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Elemental Lords and their Skills

DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,283Member @ - Epic Achaean
edited December 2017 in North of Thera
I've been talking with different Elemental Lords and some of them have really nice ideas that fits the theme and also possibly make the Elemental Lords more fun to play and stay in.

So I started this thread to air what you like, what you don't like, and what you'd love to see, for Elemental Lords, have fun!

Let me start:

Few things that I really like Earth Lords to enjoy:
  • Move freely through rubbles without movement delay
  • burrow and move underground at a quicker balance
  • allow more actions to be done while burrowed: reform, erruption
  • burrow above to do Quake-like effect
  • put up stone wall, like Gular
  • Am also thinking about burrow below and instant travel to people standing on outdoor ground, well.
And for all Elemental Lords
  • Coalesce to move to and back from Elemental Planes.
Just few stuffs I'd love to see on Earth Lord.
Snok
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Comments

  • AlyxeriAlyxeri Posts: 467Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited December 2017
    Let's not give more capability for stone walls.

    Moving freely through rubble (without a balance cost on movement a la leap/evade/etc) would also be ridiculously fucking broken.

    -------
    What I want for Air Lord:
    • Their bashing to not be fucking shit, to the point where it's literally the worst in the entire game, even behind SnB. Compounded by the fact they have the lowest base con (not counting Serpents), are about as tanky as a wet paper bag, and have a level of willpower consumption that puts even thornrend bashing as Sylvan to shame.
    • That's it.


    Shirszae
  • DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,283Member @ - Epic Achaean
    edited December 2017
    Alyxeri said:
    Let's not give more capability for stone walls.

    Moving freely through rubble (without a balance cost on movement a la leap/evade/etc) would also be ridiculously fucking broken.


    They are Earth Lords! Stones, rubbles, dusts, mud are their thing!

    Bashing for all Elemental Lords are not good.

    Also, their hunting damage output are not affected by arties, at least with my tests, wearing +3 gauntlets vs no gauntlets, as an Earth Lord. Not sure if it's intentional.
  • KeorinKeorin Posts: 515Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    My biggest wish would be for out of combat utility powers to be a little more evenly distributed. Right now, air has one of the best utility sets of any class, while the rest have little to nothing.

    I get that the various forms are supposed to appeal to different play styles, but I'm not sure why this applies to out of combat powers. And for air, it seems like there's no tradeoff. They've got solid group utility and a new, powerful momentum fighting style. Why do they also need to have far and away the best utility powers?
    AsmodronShirszae
  • DominiusDominius Posts: 116Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Because Air is cool
    DochithaTysandr
  • DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,283Member @ - Epic Achaean
    I try to not make this into "this is not good" complaint thread, make it a "I like more of" suggestive thread...please.
    KeorinSnokSynbiosKiet
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoPosts: 2,967Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    1. I wish Water Lords could transport themselves to pre-set or specified bodies of water like tarot users can throw a card and pick a landmark to go, or something vaguely similar.
    2. Also, yeah, the hunting is painful. 

    Otherwise I am quite happy with it.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    DochithaAsmodronShimi
  • DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,283Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Elisella said:
    Dominius said:
    Because Air is cool
    Based on Alyxeri's comments, it appears that Air...blows.
    Earth rocks. 
    Fire is hawt. 
    Water... plants. Farmer you. 
    Morro
  • AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,623Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    An actual way to break lyre.

    19 foot tall Earth monster can’t break puny primes shield, oh yez!


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    Telendrieth
  • SaviraSavira Posts: 8Member
    Atalkez said:
    An actual way to break lyre.

    19 foot tall Earth monster can’t break puny primes shield, oh yez!
    Manifest Qauke dosnt work?
    Dochitha
  • SynbiosSynbios Posts: 4,547Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Atalkez said:
    An actual way to break lyre.

    19 foot tall Earth monster can’t break puny primes shield, oh yez!
    Uh...

    Juggernaut (Sculpting)                        Known: Yes
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Syntax:            TERRAN JUGGERNAUT <target> <direction>
    Details:
    By channeling the fury of Garash, you may gather yourself and charge
    into a room against a target(*). You will smash through any ice or
    stonewalls in your path and knock over any totem the target may be
    propping before it can activate.

    In addition, the target will be knocked prone and take damage. If the
    target has a shield or prismatic barrier, the damage is reduced. If they
    do not, they are also stunned for a short time.

    * This ability has a windup time during which you may not do anything.
    People will follow you when performing this ability.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dochitha
  • ElisellaElisella Posts: 102Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Dochitha said:
    Elisella said:
    Dominius said:
    Because Air is cool
    Based on Alyxeri's comments, it appears that Air...blows.
    Earth rocks. 
    Fire is hawt. 
    Water... plants. Farmer you. 
    Water is tears. And whine.
  • AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,623Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Okay let me rephrase!

    Juggernaut is too slow as a lyre break to continue offense. They stand and relyre before you can do anything.

    Im not sure if Quake doesn’t anything other than prone them behind the lyre.

    Best option is titan then paste, but if you’re not at max shaping to titan, that’s also not an option.

    As far as I know, Air also suffers vs lyre. Just stand there staring at them.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • MindshellMindshell Posts: 234Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I like the implementation of asphyxiation for air, helping the class with what it's designed for. Would be happy to see similar concessions for some of the others too tailored to their design. Earth is an entirely limb focused class but has no predict, water uses bleed but has no discern, I don't know fire too well yet, but I can see reason for letting them see an opponents current total fire resist given the resist negation mechanics.
    ShirszaeDochitha
  • FarrahFarrah Posts: 1,834Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2017
    A lot of that is just unnecessary though. Earth can count limbs just fine. There's no real need for predict. Water relies on haemophilia to stick bleed, which means no clotting, so you can easily track bleed by just counting your bleed hits. Fire has gauge for balanceless assess, which is what they really care about.

    I just want earth-burrow. :(

    I also don't think Titan needs the penalty it has at the end when it already has a ten minute CD.
  • AralayaAralaya Posts: 976Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Earth Lord to not break my arms when I forsake earth please q.q


    Tecton-Today at 6:17 PM

    teehee b.u.t.t. pirates
  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaPosts: 2,377Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Aralaya said:
    Earth Lord to not break my arms when I forsake earth please q.q
    Lmao, I just thought they all give disrupt (Air does).

    What do forsaking Fire (I can guess) and Water do?
    (Mhaldor): Herenicus says, "Apologies, I am in-and-out of hold with Verizon wireless customer service."
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoPosts: 2,967Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Water makes you bleed when you forsake it.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • FarrahFarrah Posts: 1,834Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Probably ablaze and freeze lol.

    Disrupt is the worst. Will keep my broken arms.
  • TorinnTorinn Posts: 825Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Fire makes you on fire.
    Deucalion says, "Torinn is quite nice."
  • SynbiosSynbios Posts: 4,547Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Atalkez said:
    Okay let me rephrase!

    Juggernaut is too slow as a lyre break to continue offense. They stand and relyre before you can do anything.

    I think that Juggernaut is meant to serve as an initiator in group combat. After all, lunge with wallbreak AND prop bypass? Now I may be no group combat expert, but that seems like this can induce excessive moistness in any raid/raid defense leader.

    Cailin
  • ArmaliArmali Posts: 1,025Member, Secret Squirrel ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Juggernaut is an initiation move.
  • KeorinKeorin Posts: 515Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    The biggest thing I'd like for fire lord is to feel like I'm actually good at setting things on fire. The other elements have this in spades, with whirlpools/flooding/tidalwaves/sea monsters for water, tornado/stormfront/stormhammer for air, rubble/titan for earth.

    Currently, fire has firewalls, the ability to make room hot, and a few abilities that set a target ablaze (which it can't really even stick), and that's about it. Compare this to magi, which can stack ablaze, start multi-room firestorms, and create massive fire explosions, and I'm having a bit of trouble feeling like much of a master of fire.

    I don't want to try to comment on the combat side of things right now, since I don't think I have a great understanding of where the class is in overall balance right now, but if I were to toss out some general thematic ideas:

    -The ability to set rooms ablaze/start firestorms/change the room's type (summoning magma?). After watching Jeramun light up entire areas, and trekking through a plane covered in lava fields, I'd love it if fire had some sort of skill that could effect the environment beyond what an enchanted ring can do.

    -Some kind of explosive/room damage ability. For an an avatar of fire that's thematically tied to volcanoes, fire lord currently comes out feeling surprisingly restrained right now, having pretty much only single target powers.

    -Some kind of comet power like @Asmodron suggests. After watching Jeramun streak around the world, I'd love it if fire lord had something similar, especially if it brought some kind of utility like tracking to the table. 

    -Some sort of big, flashy capstone power. Right now, incandescence seems intended to fill this role, and while it's neat, I feel like it falls short of capturing the same feeling that the other elements manage. Hydra and Titan, for instance, while having limited combat applicability, have area-wide echoes, some absurdly nice lines when they go off, and capture an overall sense of scale that feels appropriate for an elemental lord. Incandescence is nice, but it's oddly defensive for fire and doesn't feel terribly impactful, in mechanics or description.

    And I suppose this is probably just a matter of personal taste, but I can't help but wish that the combat strategy for fire was a -little- less straight forward then it is now. I get that it's supposed to be simple and damage focused, but only having a single kill path and a small set of attacks to get there just doesn't feel great to me. Just a small expansion on how it fights could make the whole thing feel far more dynamic and fun, I think.
    AsmodronTorinnShirszae
  • DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,283Member @ - Epic Achaean
    I hope Terran Bury does more damage or has quicker balance, and if the damage can scale with torso damage or shape, or number of limbs broken, it's even better. Reason: People can still sip health and eat moss (though can't outr) while burrowed, so it's currently almost impossible to damage people down, artied ones especially.
  • TaryiusTaryius Posts: 385Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Dochitha said:
    I hope Terran Bury does more damage or has quicker balance, and if the damage can scale with torso damage or shape, or number of limbs broken, it's even better. Reason: People can still sip health and eat moss (though can't outr) while burrowed, so it's currently almost impossible to damage people down, artied ones especially.
    Pretty sure you aren't supposed to be able to do anything while burrowed, including sipping and eating.
  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaPosts: 2,377Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Burrowed has always allowed SIP / EAT / APPLY.
    (Mhaldor): Herenicus says, "Apologies, I am in-and-out of hold with Verizon wireless customer service."
    Farrah
  • PenwizePenwize Posts: 1,328Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It's definitely been allowed for a long, long time.  I've used burrow as a bashing escape to heal in a few places, and even had some pre-burrowing outrift stuff written for certain times I'd burrow a long while back.
    Dochitha
  • MindshellMindshell Posts: 234Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Farrah said:
    A lot of that is just unnecessary though. Earth can count limbs just fine. There's no real need for predict. Water relies on haemophilia to stick bleed, which means no clotting, so you can easily track bleed by just counting your bleed hits. Fire has gauge for balanceless assess, which is what they really care about.

    I just want earth-burrow. :(

    I also don't think Titan needs the penalty it has at the end when it already has a ten minute CD.
    This is disingenuous to the spirit of the suggestions, you don't start out knowing all the break points and it takes a lot of work to fine tune it down given limb damage is intentionally obfuscated, being able to double check yourself is an entirely legitimate tool. Bleeding comes from numerous sources and is absolutely not a case of just counting your hits, when there are pets, parrying, other players, as well as even knowing if haemophilia was the affliction that got cured when they ate or not. Fire I don't care, conceptually I drew from counting choleric or being able to track sensitivity, but yeah, damage is damage.
    ShirszaeDochithaSynbios
  • CaliraCalira Posts: 490Member, Secret Squirrel ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I, for one, am glad that Terran Bury is not a viable kill route. The setup for Fissure is so easy and you can freeze ground to keep people down longer.
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