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  • KyrraKyrra Sanctum of the SkyPosts: 4,292Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tysandr said:
    The utility of a thread like this approaches

    0


    You can take the people out of Cyrene, but you cannot take the Cyrene out of people.
    I don’t know about that. I’d like to think Kyrra’s done really well since moving to Ashtan from Cyrene.
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

    MelodieShirszaeDaironTysandr
  • MelodieMelodie MhaldorPosts: 4,531Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kyrra said:
    Tysandr said:
    The utility of a thread like this approaches

    0


    You can take the people out of Cyrene, but you cannot take the Cyrene out of people.
    I don’t know about that. I’d like to think Kyrra’s done really well since moving to Ashtan from Cyrene.
    Yeah, have you looked at HELP MHALDOR, lately? There are a ton of people who were previous Cyrenians for a stretch of time. Some longer than others for sure, but all the same. We laugh about it on a weekly basis.
    "You have had an extraordinary adventure, my dear. Extraordinary! One that few people could ever imagine. Treasure it. Keep it safe and secure, tucked away in some special place in your heart. 

    But... don't spend the rest of your days chasing a ghost."
    Dochitha
  • TorinnTorinn Posts: 480Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Space marine ideology fits Targ pretty well. Used to joke that Farrah was the Emperor of Mankind.  (Though not a zombie)
    Deucalion says, "Torinn is quite nice."
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaPosts: 6,169Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Pretty sure the Imperium would not be okay with a group of people rejecting the divine wisdom of the Emperor of Man 
    :pleased::pleased:
  • IllarionIllarion Posts: 43Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Keorin said:
    Aeryllin said:
    Daeir said:
     No leader should have a tenure that spans literal IRL years, no matter how good they are.
    I mean, honestly, why not?  If the people are happy and things are running smoothly - and by and large they are, else people wouldn't stay in the numbers they do - why not?  If it is not broken, why try to fix it?  You're more likely to make things worse than better.
    There's a lot of fundamental issues with an unchanging government, I think, and Cyrene's more specifically, but there are two big ones in my mind.

    loads of interesting stuff

    As a long term player who checks in now and then, these "state of the nation" threads are always really interesting to read, and try and get a temperature reading on how things are going.  The consistency of the themes across ten years or more is really interesting to me.

    Anyway, just checking in to say that @Keorin's point here is massively undervalued.  I have nothing but the highest respect for @Verrucht, who (on other chars) I've had the pleasure of RPing with but it's just wrong to hold on to a central position like that for so long.  No matter how good you are, no matter if you are still, after RL years the best person for the job, it's still wrong.  And it's bad for the game.

    I think you have a moral responsibility to step down after around 50 IC years (at an absolute maximum).  Take a breather.  Then, if you really can't help yourself, run again/put yourself forward again after a decent interval.  (The advantages of incumbency are massively overlooked in terms of position maintenance - if you can win re-election you're borderline competent.  If you can win re-election after you haven't held a position for 6 RL months, that's a different thing).  As open as you think you are to new ideas, as flexible and inclusive and non-cliquish as you believe yourself to be, it is an immutable law of human nature that you will have accumulated your biases, your traditions, your pool of advice, your go-to strategies.  You'll be blind to novelty in ways you can't even recognize.

    And this is before you even get into many of the great points @Keorin makes.

    If you are in the amazingly fortunate position of having been an org leader for 40/50 years, do yourself a favour.  Do your org a favour - take a breather.  I'd even be in favour of the divine mandating it.  It's not healthy.  (The removal of those 100 year honours lines was a great move, for example).

    Shirszae
  • HataruHataru Midwest USAPosts: 363Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Melodie said:
    Kyrra said:
    Tysandr said:
    The utility of a thread like this approaches

    0


    You can take the people out of Cyrene, but you cannot take the Cyrene out of people.
    I don’t know about that. I’d like to think Kyrra’s done really well since moving to Ashtan from Cyrene.
    Yeah, have you looked at HELP MHALDOR, lately? There are a ton of people who were previous Cyrenians for a stretch of time. Some longer than others for sure, but all the same. We laugh about it on a weekly basis.
    Shhhhhh shhhhhhh








    Mel we don't talk about that around the children.

    MelodieXias
  • AlyxeriAlyxeri Posts: 142Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Generalising an entire group of people, is what's not okay. That goes for anything, really.

    Being one doesn't give you any more right to do that.
    HataruAralayaTruax
  • PrythePrythe Posts: 416Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Alyxeri said:
    Generalising an entire group of people, is what's not okay. That goes for anything, really.

    Being one doesn't give you any more right to do that.
    LOL.

    Okay. 

    (I was fighting for queer rights before most Achaeans were born, I'll take the heat for this and just continue to giggle. Heck, I'll even make it a topic at our next CR group -where we vote on what to discuss in a very orderly fashion- and get back to you with the consensus.)

    Want a chocolate? :) 

    - To love another person is to see the face of G/d
    - Let me get my hat and my knife
    - It's your apple, take a bite
    - Don't dream it ... be it


  • AlyxeriAlyxeri Posts: 142Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Because being condescending when you're called out, definitely means you're correct. Not that I'm entirely surprised, at this point.

    Am I doing this right?

    HataruAralayaDarkenstar
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna bePosts: 3,245Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Melodie said:
    Man, Aluine is still allowed to sit at CC in Cyrene and talk shit after the aforementioned incident? Christ above.
    I'm like three pages behind, catching up on this thread, but I wanted to go ahead and point out that she's been a hairs breadth away from becoming Blu chow on several occasions.
    Huh. Neat.
  • MelodieMelodie MhaldorPosts: 4,531Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 13
    Pfffff.


    "You have had an extraordinary adventure, my dear. Extraordinary! One that few people could ever imagine. Treasure it. Keep it safe and secure, tucked away in some special place in your heart. 

    But... don't spend the rest of your days chasing a ghost."
    AhmetDarkenstar
  • ChubbsChubbs Posts: 21Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Melodie said:
    Pfffff.


    Man, I love that sound clip so much.
  • DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,005Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Who cares about Cities now that we want the biggest release ever! 
    Hataru
  • CaelanCaelan Posts: 662Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Cities suck.  Villages is where it's at.

    RangorZenii
  • PrythePrythe Posts: 416Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited October 14
    Alyxeri said:
    Because being condescending when you're called out, definitely means you're correct. Not that I'm entirely surprised, at this point.

    Am I doing this right?

    Just factual, darlin'

    Now this was condescending. HTH!



    - To love another person is to see the face of G/d
    - Let me get my hat and my knife
    - It's your apple, take a bite
    - Don't dream it ... be it


  • AlyxeriAlyxeri Posts: 142Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    They were both condescending; you're not really doing yourself any favours.
  • AntidasAntidas Posts: 1,295Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Alyxeri said:
    They were both condescending; you're not really doing yourself any favours.
    Neither of you, you guys (both of you) are both being stupidly passive aggressive. How about you take it to personal messages if you want to keep arguing about this, because I promise you, no one else here really cares.

    ShirszaeAldwic
  • PrythePrythe Posts: 416Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited October 14
    eta: Deleted because giving wrong impression.

    - To love another person is to see the face of G/d
    - Let me get my hat and my knife
    - It's your apple, take a bite
    - Don't dream it ... be it


  • IllarionIllarion Posts: 43Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Verrucht said:
    This thread is amazing.


    I logged in for a bit.  Honest question.  Do you think it is healthy for the game/an org:

    • to have org leaders be in situ for > 100 IC years
    • for a city council of five to be comprised of two married couples and one of the longest serving city leaders in the game?

    I'm genuinely interested in your views.  Full disclosure, I've never had a character in Cyrene.  Never really been close to anyone OOC or IC with a prominent Cyrenian character, don't know any of the people criticizing or defending the current situation.  Just interested.

  • KietKiet Posts: 1,998Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 16
    It's obviously unhealthy if you want a democracy. I see no evidence that Cyrene (or its leaders) want an actual democracy. In fact, given the state of Achaean democracies, I'd be surprised if anyone actually believes democracies are good for the cities.
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaPosts: 6,169Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 16
    The main issue with leaders holding incredibly long tenures is that it's fucking boring for everybody else.

    Stability is heinously bland and uninteresting, part of the hustle and gusto of a vibrant community with leadership paradigms involved is the variance that multiple leaders offer. I don't think there's anything wrong with holding a reasonable tenure in a leader type position, but if you're in there for anything approaching IRL years (or a year even), you need to not be. 

    Let other people have a go. Get other people involved. The excuse of "well they could get involved if they wanted to" doesn't really fly, because there's always people that want to, but don't feel comfortable at being perceived as a destabilizer or someone shaking the status quo up to get involved in the first place. The faction's best interests may be in a stable, consistent leader, but it isn't in the game's best interest to have every faction run with little variance and only a handful of personalities dominating the decision-making spheres.

    Verrucht is good at what he does, which is probably why he's still around. I think that personally, it's well past the point where he should've stepped aside and let someone else have a shot at it, though. I don't really care if families run cities, at least the actual position-holder has some chance to exert their own personal touch to the role that way.
    :pleased::pleased:
    ShirszaeKeorin
  • KietKiet Posts: 1,998Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    What exactly needs to be 'shaken up' about Cyrene, though? We both know that Cyrene changing is the least likely thing possible in the game. You could place literally anyone as Imperiate and it'll make absolutely no difference to Cyrene's direction.

    Cyrene only needs leaders to keep them running smoothly, and for that it hardly matters how long someone's been there.
    Telendrieth
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaPosts: 6,169Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The political scene could do with some tumult, if nothing else. I'm sure there's people in Cyrene that would enjoy a change of pace in that regard.
    :pleased::pleased:
  • MathildaMathilda Posts: 500Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    That might not be good for the game as a whole, though. As has been touched upon before in this thread, Cyrene has a tendency to shut out conflict (even though it isn't an "official policy"). This forms a bubble around Cyrene and its players, and increasingly it is as if Cyrene is a separate game from Achaea that just happens to share the same world.
     <3 
  • TelendriethTelendrieth Posts: 105Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Slowly Mathilda is encroaching on the truth. Cyrene is really converting Achaea into Stardew Valley one player at a time. You guys just never knew you were playing the role of Joja mart. 

    On a serious note though, sometimes there are legitimate roleplay reasons for orgs to nor participate. I think I've made it clear my stance on ooc shutdown and refusing interaction is a bad thing, so I'm not really talking about that. But a good example of this scenario would be the whole undead civil war event. With the way it was presented to the players, why the hell would many of the factions willingly support a generally nefarious undead faction demanding support. As a player I definitely see "Ooh, event! Lets roll!" but as a character I was far more tempted to go "Yo.. these undead are pretty shitty. This sounds like the perfect time for team blue to put aside some differences and wipe out some undead vermin."

    To push the only real good RP reasoning at the time, Telen tried to spin it as attempting to influence the lesser of evils into power so as to put the living in a better position, but that specific faction was claimed almost instantly. Since the general nature of the event, that kinda left us borked until the admin made some changes. 
    FrederichAldwicMathilda
145791015
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