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Monthly promos + org credits

KietKiet Posts: 2,213Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
This gets brought up every so often, but it's still been completely unaddressed so I figured I'd go for another round.

It's ridiculous that the vast majority of monthly promos give absolutely no credits to the orgs. When someone buys a globe or a wheel spin, the orgs should get a credit reward. If not this approach, then every monthly promo should reward credit purchases in a big way, too.

When we have systems like bounties, stipends, city improvements, credit sales etc. draining gold and credits constantly, it places unnecessary stress on organizations when we have several months of just non-creditsale promos. To simply stop doing these systems entirely is not really a realistic option, it simply makes some cities less appealing than others and worsens the problem with shrinking population. While Mhaldor is generally 'fine' as is for now, I'm sure there's some cities already running into this issue in a more urgent manner.

It's also healthy for the organizations to be able to reward their players and leaders in some way. After all, isn't the organization doing its job in retaining the players in the first place? Without our organizations, who's going to stick around and actually buy anything in Achaea?
AntidasTorinnSolnirCooperSerinShaydeAralayaAnzeSirrionThalakMelodiePuxiXiasPenwizeTreyZackeryAchillesKeorinYselaShirszaeSherazad

Comments

  • SiduriSiduri Posts: 1,437Member @ - Epic Achaean
    On the other hand, wheel and globe/cache promos might become illegal in European countries in the future, following the EA judgement in Belgium and the logic followed by authorities. But that's an entirely different can of worms.

    image
  • MinifieMinifie Posts: 1,133Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Would it be possible to make it based on US$ spent in transactions instead of credit numbers? That way no matter what is purchased, cities benefit. In turn, you can reduce how much is earned by it but it always trickles down for others in the game from others spending, which is not a bad thing (and may assist with cities being able to hold more credit sales and make the players who can't afford credits more likely to stick around and go whole hog on earning the stuff IG.)
    Laedha
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaPosts: 6,276Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    While I agree with you on this fundamentally and won't dispute it, it does sort of raise a vaguely related issue that I've noticed a LOT over the past few years.

    Organizations in general seem hilariously unwilling to part with these massive stores of gold and credits that they have. Leaders go unrewarded, people that do excellent work largely remain unrewarded, things that require sovereigns to make happen are gawked at with disdain and hesitance. Obviously this isn't the case everywhere, but it is something apparently endemic to Achaean organizations, be them Houses or cities.

    Spend your goddamn stores. Keep a reasonable set of coffers, but if you've got thousands of credits and millions of gold and you're just sitting on them doing absolutely nothing with them, what's even the point? I know some places offer generous creditsales, but most don't. Spend it. Make the absence of these missing org credits more keenly felt.
    ZekerosTorinnYsela
  • TreyTrey Posts: 4,530Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Mhaldor - come for the sermons, stay for the creditsales! We do tun them fairly regularly, and I think Kiet's point is to support that we want to keep doing so because it's good for the game.

  • KietKiet Posts: 2,213Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 30
    Daeir said:
    While I agree with you on this fundamentally and won't dispute it, it does sort of raise a vaguely related issue that I've noticed a LOT over the past few years.

    Organizations in general seem hilariously unwilling to part with these massive stores of gold and credits that they have. Leaders go unrewarded, people that do excellent work largely remain unrewarded, things that require sovereigns to make happen are gawked at with disdain and hesitance. Obviously this isn't the case everywhere, but it is something apparently endemic to Achaean organizations, be them Houses or cities.

    Spend your goddamn stores. Keep a reasonable set of coffers, but if you've got thousands of credits and millions of gold and you're just sitting on them doing absolutely nothing with them, what's even the point? I know some places offer generous creditsales, but most don't. Spend it. Make the absence of these missing org credits more keenly felt.
    I can't blame some orgs for not even bothering to spend them when it's very clear spending them will eventually become a loss when we get another 6 months of wheels/globes/whatever. Really, it only takes one month of non-standard promos to start dipping negative.

    Organizations should all be rewarding their leaders and members, and imo they should be pushed to do this by the admin. But that's unreasonable without actually giving consistent income for the orgs.

    The current state of affairs might be for profit or something, I don't know. But whatever the reason for not rewarding orgs for the non-standard promos is short-sighted. It ends in nothing but more loss of players in the future.
    ElipiseYsela
  • SolnirSolnir Posts: 425Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Ahhh... I remember the days of city creditsales. Seems so long ago, now, looking back...
    Mathilda
  • AchillesAchilles Los AngelesPosts: 2,345Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Templars and now the Dawnblade have huge gold and credit reserves.  We should be reviewing the sales regularly to encourage participation.
    image
  • TorinnTorinn Posts: 589Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I think kiet is suggesting doing more than just credit sales, and I agree.  I reward with credits to those that go above and beyond, or do persistent good work.  We are still sitting on a large pile even with creditsales every year and rewarding activity.  I personally don't think there is a good reason to hoard them so much.
    Deucalion says, "Torinn is quite nice."
  • CooperCooper IowaPosts: 4,174Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    One of the other problems is that this disproportionately hurts the smaller cities.

    From what I know of what Shallam had, there was more than one Shallam house that had more gold/credits than both current Mhaldor houses+Mhaldor have now.

    Mhaldor has been really good at giving out credit rewards, and it is starting to show in our bank accounts. We are not broke by any means, but we can definitely feel the hurt of basically having 0 credit income.

    Ysela
  • PuxiPuxi Posts: 265Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Torinn said:
    I think kiet is suggesting doing more than just credit sales, and I agree.  I reward with credits to those that go above and beyond, or do persistent good work.  We are still sitting on a large pile even with creditsales every year and rewarding activity.  I personally don't think there is a good reason to hoard them so much.
    If you have the ability to reward credits and are still sitting on a pile, is there a game mechanic that limits you passing out more than you do today?
  • KietKiet Posts: 2,213Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yes, the fact that with these promos you'll eventually run out if you give more credits out. No one wants to be the person that hits 0 credits/gold for their org

  • KeorinKeorin Posts: 396Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I've tried to push for using house coffers for more, but you just immediately run into a natural reluctance to run a house at a deficit. Much of this fear is likely overblown, given available reserves, but when you start calculating how many credits you'll be regularly losing, you can run into sticker shock pretty darn quick. 

    Plus, since getting more people doesn't so easily translate to getting more income with the promotions, the more successful that your house is, the less sustainable any given program is going to be. Even a handful of full members reliably making use of a creditsale can add up to a relatively big drain, and when you're dealing with next to no income, that can make it hard to justify adding new expenses, especially since any credit reward program is going to be very hard to kill, long term.

    Houses often hoard their bank accounts too much, for sure, but it's a little unfair to expect houses to use them liberally when the systems in play seem to so heavily discourage that.
    TorinnKietShirszae
  • AntidasAntidas Posts: 1,361Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Would love to get some admin response to this, @Makarios @Nicola. At least so we know what your stances are on the matter :)

  • NicolaNicola Posts: 591Administrator Achaean staff
    Sarapis has answered this a few times on forums. It's an IRE-level decision and at the moment the decision is that only credit purchases will give free credits to the organisations. Makarios and I don't have a say in this.
    AntidasSiduriShirszaeZulah
  • DevranDevran Posts: 476Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I think I'm going to be very unpopular when I say this, but I'm honestly surprised at the attitude that most people have on this.

    It's only by IRE/Sarapis' generosity that Orgs get ANY bonus credits at all. Stating that it's 'ridiculous' that Orgs aren't getting free credits from promos... Are you high?
  • MinifieMinifie Posts: 1,133Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Devran said:
    I think I'm going to be very unpopular when I say this, but I'm honestly surprised at the attitude that most people have on this.

    It's only by IRE/Sarapis' generosity that Orgs get ANY bonus credits at all. Stating that it's 'ridiculous' that Orgs aren't getting free credits from promos... Are you high?
    You have to keep even people who pay 0 dollars in, because if we don't have a population the people who spend wouldn't stick around either. It's always beneficial to ensure that every player stays, and that some players can dump cash and get them goodies fast, or some can hold their cash hard and find more time consuming methods to achieve the same result. Orgs getting credits just means that it is sped up ever so much, and 2.5k per cr instead of 10k is definitely nice.
  • KietKiet Posts: 2,213Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 30
    Devran said:
    I think I'm going to be very unpopular when I say this, but I'm honestly surprised at the attitude that most people have on this.

    It's only by IRE/Sarapis' generosity that Orgs get ANY bonus credits at all. Stating that it's 'ridiculous' that Orgs aren't getting free credits from promos... Are you high?
    By that logic, it is only by the generosity of paying customers that decide +3 to strength is worth hundreds of dollars that Achaea remains open.

    The reality is that it benefits Achaea, and the other IRE games, for organizations to be a potential for reward and encouragement. It fosters community and attachment, which fosters player retention. Player retention means more money.

    As it is, this system punishes organizations who reward their members, and punishes those who attract more high-contribution players even further. Why spend org credits/gold on members if you might need them for more practical things like more city improvements or an org ship or who knows what else? If rewarding people only puts you in the negative, why wouldn't you hoard gold/credits forever in case of an emergency (like Cyrene losing devo)?


  • CaelanCaelan Posts: 798Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Kiet said:
    Devran said:
    I think I'm going to be very unpopular when I say this, but I'm honestly surprised at the attitude that most people have on this.

    It's only by IRE/Sarapis' generosity that Orgs get ANY bonus credits at all. Stating that it's 'ridiculous' that Orgs aren't getting free credits from promos... Are you high?
    By that logic, it is only by the generosity of paying customers that decide +3 to strength is worth hundreds of dollars that Achaea remains open.

    The reality is that it benefits Achaea, and the other IRE games, for organizations to be a potential for reward and encouragement. It fosters community and attachment, which fosters player retention. Player retention means more money.

    As it is, this system punishes organizations who reward their members, and punishes those who attract more high-contribution players even further. Why spend org credits/gold on members if you might need them for more practical things like more city improvements or an org ship or who knows what else? If rewarding people only puts you in the negative, why wouldn't you hoard gold/credits forever in case of an emergency (like Cyrene losing devo)?


    Y'all bitches be welcome.

    KoganSiduri
  • KeorinKeorin Posts: 396Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Devran said:
    I think I'm going to be very unpopular when I say this, but I'm honestly surprised at the attitude that most people have on this.

    It's only by IRE/Sarapis' generosity that Orgs get ANY bonus credits at all. Stating that it's 'ridiculous' that Orgs aren't getting free credits from promos... Are you high?
    The original goal of house credits was to have something to reward leaders with, from what's been said. This morphed into a way to provide a limited number of low cost credits to members, which often become one of the main ways that newer players can actually afford credits early on.

    Is it generous? Arguably, but the reasoning for having that pool always seemed pretty darn sound and necessary. Especially with a game that's often a bit light on admin, orgs do a -ton- of the heavy lifting in terms of introducing novices to the game, immersing them in the world, and keeping them around. This hasn't gotten any -less- true, while on the other hand, org creditsales and the like are only becoming more necessary (as credit prices have inflated 55% or something in the last two years, while novice quest and hunting gold remains at a very similar place to where it's always been), and harder to come by (as it's been increasingly clear that the priorities for monetizing the game have shifted towards monthly promotions, especially gambling ones).

    No one's asking for an overall increase in the credits that orgs bring in, people are just opposed to how much these policies have throttled that income.
  • CooperCooper IowaPosts: 4,174Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Nicola said:
    Sarapis has answered this a few times on forums. It's an IRE-level decision and at the moment the decision is that only credit purchases will give free credits to the organisations. Makarios and I don't have a say in this.
    That is extremely disappointing, but not surprising.

    Ysela
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