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Mesmerise: the most useless of all trans skills?

DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,823 @@ - Legendary Achaean
Syntax: MESMERISE <adventurer>

Mesmerise is an alternative to HYPNOTISE. Mesmerise takes longer and drains more mana. It also requires complete focus on the task at hand, meaning
that any activity at all during the MESMERISE attempt will cause it to fail. The benefit of a successful MESMERISE is that it will not be noticed.

Normal hypnosis requires about 3 seconds to start. Mesmerise takes about 6, costs three times the mana and if you do -anything- whilst mesmerizing (curing, lighting pipes, breathing, anything) it instantly cancels but still leaves you off balance for the full duration. This pretty much limits it to being used exclusively when you have the pleasure of having the drop on someone long enough to get this off without them noticing you (which is extremely rare in most circumstances). Normal hypnosis isn't affected by action whatsoever, though has a reasonably high chance of failing against high level/vigilant opponents. The only use this really has therein is when normal hypnosis simply can't ensnare a target, and even then, the caveats with this ability are sufficient enough for you to consider alternatives first.

Thoughts on this? I'm probably trying to use it wrong, but it just feels almost completely worthless to me.
:pleased::pleased:
Domanic
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Comments

  • GaraoGarao Member Posts: 460 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    No... it's not useless and definitely not the most useless trans skill.
    One day, ACC, one day...
    AlcinaeXithTael
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,020 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The uselessest.
    image
  • JonathinJonathin A hole in the groundMember Posts: 3,008 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    When I was a serpent, I only ever used it for theft against people that were trans vision. Theft has since been nerfed. Using it in combat when you're curing is pretty much a no-go. Unless another serpent has a compelling argument to counter my experiences with it, I'm going to agree with @Daeir that it's pretty much useless. Mainly because, in my experience, the uses for it are so limited- more so now because of the theft nerf.

    (Mudlet Clan): Nylian says, "Mosr's on the case. Fix incoming."

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  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,823 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Garao said:
    No... it's not useless and definitely not the most useless trans skill.
    Care to share why?
    :pleased::pleased:
  • GaraoGarao Member Posts: 460 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Honestly no. I'm not a serpent and it being changed is not a big deal to me, if you want to think it's useless. 
    One day, ACC, one day...
    DaeirSylvance
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,020 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Should be a Hypno relapse ability. Pick one aff and insta re-afflict.

    That can't possibly be too powerful.
    image
    Cooper
  • MishgulMishgul Sør-TrøndelagMember Posts: 5,302 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Or an ability that causes you to cut yourself causing massice bleeding called instantemo. Or instemo.

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
    AradorSylvance
  • TanaarTanaar Member Posts: 284 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Also fairly craptastic trans abilities:

    Telepathy - Mindprints

    Enchantment - Necklace of Purity
    CooperShunsuiSylvanceDomanic
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,020 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You serious? Those are great!

    Hmm.. what do I have.

    Broken Star
    Phoenix
    Deathstrike

    NO TRADE!! NO TRADEEEE!!
    image
    Sylvance
  • LukanLukan Member Posts: 170 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Mesmerise was good only really good for theft, but it still has a few situational uses, albeit mostly grief-y ones.
    BlujixapugAntidas
  • CahinCahin Member Posts: 1,246 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tanaar said:
    Also fairly craptastic trans abilities:

    Telepathy - Mindprints

    Enchantment - Necklace of Purity
    Necklace of Purity is amazing and as an affliction class I hate it.
    Mindprints is also very useful.

    RajanAntidasDomanic
  • SilasSilas Member Posts: 2,529 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Bloodsworn trumps all.

    CahinAchillesTaelBoosteya
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 3,789 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Mindprints and necklace of purity are both amazing abilities.

    Mesmerize is still useful. Underwhelming for a trans ability, but still useful.

    Rajan
  • GaraoGarao Member Posts: 460 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I would agree that it's underwhelming, but I don't think adjusting mesmerise is really the direction you want to be going in if you're looking for serpents buffs, @Daeir
    One day, ACC, one day...
    DaeirSherazad
  • TanaarTanaar Member Posts: 284 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I can't speak personally for Necklace of Purity, but the utility of Mindprints is extremely situational. Given that you can only have five at any given time, you basically get to choose three or four people in the -whole- game to maintain prints on, with one or two slots open for on-the-fly printing.

    If the number were tripled or even just doubled, that would make them far more commonly used.

    That said, when they work, they work. -In comparison- to most other trans abilities, about half of which are instakills and most of the rest are necessary for the skill to be useful in combat i.e. Transecrete or Supercharge, Mindprints and Mesmerise make a noticeably poor showing
    Domanic
  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,505 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2013
    I agree that mindprints isn't the most powerful of trans abilities, but it's still quite useful in combat. Maintaining prints of all your potential victims isn't feasible, yes, but if you're in an extended fight with one or several people it'll be well worth it getting a mind print early on, to improve your re-locking for the rest of the same fight. It's been ages since I was a monk and had it, so I don't really know how much it helps exactly, but I imagine it can make things quite a bit easier in a long 1v1 duel, for instance.

    Mesmerise is very underwhelming, in any case. I don't think I've actually ever used it in any "serious" situation, but then, I don't exactly play the super-secretive-silent-thieving-backstabbing serpent and it certainly still has applications for those. If you want to jump someone and have sufficient time to prepare, mesmerize is a decent choice. Certainly not the reason to trans hypnosis though. Only reason to trans hypnosis is that its skill rank improves your normal hypnotising and that ACTION is very high up. Neither hypochondria nor mesmerise add much beyond that. Would be more useful if it worked just like hypnotise, just took longer to go through, but was guaranteed to go through.
  • AchillesAchilles Los AngelesMember Posts: 2,246 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2013
    I'd actually say forging is the most useless trans skill of all and not because fullplate is bad (its great in fact) but because you can trans forging once, class change to anything and go back to a knight class and wear that same fullplate 400 years later.  Oh right you also have to spend an additional 400 credits to buy a hammer to even forge something worthwhile of keeping.

    Necklaces of purity have a decay time, so the Magi has to trans it each time they switch back.  Not to mention passive curing is great in itself versus affliction classes.

    Bloodsworn (Devotion) is also pretty useless, if we are measuring how useful/useless a trans ability is by the number of times you actually use it few skills have fewer usage.  You can have ONE person of a class who has to be on the same playing schedule as you and its really only useful for bashing.  It has some cool RP potential (see roleplay logs, bloodsworn gods) but the ability as is needs some work if people are actually going to bother to use it.

    Empower (Runelore) - is a nice org feature but seems like a weak "trans" ability.  People will trans it anyways since you can't uproot totems unless you have a equal or higher runelore as the implanter but still, boring.



    image
    Daeir
  • TvistorTvistor Member Posts: 2,883 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Mesmerise is so astoundingly useless now that theft is gone. The only situation I'd ever find it of any use at all is a non-afk enemy is standing on the same spot (without guards) for ages. And you know, if they aren't afk they're likely just going to run the moment you attack since we don't really have much hindering outside of web tattoo/icewall.

    Like, I seriously haven't had to use it in actual months. You can't even get someone bashing with it because you can't move with them.
    The quickest way to a woman's heart is through her ribcage.
    Antidas
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,823 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2013
    Garao said:
    I would agree that it's underwhelming, but I don't think adjusting mesmerise is really the direction you want to be going in if you're looking for serpents buffs, @Daeir
    I just want to talk about the skill, not necessarily introduce a massive slew of serpent buffs :( I don't understand why you'd even post here if you weren't actually interested in talking about it.

    Also:

    Necklace of purity is an amazing trans skill. Relatively cheap passive curing that can't be stripped with the use of a simple trigger? Yes please!

    :pleased::pleased:
    Sherazad
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 3,789 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Monks don't use mindprint like they should. It is an extremely useful and powerful ability.

    Jhui
  • GaraoGarao Member Posts: 460 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited March 2013
    I posted here to say it's not necessary. Yes, I disagree with you, it happens. I think discussing changing mesmerise (a feature I do not see as in any real need of change) is a waste of effort that is better placed in discussing the weak parts of serpent that actually need to be addressed, that's all.
    One day, ACC, one day...
    DaeirSherazad
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,823 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2013
    It's not necessary, but I won't say why.

    Right.

    Just hit the disagree/wtf button in the future and save yourself the effort - it brings about as much to a conversation.

    EDIT: Why edit your post after the fact to say as much? I completely agree with you there. I'm not asking for immediate buffs to mesmerise or anything like that, I'm simply trying to trawl the seas for good ideas and constructive input on things from people who know what they're doing - because I don't!

    EDIT2: I stand corrected, mesmerise is a whopping 10s+ eq time with a component that appears to vary depending on vigilance/target level.
    :pleased::pleased:
  • AntidasAntidas Member Posts: 1,181 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I began to type exactly why I disagreed with @Daeir's original post about mesmerise being useless, and was going to quote all the times I used it against my helpless victim who was about to lose all the items in their inventory. And then I remembered theft is gone :(

    In all seriousness, after having given the subject a more than a seconds thought, I have to agree. The only time anyone ever used mesmerise was for theft, and now that theft is gone, it has absolutely no point. Sure, you can use it the very first hypno if its a gank, but you can't use it after that first time in the same fight. So sure, to the few people saying that it still has some utility, I suppose you are correct. In the same way that people who say ketchup is a vegetable are correct :-bd

    Daeir
  • GaraoGarao Member Posts: 460 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited March 2013
    The most interesting and balanced thing I can think of off the top of my head would be to change mesmerise to operate like-so:

    • No longer a channeled ability.
    • 10 seconds from initiation to successful mesmerise. 
    • Allow every affliction suggested under mesmerise to be assigned a specific, non-random seal time that must be 2 seconds apart from each other. 
    • Still does not proc vision blocking.
    • Has a cooldown, and cannot be used again for eighteen to twenty seconds (around two rebounding cycles) after snapping and thus executing the mesmerised hypnosis, or eighteen seconds after the last affliction to proc from a mesmerised suggestion. 'Daeir is currently too perceptive to your attempts to mesmerise him.' 
    It's pretty late so modifications entirely welcome, not exactly an idea that's been thought on a whole lot. Fire away
    One day, ACC, one day...
  • TvistorTvistor Member Posts: 2,883 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Not 10s EQ. It looks to be about a 13s channel, but you don't actually lose EQ during it.

    If nothing else,  mesmerize being faster would be nice.
    The quickest way to a woman's heart is through her ribcage.
  • AepasAepas Member Posts: 1,619 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2013
    Daeir said:

    Normal hypnosis requires about 3 seconds to start. Mesmerise takes about 6, and words.
    There may be some validity to some of the things in this thread. However I decided not to say anything as it does not seem like you actually tested anything based on your above statement.

    Anyways, you also get hypochondria at the same time if I remember correctly, so the obvious solution is delete mesmerize and just have hypochondria be your trans skill, and thus, no more complaints.

    Edit: atop that, hypnosis is fine as it is and doesn't really need much changing. The last big change was allowing you to keep trance even when your opponent left the room. No reason to really change anything or add new skills to it.
    Replies the scorpion: "It's my nature..."
    DaeirSherazad
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,823 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Or alternatively, fix mesmerise a la Garao's suggestions and have a usable, interesting alternative to standard hypnosis that makes sense given the nature of mesmerise as a transcendent skill.

    Why delete something that can be fixed?
    :pleased::pleased:
  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Evade into the room with Xer, Mesmerise suggest xer impatience seal Xer 1

    Come back 30 minutes later backstab out of phase with Delphinium hit him with Delphium twice Curare/Asthma Slike/Gecko Snap Execute Xer

    ^ I did that btw.

    It's extremely useful for when you don't want people to know your hypnotizing them.

    Mesmerise Daeir
    Suggest Daeir action Kick Guard
    Suggest Daeir action south
    seal Daeir 1
    Snap Daeir.

    SherazadYue
  • MishgulMishgul Sør-TrøndelagMember Posts: 5,302 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    combat related things are for classleads.

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
    Sherazad
  • TrevizeTrevize Member Posts: 1,517 @ - Epic Achaean
    Suicidemice. A trans skill that you can't use if you're not a member of a certain House. (unless that's been changed?)
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