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Occultist raid dominance.

AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 1,893 @@ - Legendary Achaean
Occultist raid utility is just far too high. I swear it is like in every raid i've been in I hear the words "Do they have an occie?". Why should one class inspire so much fear and have so much leverage over the out-come of a fight? Before the changes and events, this was not as much an issue, but now with the class being stripped from all but two organizations, it has become nothing but a pain. No other class has this much to its advantage. Let's consider the utility that comes with the class:

Star tarot: Ability to throw meteors at anyone in the area, destroying shields and causing damage. A Destroyed shield gives an advantage to their doppleganger to  throw tarot/use warp.

Astralform: Instantly gives the Occultist invulnerability and freedom of movement. Willpower drain is somewhat managable (unlike Blackwind which is 2k willpower per drain). Can be used multiple times to escape bad situations and reposition self in a raid to continue with assault. Has only 2 known counters, Druid Flash and Priest Cleansing, both of which are/have become org specific abilities.

Chaosrays: Strikes all in the room with 1 of 7 effects (one being damage), tends to be useful rather than detriment. Utilized by occultists when in a bad situation to cause group damage.

Transmogrify: When an occultist has finally been pinned down and slain, they will not in fact die but rise up with full health and mana. This process is usually instantly followed up by Astral-form (or a Duanathara) for a quick escape, having thwarted a death.

Doppleganger warp: Ability to send Doppleganger to anyone in the area and warp them. Warp damage is equivalent to your own damage via intelligence stat. If it is slain, they need not fret, they still have the ability to summon several more via their pact.

Dopple + Hangedman: Ability to send Doppleganger to anyone in the area and ensnare them, stopping any running.

Dopple + Aeon: Ability to send Doppleganger to anyone in the area and curse them with Aeon.  If there are 2 occultists in the group then it can be synchronized for both to toss their aeon tarot at the right time to cancel speed buff and give the aeon curse. Death is usually assured after this point.

Chaos Storm: Can be sent to anyone in the area to cause damage and afflict.

Xenophage: Can be utilized to instantly teleport the occultist from their location to the chaos plane, must have full health and mana. Im not really sure of the purpose of this ability but meh.

Golgotha Pit: A finally, the coup de grace. The monarch ability that brings tears to so many. The scary story no child wants to hear before bed. This ability is pretty much a "delete all" button. If you want to remove enemies in a location or a fight is going bad or you want to remove defenders, just Pit. They will be transported to Golgotha's pit and away from the location, those not being strong enough dying to the creatures there.


And here we are. A class that literally got all the juicy and flavored abilities while the others stare in starvation. I think the class's raid mechanic dominance needs to be toned down exceptionally, it is just giving too much of an unfair advantage. I know there has been talk of a ranged combat overhaul but I am not sure this can wait for that whole edition to come. Also to those that will mention "Just use an orb sigil", please remember that that really doesnt help the situation much as they can just summon another minion and you would be throwing yourself off-balance, thus a sitting duck for other assaults.
GrandueSohl
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Comments

  • DunnDunn The great Buffalo tundraMember Posts: 5,190 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    That's what happens when you bring Z into a city one day and Taug the next.


    TreyGrandueSherazadKyrra
  • AepasAepas Member Posts: 1,619 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yeah, occultist a pretty cool guy and pretty good at things
    Replies the scorpion: "It's my nature..."
  • TriakTriak Member Posts: 594 @ - Epic Achaean
    This might be worse than helmet of thoughts.
    Tyrean
  • BlujixapugBlujixapug Member Posts: 1,787 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Agree, occultists should lose ~80% of their raid utility and instead become awesome at bashing, questing, and riddles.
    image
    SimolnSohlSherazad
  • DunnDunn The great Buffalo tundraMember Posts: 5,190 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Have you ever tried to bash as a non artied Occultist?

    Ask Amunet how that works out more often than not.


    OrklanishkalJosoul
  • ZeonZeon Member Posts: 757 @ - Epic Achaean
    lol this thread.

    I like how you listed Xenophage over hermit and pathfinder. Does it really matter if occultists are amazing at raid/group combat? They have very poor bashing and 1v1 to compensate. Besides they're fun, why would you want to change things that are fun? If anything you should be promoting additions to other classes to make them more enjoyable/powerful if you feel that occultists are so privileged.

    Also go indoors and shield, makes you immune to occultists. Have someone to gust? Even more so.
    And orb sigils are incredibly useful when defending against occultists, their dps is cut severely by needing to summon a doppleganger after every warp.

                   Party right, party hard,

                                            Sing and dance, perfect bard.

                                                                     Prefarar loop, accentato whore,

                                                                                             Buy a new rapier, get nerfed some more.

    CorbeauxAntidasShunsuiSherazad
  • DunnDunn The great Buffalo tundraMember Posts: 5,190 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You forgot truename. How dare you.


    Shunsui
  • TaggTagg Member Posts: 387 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    godDAMN, if there's one person that needs to stop making topics...

    IT'S NOT ME IT'S YOU
    EldMannimarSherazad
  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,505 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2013
    Hangedman is the only occultist ability I hate.

    Perhaps gremlin too.

    I guess I'm a freedom-loving man who doesn't like to be tripped and held.

    (I hate bloodleech a bit too though. Not because of what it does, but because of how much it spams me. All that ent spam is making it so much harder to see their curing, which seriously hampers my offence. Guess it's my own fault for not gagging more stuff though.)
  • GrandueGrandue Member Posts: 382 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    lol @chaosrays/xenophage/doppy warp/star tarot


  • ChordChord Member Posts: 136 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Occultists are overpowered, they have @Hirst who has up to 18 pit pacts at any one point.

    EIGHTEEN.
  • EldEld Member Posts: 3,946 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Chord said:
    Occultists are overpowered, they have @Hirst who has over nine thousand pit pacts at any one point.

    OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAND.

    ChordTvistorSimolnSynest
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,714 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Asmodron said:
    Chaosrays: Strikes all in the room with 1 of 7 effects (one being damage)
    It's actually 1-3 of 7 effects, three being damage (four if you want to count the healing ray as negative damage).
  • GrandueGrandue Member Posts: 382 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Sena said:
    Asmodron said:
    Chaosrays: Strikes all in the room with 1 of 7 effects (one being damage)
    It's actually 1-3 of 7 effects, three being damage (four if you want to count the healing ray as negative damage).
    The lol about this post is that it strikes ALL in the room
  • SidoniaSidonia Member Posts: 364 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Asmodron said:

    Dopple + Aeon: Ability to send Doppleganger to anyone in the area and curse them with Aeon.  If there are 2 occultists in the group then it can be synchronized for both to toss their aeon tarot at the right time to cancel speed buff and give the aeon curse. Death is usually assured after this point.
    Did lol at bolded.

    Aside from that I do think Occultist is disproportionately powerful in raids, but having played the class, if it didn't have that, there'd be almost no appeal.
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 1,893 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    My my,  I come back to see trash posting from players in the Achaean forums? What a shocker..

    @Grandue Do you honestly have nothing better to do in life than attempt to find posts to mock in your attempt to feel important?


    As much as the 'useful' and 'helpful' posts above have assisted with the discussion, the facts are there why occultists are overly superior in any raid/war situation, and with just Ashtan and Hashan (the second not as much an issue) that now have access to the class, it provides an unfair advantage unless the other org associated classes have at least something to compare. Yes having lol-dopplespam from several occultists as the only form of raid mechanic being utilized makes for boring and unbalanced feel in the War department. I honestly would have no problem with just Doppleganger having some form of timer nerf, currently tossing an orb sigil just leaves you wide open for the 2 other dopplegangers to go to town on you.

    Anywho I dont expect actual serious discussion and answers to come. Stay classy Achaean Forums.
  • GrandueGrandue Member Posts: 382 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Asmodron said:

    @Grandue Do you honestly have nothing better to do in life than attempt to find posts to mock in your attempt to feel important?
    Don't give yourself too much credit there, buddy, mocking your posts doesn't make anyone feel any more important, it just provides moderate lulz. Keep calm and carry on. I get my feelings of importance when I'm pitting 20 people at once, doppy warping the shit out of defenseless and underpowered classes, and Xenophaging out after solo-killing whole defense groups.
    TanaarOrklanishkalAktillumSherazad
  • SilasSilas Member Posts: 2,529 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Go away, Asmodron. :(

    TriakTreyTaelKyrra
  • ZeonZeon Member Posts: 757 @ - Epic Achaean
    Grandue said:
    Asmodron said:

    @Grandue Do you honestly have nothing better to do in life than attempt to find posts to mock in your attempt to feel important?
    Don't give yourself too much credit there, buddy, mocking your posts doesn't make anyone feel any more important, it just provides moderate lulz. Keep calm and carry on. I get my feelings of importance when I'm pitting 20 people at once, doppy warping the shit out of defenseless and underpowered classes, and Xenophaging out after solo-killing whole defense groups.
    logs or it didn't happen

                   Party right, party hard,

                                            Sing and dance, perfect bard.

                                                                     Prefarar loop, accentato whore,

                                                                                             Buy a new rapier, get nerfed some more.

  • AktillumAktillum PhilippinesMember Posts: 1,358 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2013
    Occies aren't OP they are just more flavorful because Tanris went back in time and paid off a young Matt Mihaly to grief present-day *shallam.

    Every Occie raid utility has a counter anyways. You can even escape Golgotha. One time I flew like, exactly as someone opened a pit of Golgotha, and I swear I got a message that was like "The hands of creatures from the pit of Golgotha grab at your ankles as you narrow escape" or something.

    True story.
    Post edited by Aktillum on

  • HalosHalos Member Posts: 1,384 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    My my my. Look who is hungering after those cool devotionists with their anti-occie powers now hmmm.

    Man you guys just can't cut a break


  • LyrLyr Member Posts: 419 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited January 2013
    It makes sense that the two factions without a get-out-of-jail-free-card (not entirely, of course, but bear with me) would NOT get a way to undo that as well. A necromancer with a reveal-astralform ability? Harumph.

    I'll agree to that when we get celestialform and greenwind.
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Requesting an ability to spontaneously explode into paper to disappear, Hellsing's Father Anderson style. It could be a Shallamese ability and be holy paper, or a Cyrenese ability and we could have a class of Read or Die style papermasters, I don't care, I just want it. D:
    NemutaurNellaundraSynbiosShirszae
  • AktillumAktillum PhilippinesMember Posts: 1,358 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2013
    2 monks + 3 Occies in Annwyn. No escaping since offplane + can't book it for Annwyn exit with doppie-hangedman. Might as well take hands off keyboard.

    You reel as your mind is viciously battered by a mental assault from Jarrel.
    6597h, 4515m, 29400e, 20400w excdbkqw
    Aldair, Fitz, Lianca, Cobain.
    Plus another 182 whose presence you cannot fully sense.
    6597h, 4515m, 29400e, 20400w excdbke
    Hirst's aura of weapons rebounding disappears.
    Hirst reaches out and clenches a fist before you. You scream and double over in agony as your skin bubbles 
    with gangrenous growths.
    5501h, 4515m, 29400e, 20400w excdbk(-1096 Health) 
    You are no longer stunned.
    5501h, 4515m, 29400e, 20400w excdbk(focus|sip health)
    You flip the bird.
    5501h, 4515m, 29400e, 20400w excdbk
    You gasp and clutch at your throat as an unseen force crushes the breath of life out of you.
    (svo): Eep... holding our breath ('br' to turn off).
    As the force subsides, you struggle to shake the smirking visage of Nemutaur from your mind.
    3586h, 4515m, 29400e, 20400w excdbk(outr irid|eat irid)(-1915 Health) 
    [*** FOCUSED! FOCUSED! ***]
    [Cured]: Stupidity 
    3586h, 4265m, 29400e, 20325w excdbk(outr goldenseal|eat goldenseal)(-250 Mana) 
    You take a drink from an oaken vial.
    The elixir heals and soothes you.
    4970h, 4265m, 29400e, 20325w excdbk(+1384 Health) 
    [OUTR]: 1 Irid moss
    4970h, 4265m, 29400e, 20325w excdbk
    [Eating Herb]: Moss!
    [Healed]: Moss Healing!
    5629h, 4515m, 29400e, 20325w excdbk(+659 Health, +250 Mana) 
    Fitz Devi arrives from the ether.
    5629h, 4515m, 29400e, 20325w excdbk
    Fitz's aura of weapons rebounding disappears.
    Fitz reaches out and clenches a fist before you. You scream and double over in agony as your skin bubbles 
    with gangrenous growths.
    4704h, 4515m, 29400e, 20325w excdbk(-925 Health) 
    [OUTR]: 1 Goldenseal root
    4704h, 4515m, 29400e, 20325w excdbk
    [Eating Herb]: Goldenseal!
    [Cured]: Epilepsy!
    4704h, 4515m, 29400e, 20325w excdbk
    Lianca rubs her fingers briskly on a Tarot card.
    4704h, 4515m, 29400e, 20325w excdbk
    [Lianca] -> Afflicted you: Hangman
    4704h, 4515m, 29400e, 20325w excdbk(writhe)
    You gasp and clutch at your throat as an unseen force crushes the breath of life out of you.
    As the force subsides, you struggle to shake the smirking visage of Jarrel from your mind.
    Fortunately, from holding your breath you find that you are unhurt.
    4704h, 4515m, 29400e, 20325w excdbkh
    You begin to struggle free of your entanglement.
    4704h, 4515m, 29400e, 20325w ecdbkts
    (svo): Will keep shield up.
    <-----------------ASSASSINATE----------------->
    4704h, 4515m, 29400e, 20337w excdbk
    [Focus]: Focus Balance!
    4704h, 4515m, 29400e, 20337w excdbk(focus)
    [Herbs]: Plant Balance!
    4704h, 4515m, 29400e, 20337w excdbk
    You gasp and clutch at your throat as an unseen force crushes the breath of life out of you.
    As the force subsides, you struggle to shake the smirking visage of Nemutaur from your mind.
    Fortunately, from holding your breath you find that you are unhurt.
    4704h, 4515m, 29400e, 20337w excdbkh
    You have writhed free of your entanglement by ropes.
    4704h, 4515m, 29400e, 20337w excdbkh(touch shield)
    [*** FOCUSED! FOCUSED! ***]
    [Cured]: Dizziness 
    4704h, 4265m, 29400e, 20262w excdbk(-250 Mana) 
    You touch the tattoo and a nearly invisible magical shield forms around you.
    4704h, 4265m, 29400e, 20262w xcdbk
    Hirst's attack rebounds off your magical shield.
    4704h, 4265m, 29400e, 20262w xcdbkl
    A crystalline passageway.
    Swaying leaves dance upon the edge of vision through the sheer walls here, beckoning one to almost become 
    lost in the world outside. A gust of wind seems to almost seep in, carrying the scent of blossoms through 
    the air. The temperature of this hall is tepid, neither hot nor cold but a perfect blend of both. The many 
    servants and guests of Sidhe Court do not dawdle to enjoy the natural beauty, instead gossiping amongst 
    themselves as they flit down the hallway towards their destination. However, there is ample opportunity to 
    stop and rest in the form of simple padded benches that face the beautiful courtyard and gardens of this 
    magical plane.  Fitz Devi is here.
    You see exits leading east and west.
    4704h, 4265m, 29400e, 20262w xcdbk
    You gasp and clutch at your throat as an unseen force crushes the breath of life out of you.
    As the force subsides, you struggle to shake the smirking visage of Jarrel from your mind.
    2600h, 4265m, 29400e, 20262w xcdbk(-2104 Health) 
    You may drink another health or mana elixir or tonic.
    2600h, 4265m, 29400e, 20262w xcdbk(sip health)
    Fitz Devi leaves to the ether.
    2600h, 4265m, 29400e, 20262w xcdbk
    Fitz Devi arrives from the ether.
    2600h, 4265m, 29400e, 20262w xcdbk
    Fitz's attack rebounds off your magical shield.
    2600h, 4265m, 29400e, 20262w xcdbk
    Hirst hurls himself against your shield in a futile attempt to harm you.
    2600h, 4265m, 29400e, 20262w xcdbk
    (sip health)
    You take a drink from an oaken vial.
    The elixir heals and soothes you.
    3717h, 4265m, 29400e, 20262w xcdbk(+1117 Health) 
    [Focus]: Focus Balance!
    3717h, 4265m, 29400e, 20262w xcdbk
    Lianca's attack rebounds off your magical shield.
    3717h, 4265m, 29400e, 20262w xcdbk
    You gasp and clutch at your throat as an unseen force crushes the breath of life out of you.
    As the force subsides, you struggle to shake the smirking visage of Nemutaur from your mind.
    1802h, 4265m, 29400e, 20262w xcdbk(-1915 Health) 
    The mystic glow on the Tarot card fades.
    1802h, 4265m, 29400e, 20274w xcdbk
    You take a drink from an oaken vial.
    The elixir flows down your throat without effect.
    1802h, 4265m, 29400e, 20274w xcdbk
    [Herbs]: Moss Balance!
    1802h, 4265m, 29400e, 20274w xcdbk(outr irid|eat irid)
    <---------------RECOVERED EQUILIBRIUM--------------->
    1802h, 4265m, 29400e, 20274w excdbk
    Fitz Devi leaves to the ether.
    1802h, 4265m, 29400e, 20274w excdbk
    Fitz Devi arrives from the ether.
    1802h, 4265m, 29400e, 20274w excdbk
    Fitz's attack rebounds off your magical shield.
    1802h, 4265m, 29400e, 20274w excdbk
    You gasp and clutch at your throat as an unseen force crushes the breath of life out of you.
    As the force subsides, you struggle to shake the smirking visage of Jarrel from your mind.
    27h, 4265m, 29400e, 20274w excdbk(-1775 Health) pt halp
    (outr irid|eat irid)
    [OUTR]: 1 Irid moss
    27h, 4265m, 29400e, 20274w excdbk
    [Eating Herb]: Moss!
    [Healed]: Moss Healing!
    686h, 4515m, 29400e, 20274w excdbk(+659 Health, +250 Mana) 
    Lianca's attack rebounds off your magical shield.
    686h, 4515m, 29400e, 20274w excdbkh
    (Party): You say, "Halp."
    686h, 4515m, 29400e, 20274w excdbk
    You gasp and clutch at your throat as an unseen force crushes the breath of life out of you.
    As the force subsides, you struggle to shake the smirking visage of Nemutaur from your mind.
    The power of the choking is too great to bear, and your vision is flooded with darkness as your life is snuffed out.
    You have been slain by Nemutaur.
    Your starburst tattoo flares as the world is momentarily tinted red.
    A group of 2 wood commodities falls out of your inventory.

    VaehlMizikSohlAsmodron
  • ManifestManifest Member Posts: 86 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Agree with all of the above.
  • ZeonZeon Member Posts: 757 @ - Epic Achaean
    @Nim already called dibs on paperwind

                   Party right, party hard,

                                            Sing and dance, perfect bard.

                                                                     Prefarar loop, accentato whore,

                                                                                             Buy a new rapier, get nerfed some more.

  • CahinCahin Member Posts: 1,246 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Occultist is one of the more powerful raid classes. Area wide tarot is fierce.  If you take away their strength in area wide group combat, then they would be stuck with their heavily trick based weak solo offense. That's not a nice thing to do.  

    Also, I don't think I've ever been in a raid where someone has asked if they have an Occultist.  I mean, I could see it happening if we were fighting Eleusis or something, but then it would be more like "why do they have an occultist?"

    Sherazad
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 1,893 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2013
    Cahin said:
    Occultist is one of the more powerful raid classes. Area wide tarot is fierce.  If you take away their strength in area wide group combat, then they would be stuck with their heavily trick based weak solo offense. That's not a nice thing to do.  

    Also, I don't think I've ever been in a raid where someone has asked if they have an Occultist.  I mean, I could see it happening if we were fighting Eleusis or something, but then it would be more like "why do they have an occultist?"
    Ah days occultists could be found anywhere. I miss asking on ct "anyone need karma?", Now I just toss it to a humgii. 
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