etcetera. You can be pulled out of phase by a thrown eye sigil in your room available to anyone.

    Naga was best choice, hope you enjoy it.
    Sounded like she found out in game and was surprised/disappointed/something that no one had brought it up earlier in the thread. Or something.
  • KoyukiKoyuki Member Posts: 127 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    Garao said:
    I guess asking in-game is too difficult for some reason, so: phase is a separate dimension effectively - while in phase others can't attack you or see you at all (unless they are also in phase, in which case they can see you on WHO B -- a gem of transmutation artefact counterracts this as it hides you from WHO lists), you cannot be attacked by denizens or city guards etcetera. You can be pulled out of phase by a thrown eye sigil in your room available to anyone.

    Naga was best choice, hope you enjoy it.
    Ouch, that one stung. D:
    Or it could be that the times that I'm on, the Naga aren't even around or they're offplane. :S
    SylvanceAlcinae
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