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Venom combinations and overall Knight Combat Techniques

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  • ArditiArditi Posts: 841Member

    Mizik said:
    Shrugging walking the plank. so dumb
    Will trade shrugging for three line illusions.

    SylvanceSimoln
  • MishgulMishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMPosts: 5,305Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    scales is more annoying than shrugging for me as a knight, but iirc artied monks blow through serpents.

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
  • JhuiJhui Posts: 1,954Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Mishgul said:
    scales is more annoying than shrugging for me as a knight, but iirc artied Ashuran monks blow through serpents.
    Fixed.

    a mounted/smart serpent is pretty hard to prone/double break for long enough to kill.  Ashura are fine using jpk though, so we good.
    image
    KyrraSylvance
  • SylvanceSylvance Posts: 1,477Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Jhui said:
    Mishgul said:
    scales is more annoying than shrugging for me as a knight, but iirc artied Ashuran monks blow through serpents.
    Fixed.

    a mounted/smart serpent is pretty hard to prone/double break for long enough to kill.  Ashura are fine using jpk though, so we good.
    So what? You're gonna leave your Bards and Bladies hanging like that?
    Tvistor: If that was a troll, it was masterful.
    I take my hat off to you.
  • JhuiJhui Posts: 1,954Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    those kids can kill just fine
    image
    Sylvance
  • WessuxWessux ChattanoogaPosts: 510Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Mishgul said:
    Also shrugging is fine, easy to get around
    Can you explain this a little further? Maybe PM?



    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
  • NemutaurNemutaur GermanyPosts: 1,068Member
    Sylvance said:
    Jhui said:
    Mishgul said:
    scales is more annoying than shrugging for me as a knight, but iirc artied Ashuran monks blow through serpents.
    Fixed.

    a mounted/smart serpent is pretty hard to prone/double break for long enough to kill.  Ashura are fine using jpk though, so we good.
    So what? You're gonna leave your Bards and Bladies hanging like that?
    Ask @Mizik about BM and the blunt Icon in raids. He loved it.
  • SantarSantar Posts: 2,382Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    A mounted Serpent isn't any better vs. monks than a mounted <insert other class>, so that's a pretty moot point to make. 

    image

    JovoloMizikJhuiTvistor
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,120Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Doesn't make much of a diff against Monks. More of a factor against runewardens, who are the most bummed out by shrugging. (give runies a way to bypass it for however amount of time and leave it as is agaisnt the rest of the classes? I prefer something like that than removing it altogether really).
    Exelethril
  • JhuiJhui Posts: 1,954Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Santar said:

    A mounted Serpent isn't any better vs. monks than a mounted <insert other class>, so that's a pretty moot point to make. 

    The point was that monks don't blow through serpents unless they are unmounted. (Unless you're ashuran)
    image
  • MizikMizik Posts: 2,027Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Man, monk so blows through Serpents.

    If the Serpent wants to postpone death, can start up an icewall/firelash battle.


    image
  • JhuiJhui Posts: 1,954Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    quit fighting bad serpents Miz and fight without icon.  You'll see
    image
    Sylvance
  • MizikMizik Posts: 2,027Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I didn't take over the strongest, largest House in the game's DICTATORSHIP to be shutting off the icon I had to squelch the entire Council of said House to re-tune.
    image
    Jhui
  • ExelethrilExelethril moar theta decayPosts: 3,101Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Santar said:
    Stop trying to nerf shrugging. Every class has defensive abillities. Serpents have no others forms of protection other than shrugging, nor do they have very much hindering. 

    In response to the double delph always going through - Absolutely not. That's essentially you saying that you want shrugging to only work when it doesn't matter much, and for it to not work against the things that do matter. I'm quite sure you -would-  like shrugging to never work when you don't want it to. Also, you're not having to spend 10 minutes to prep a Serpent. That's a gross exaggeration. Limb prep doesn't take more than a couple of minutes to prep unless you're against ridiculous hindering classes or classes with good defense against it(bards/occultists). In addition to that, if delph/delph is shrugged, that's only 1 leg that you have to reprep. You don't lose your whole prep.  Every class has the potential to blow their prep. Combat shouldn't be as simple as prepping and then just winning once you do. There has to be a lot of randomness/opportunity involved to make it interesting. You shouldn't expect to do the same thing against every class and to have it work the same. I'd love for fitness, rite of healing, halleluhah, grove heal, demon refuge, Priest heal, and necklace of purity to be removed.  Sure would benefit my class. 

    Shrugging isn't overpowered. Knights don't need another way to prone. Perhaps you're forgetting the multitude of defenses that each of the Knight classes have against Serpents(fitness, rune of healing, rite of healing). Serpent vs. Knight is equally balanced for each person right now. It's a matchup that is almost always decided by player skill, and nothing needs to be changed on either side.


    Also, I have no idea why I was 'tagged' in the above post. Please don't tag me in posts/topics that I have nothing to do with.
    Mathematically, there's only a 0.67*0.67 = ~0.45% success rate of actually having double delph go through each time, since if one shrug triggers, the entire set up is wasted. Each time it fails, re-prepping a competent serpent through shrugging other venoms is quite a hassle, so yeah, disagree.

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    WessuxMordric
  • JhuiJhui Posts: 1,954Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Santar was dumb about that point, don't listen to him.

    Serpent will need something else if it is removed though.
    image
    Sylvance
  • NaisarNaisar Posts: 255Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Yeah, going to have to agree with shrugging being slightly silly.  I don't mind it when it's popping off the venoms people are using for DPS or afflicting, but the very high likelihood of it passively destroying a carefully prepared setup is very nasty.  
  • ArditiArditi Posts: 841Member
    Naisar said:
    Yeah, going to have to agree with shrugging being slightly silly.  I don't mind it when it's popping off the venoms people are using for DPS or afflicting, but the very high likelihood of it passively destroying a carefully prepared setup is very nasty.  
    "My combat tactic is the only moral combat tactic".


    Acius
  • AradorArador Posts: 1,693Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Make Delph, Epseth and Epteth go through shrugging. Who cares about Sentinels and Bards?

  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USAPosts: 1,813Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If Lunge could target limbs, or if Battlecry was usable off-balance, it would also provide an alternative to the shrugging issue. In case of Battlecry, you'd still need prefarar, but only one of them would have to take effect, not both.
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
    Sylvance
  • SylvanceSylvance Posts: 1,477Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Aerek said:
    If Lunge could target limbs, or if Battlecry was usable off-balance, it would also provide an alternative to the shrugging issue. In case of Battlecry, you'd still need prefarar, but only one of them would have to take effect, not both.

    Welcome back, @Aerek
    Tvistor: If that was a troll, it was masterful.
    I take my hat off to you.
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,120Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2013
    Shrugging topic: Runewardens should really get a way to bypass shrugging. Paladin's ARGUABLY, and Infernal's are fine with shrugging. Knights are already immensely strong classes and serpent is just an interesting counter... it's Runewarden's that get truly effed over. Paladin's get two passive ways to strip shrugging, one of those silently. They also get amazing damage. Infernal's have leprosy, though it really needs to get its base eq sped up. It's at least faster than restoration balance, but how close it cuts it isn't very reasonable. Runewardens have nothing. 

    Don't really know what else to say about weapons, as I think Tecton is already working on it and probably already has a plan.
  • SylvanceSylvance Posts: 1,477Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    They're three different classes, man. Just because Palas and Infernals can do something doesn't mean Runies need to be able to do it.
    Tvistor: If that was a troll, it was masterful.
    I take my hat off to you.
  • SenaSena Posts: 3,821Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sylvance said:
    They're three different classes, man. Just because Palas and Infernals can do something doesn't mean Runies need to be able to do it.
    That's not "runewardens need this because the other knights have it", it's "runewardens need this, period, but the other knight classes don't because they already have it".
    MazothIsaiahFriztic
  • MishgulMishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMPosts: 5,305Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    To be fair rock paper scissors. Runewardens can go to knight hell

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
    JovoloIsaiah
  • AntoniusAntonius Posts: 4,193Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    There's the minor point of Runewardens also having one of the passive ways to strip defences that Paladins do, and that their damage isn't that far behind Paladin.
  • SylvanceSylvance Posts: 1,477Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Sena said:
    Sylvance said:
    They're three different classes, man. Just because Palas and Infernals can do something doesn't mean Runies need to be able to do it.
    That's not "runewardens need this because the other knights have it", it's "runewardens need this, period, but the other knight classes don't because they already have it".
    Ah, okay. I can get behind that argument. Un-Disagreeing.
    Tvistor: If that was a troll, it was masterful.
    I take my hat off to you.
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,120Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2013
    Antonius said:
    There's the minor point of Runewardens also having one of the passive ways to strip defences that Paladins do, and that their damage isn't that far behind Paladin.
    Is it passive? Assuming you mean tiwaz. I was under the impression it stripped defences only if you enter a room with it sketched (And a wunjo before it, too.). Its usefulness in this regard is not very high and not exactly comparable to cleansing. It would be more helpful if it actually worked as a passive ability in the room instead of an on-entrance ability.
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