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I need help clarifying my opinion of theft.

RilinstraRilinstra Posts: 2Member
  Now I don't have as much experience as many of you with this topic im sure, I very infrequently have anything stolen from me, so far nothing ever personal. So in that regard my opinion of theft has always been pretty nonchalant, more like a prank and you go back and fourth a bit, presumably the other player is looking for a fight and not a fortune, etc. 

  However, I have now been the victim of theft with what I feel was the intent to do wrong. While the player did not get much from me, because I carry very little gold on my person, this person knows me very well, knows my defense system, hell they even know the names of my random, and seemingly personal containers. This is why I know when I was disconnected and all my securities popped like a soda top, this person having so much experience dealing with me, clearly knew something was wrong, or at least different.

  Is it wrong of me to think as a member of a small community of gamers here, that there should be a second thought here? Am I just being a big cry-baby? (keep in mind, i didn't lose more then about 4k gold, what I lost was my personal view of a particular action.)

  Whats your opinion?
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Comments

  • AlyxeriAlyxeri Posts: 467Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    If you DC, close the client as soon as possible if you're not able to reconnect quickly. That'll force your character out of the game, rather than waiting for the timeout.

    The onus should never be on the thief, in my opinion, when theft is so easy to counter- and that's coming from someone that doesn't value theft as a particularly good game mechanic in the first place. From my experience though, most thieves (at least the ones that aren't just troll alts made for the specific reason to steal from people as much as possible before they start getting ganked back to Minia) are generally willing to work things out with you, if you lose something valuable. So there's that, too.
  • AntidasAntidas Posts: 1,410Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It is kinda shitty to intentionally rob someone who you know is disconnected. That being said, if you didn't lose more than 4k, its not a big deal. Thing is, its not the action that you should judge - its the people who do it. For example, I don't think I've ever heard a bad thing said about Tuerney, an old Hashani thief. I never interacted with him personally, but from what I gather, he always made his theft interactions interesting. I do my best to make mine more than just snap and leave as well, although I'm sure plenty of people have varying opinions of me (thats ok, I don't care).

    On the other hand, there are people like Glint or Dajio who made no real effort to do anything but make as much gold as possible. Its these people who give theft a bad name.

    tl;dr don't let a couple bad apples ruin your opinion of something. Just remember that there is at least one asshole in any given field/thing.

  • JacenJacen Posts: 2,283Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Alyxeri said:
    If you DC, close the client as soon as possible if you're not able to reconnect quickly. That'll force your character out of the game, rather than waiting for the timeout.
    Is this true? I don't really see how it could be...
    image
    Utianima
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna bePosts: 3,370Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jacen said:
    Alyxeri said:
    If you DC, close the client as soon as possible if you're not able to reconnect quickly. That'll force your character out of the game, rather than waiting for the timeout.
    Is this true? I don't really see how it could be...
    Its not.
    Huh. Neat.
    Utianima
  • AlyxeriAlyxeri Posts: 467Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited December 2017
    Ahmet said:
    Jacen said:
    Alyxeri said:
    If you DC, close the client as soon as possible if you're not able to reconnect quickly. That'll force your character out of the game, rather than waiting for the timeout.
    Is this true? I don't really see how it could be...
    Its not.
    Worked every time for me! My timeout's 30, and I poof immediately if I close my client on dc. Already tested as much when road works was fucking with our internet, and I was dropping every 5 minutes. Pretty easy to test yourself just by reloading https://www.achaea.com/portal/ and checking online players immediately after doing so.


  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna bePosts: 3,370Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    That's because your client sends a signal to the server when it closes. Which, if you aren't actually connected to the internet, it cannot do.
    Huh. Neat.
    Utianima
  • CaelanCaelan Posts: 862Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I miss Tenebrus.  

    AustereDairon
  • AustereAustere TennesseePosts: 2,127Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Caelan said:
    I miss Tenebrus.  
    As someone that got robbed by Tenebrus, me too. Most of all, anytime he gets mentioned, I miss old dragon magi. That one shot firelash anytime he was being a bully always cracked me up. 
    MorthifDairon
  • AsmodronAsmodron Posts: 2,301Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    A lot of us have terrible memories of what theft used to be. Those days when you'd hear on your city channel that someone stole their pack, weapon  or even worse back then...a rare item like a unique tarot deck. A good thief would know what to look for first and know what would bring in the gold. There are also those unfortunate people that would look away just at the wrong moment...before a thief snaps them and they are stripped bare. Finally, there are those that were simply not preppared..or experienced lag..and lost it all.

    Theft back then was just toxic, most primarily to newcomers to the game.

    I rather enjoy the current system. It feels much more based on subterfuge and it isnt just based on attacking players. Prevention is easier and the repercussions of success are also much less dire (unless you're one of those people that carries piles of gold right in a pack..).  You can experience the RP of  being a thief by targetting denizens too, thus you wont have to gain infamy.

    Tl;dr: Theft is muuuuuch less painful than it once was, and attempting to harm someone with it seems like an empty threat. In your case, I'd just ignore this individual and switch up your prevention tactic.
  • CaelanCaelan Posts: 862Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Austere said:
    Caelan said:
    I miss Tenebrus.  
    As someone that got robbed by Tenebrus, me too. Most of all, anytime he gets mentioned, I miss old dragon magi. That one shot firelash anytime he was being a bully always cracked me up. 
    Hehe.  Well that, but he always robbed people with so much class.   Wasn't a complete twit about it usually, made you better - but still found a way.  Just, the kind of thief you're like "Damn, good one".

  • CobaultCobault Posts: 87Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Theft is a topic I've debated more than once. It went through some awful changes before arriving at the trash that it is now. I'm more prone to use it on denizens rather than other people.. It's just not worth the hassle, which I'm guessing was the objective when this mechanic was twisted into the pitiful state it's in now. You ever tried pickpocketing a specific item? Even with all the proper bells and whistles that "help" pull it off, it's borderline impossible. I've never seen it succeed once, personally. 

    I would've rather they raised level cap to 80 for theft targets while maintaining the old style of theft. Since we have Dragons under 25 now.

    Basically... Complaining on the current system, even as a disconnect makes you a crybaby in my eyes. A disconnected player robbed back in my day would probably go dormant if a true asshole thief (I mean a real PoS human) got ahold of them, cus they'd log back in with NOTHING. Mfs would steal their shoes and all just to do it. The current theft system is so dumbed down and garbage by comparison I'm waiting for it to either get removed entirely or for "serverside antitheft" to somehow be implemented. Just keep a trivial amount of gold on you at all times, which it sounds like you did.
  • CobaultCobault Posts: 87Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    @Antonius this entire game is a system of fucking up until you learn a lesson on how to prevent it or overcome it. But I'm guessing you're one of those people that wants Achaea spelled out in black and white for idiots of all ages where it practically plays itself.

    And bar one or two pieces of shit, there weren't really many thieves when I was a newb that had the troll intent to rob people until they quit. This stupid fucking Achaea player base logic of "OMG ITS TOO OP. IT NEEDS TO EITHER BE NERFED TO NOTHING OR REMOVED COMPLETELY" is exactly why we can't have nice things.
  • SobriquetSobriquet Posts: 1,813Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Cobault said:
    @Antonius this entire game is a system of fucking up until you learn a lesson on how to prevent it or overcome it. But I'm guessing you're one of those people that wants Achaea spelled out in black and white for idiots of all ages where it practically plays itself

    And bar one or two pieces of shit, there weren't really many thieves when I was a newb that had the troll intent to rob people until they quit. This stupid fucking Achaea player base logic of "OMG ITS TOO OP. IT NEEDS TO EITHER BE NERFED TO NOTHING OR REMOVED COMPLETELY" is exactly why we can't have nice things.
    I can reel off a ton of names who were quite happy to rob people blind until they quit. The Achaea player base has proven time and time again that when presented with an opportunity to fuck people over, they will do it. Jesters with puppet lock + shake, Latus getting shafted at the cave when Mark's didn't get Grace, people thinking earning 14m gold from shipping trades is ok until they get caught. Theft was one of those things that is only nostalgic for those who it worked for and have a very low morality when it comes to understanding what is enjoyable in a multiplayer game. Tenebrus gets mentioned a lot, but for good reason. He made theft enjoyable for the victim, a very large selection of thieves did not. 

    Achaea is a significantly better place now with the way theft is. There are numerous ways this game is "Dangerous" without losing everything. 

    And yes, I played a Naga for many years and stolen many things* so I'm not just talking from a bitter victims experience. 

    *Including a bakery in cyrene, which was fun. 
    image
    KyrraSynbiosAsmodronZbaco
  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaPosts: 2,377Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I still have my top hat anti-theft triggers, even though you can't steal that way anymore :weary:
    (Mhaldor): Herenicus says, "Apologies, I am in-and-out of hold with Verizon wireless customer service."
  • KeorinKeorin Posts: 449Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    The problem with old theft wasn't that it was dangerous and players now just can't handle that, the problem was that it was a shitty mechanic from the start. The entirety of the danger and loss from theft was placed on the victim, while all of the reward was the thief's. There was no meaningful recourse for being stolen from. Sure, you could hunt the thief down, even multiple times, but even if you could catch them, a few deaths hardly rival the potentially massive rewards. And really, the current system still has many of these problems. You can still lose large sums of gold, or even a container, it's just less likely.

    I think if they were going to bring back old theft, the best way to make it fair would be to make any thief be subject to permadeath if they're killed by an adventurer. Thieves like dangerous gameplay, so that would be even more fun for them, I presume.
  • AsmodronAsmodron Posts: 2,301Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2017
    I've been on both ends of the spectrum with theft. It is exhilarating and rewarding for the thief, as they are practically hitting a pinata and seeing what goodies they get. It is demoralizing and shattering for the victim, as they see their hard work taken away in seconds. It is truly a terrible loss and dying/losing xp doesnt even come close to comparing.
  • AralayaAralaya Posts: 777Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited December 2017
    I never played under 'old theft' so I don't know any of the specifics of it, but a system that allows one person to ruin another person's game experience simply because they walk away from their computer for a little bit or their internet cuts out or whatever, is a broken system that should be nerfed or removed. Personally, I like the current theft system, its effects aren't too drastic and most of the thieves (at least the ones I've encountered) are good sports about it and don't try to actively fuck someone over.


    Tecton-Today at 6:17 PM

    teehee b.u.t.t. pirates
    Zbaco
  • AlyxeriAlyxeri Posts: 467Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Cobault said:
    @Antonius this entire game is a system of fucking up until you learn a lesson on how to prevent it or overcome it. But I'm guessing you're one of those people that wants Achaea spelled out in black and white for idiots of all ages where it practically plays itself.

    No, people abusing the ever living shit out of things for their own amusement, quite often with disregard to everybody else playing the game, is why you can't have nice things. I'm surprised you can even see the game from atop that stupidly high horse you have there.

    Saying they're a crybaby if a disconnect leads to them being stripped, just makes you look like a fucking asshole. Nothing more. It's a good thing these are the kind of opinions the admin don't listen to.
  • TorinnTorinn Posts: 695Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited December 2017
    I've never done theft myself but I can only imagine the excuses people come up with to get their stuff back.  Which are real?  Which are just attempts to get their stuff back because they're angry/surprised/whatever even though it was legitimate gameplay?  The actual disconnect of a character can happen anywhere from five minutes to five hours after the actual disconnect happens, do you want the thief to hang around "just in case"?  At some point you just have to shrug and say "I'm sorry you may have disconnected, I have no real way to know" and play from there.  I've never had issues getting stuff back, primarily through RP means.  A lot of people simply start yelling OOC and do you think they should be given their stuff back after throwing a tantrum?
    Deucalion says, "Torinn is quite nice."
  • AntoniusAntonius Posts: 4,339Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Torinn said:
    I've never done theft myself but I can only imagine the excuses people come up with to get their stuff back.  Which are real?  Which are just attempts to get their stuff back because they're angry/surprised/whatever even though it was legitimate gameplay?  The actual disconnect of a character can happen anywhere from five minutes to five hours after the actual disconnect happens, do you want the thief to hang around "just in case"?  At some point you just have to shrug and say "I'm sorry you may have disconnected, I have no real way to know" and play from there.  I've never had issues getting stuff back, primarily through RP means.  A lot of people simply start yelling OOC and do you think they should be given their stuff back after throwing a tantrum?
    They shouldn't have to throw a tantrum, because their stuff shouldn't be able to be taken. I have never thought that theft was a necessary or beneficial aspect of the game, and I've never personally lost anything I care about to theft.
    Shirszae
  • TorinnTorinn Posts: 695Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I can agree with that.  But we have it so.... *Shrug*
    Deucalion says, "Torinn is quite nice."
  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaPosts: 2,377Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    They made the Underworld medallions steal-able as if to say pickpocketing is valid in counterintelligence.
    (Mhaldor): Herenicus says, "Apologies, I am in-and-out of hold with Verizon wireless customer service."
  • TiamatTiamat Posts: 57Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Just learn how to rob shops, it is what all the cool kids are doing these days. It is as close as one can get to the old game mechanics, with a large reward waiting for you at the end. Currently the actual pickpocket command; I just use it on NPC's myself. Actually stealing from a player is a pain in the ass, most of their keys dont unlock anything anyways. I never really was into stealing until I got stolen from, one too many times.
    Asmodron
  • CobaultCobault Posts: 87Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    It's okay to read what I said wrong. A couple of you gave valid points, a handful of you are morons that have no clue how Serpent works. Being pickpocketed while disconnected shouldn't be the end of your world. You can have zero antitheft, gold right in the pack, and they still won't take anything important off you as long as you don't walk around with tons of gold. Honestly, I'd be a lot more on board with pickpocket if it took more than a piss ass little 5k per go. Double that would be a bit more worth it imo. Maybe I'll classlead next go. 

    But hey, it's cool. We still have ships and pirating. Nobody cares about that yet.
  • AlyxeriAlyxeri Posts: 467Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Lol.   
  • CobaultCobault Posts: 87Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Oh look. One of the aforementioned morons.
  • MinifieMinifie Posts: 1,385Member @ - Epic Achaean
    No one read your post "wrong", your opinion is "wrong".
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