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Nonstandard spelling to evoke mispronunciation, etc.

KuruKuru Posts: 15Member
edited September 14 in The Scarlattan Theatre
Huck Finn was written by Mark Twain (yes, that's a pen name, but that's got nothing to do with this) using nonstandard grammar consistently throughout, to evoke more clearly the first-person image of an undereducated writer, the teen title character. The book got a LOT of negative criticism in its time for this.

Today, we have 'standard nonstandard' usages, including but not limited to the Scottish accent preferred by @Faur, the dentalised lisp I keep getting into trouble for (Some words, dey hard to say wif my mouf.)* and of course, things like Jaeger-speak.

Here's a recent panel of a webcomic that illustrates that one:

.

I'm tired of relying on people telling me privately, 'This is good!' or 'This is bad, we don't want it here.' Both of those are valid views, my problem is that I don't know which one speaks for most of us.

This poll is anonymous.

*I keep getting pressured into not using it. Sometimes I cave.
Some words, dey hard to say wif my mouf.

Nonstandard spelling to evoke mispronunciation, etc. 39 votes

Don't do it because whatever it gives to RP, it takes away more than that by annoying me, the voter on your poll.
28% 11 votes
Do it or don't, either way is fine by me.
61% 24 votes
Neither of the above is how it is, and I will explain in a comment to this poll.
10% 4 votes
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Comments

  • ShirszaeShirszae Caer WitrinPosts: 2,827Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 14
    You should do what you enjoy. Just be prepared for people to avoid interacting with you if you do something they in turn don't enjoy or strongly dislike themselves.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...

    image

    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    KuruVenmara
  • KuruKuru Posts: 15Member
    edited September 14
    If you just want to see how everyone else voted, please vote option 3. I have already made the comment you were going to leave; you're reading it right now:

    "I just wanted to see how everyone else voted."
    Some words, dey hard to say wif my mouf.
  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaPosts: 2,267Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    What you absolutely should NOT do, is stutter on tells/channels.

    Channels are telepathic. What are you, having a stroke?

    I literally want to strangle those people.
    (Mhaldor): Herenicus says, "Apologies, I am in-and-out of hold with Verizon wireless customer service."
    TrillianaMorthif
  • ShirszaeShirszae Caer WitrinPosts: 2,827Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Krypton said:
    What you absolutely should NOT do, is stutter on tells/channels.

    Channels are telepathic. What are you, having a stroke?

    I literally want to strangle those people.
    Maybe they get so nervous they have mini-strokes every time they speak ;O

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...

    image

    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • ReysonReyson Posts: 282Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I mean, unless you tag the specific people who've commented on what you do, you won't really adress the criticism issue. 

    If you just want to talk about accents, though, I have a twofold issue with them.

    The first is that accents are a perfectly acceptable way to convey these changes without spelling everything out phonetically. Obviously it gets a bit tricky, because you can't just set your accent to 'Cockney,' but there's enough leeway to make it a useful tool.

    The other issue I have is consistency. Accents audible over telepathic channels are odd, and people definitely drop the accent in high stress situations and such. Not that it's a huge deal, but nothing builds character like consistency; if you slip in and out of the phonetic style writing, then you just come off as wanting attention, for the most part. An accent does not an interesting person make.
    KuruLaedha
  • SenaSena Posts: 3,849Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 14
    Reyson said:
    Accents audible over telepathic channels are odd
    I don't think it's odd. When people think in words, they almost always use the same accent they would when talking. And channels are still telepathic transmission of "spoken" language, it's not like they transmit ideas directly, or visions of written text.

    Physical problems like lisps and stuttering might be weird, though.
    ShirszaeAustereKuruSirrion
  • KayeilKayeil Washington StatePosts: 2,711Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I pretty much agree with Reyson about the voice/accents covering this enough.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • NazihkNazihk Posts: 779Member @ - Epic Achaean
    It is fine in moderation. 

    'Some words, dey hard to say wif my mouf': Fine, whatever.

    'Y'guild willnae support y'actions lest y'slip an' find y'self suddenly in over y'head.' : Fuck you, get out.
    HalosAldwicKuruTysandr
  • ReysonReyson Posts: 282Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Sena said:
    Reyson said:
    Accents audible over telepathic channels are odd
    I don't think it's odd. When people think in words, they almost always use the same accent they would when talking. And channels are still telepathic transmission of "spoken" language, it's not like they transmit ideas directly, or visions of written text.

    Physical problems like lisps and stuttering might be weird, though.
    I'm not saying it's right, or wrong, just that it's odd. You have to go into whether what a person hears is what the 'speaker' is projecting/means to sound like, or whether there's a reception to it based on the receiver of the communication, like with sound, and it just gets a little messy. Some people definitely think they sound different than they do (which is why a lot of people are a bit surprised as to how they sound when they've been recorded). Like I said, odd! 
    Kuru
  • SolnirSolnir Posts: 426Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    90% of the time, type how you want to sound.

    The other 10% becomes an issue when I have trouble, as a player, comprehending what you're trying to say because you're using SO MUCH nonstandard stuff. Nazihk hit on this a bit a couple posts above me, but if it is practically illegible to me as a player, I'm going to be a bit annoyed.

    Kuru
  • SayennaSayenna Posts: 188Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Nazihk said:
    It is fine in moderation. 

    'Some words, dey hard to say wif my mouf': Fine, whatever.

    'Y'guild willnae support y'actions lest y'slip an' find y'self suddenly in over y'head.' : Fuck you, get out.
    I pretty much agree entirely with this.

    Also with Krypton; people who stutter over market / tells / HT etc, I want to kill them over and over again.

    Even more annoying are the ones who can't actually consistently do whatever they're supposedly RPing, and jump between having an accent, and suddenly talking normally.
    Kuru
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaPosts: 6,276Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I've always taken telepathic channels to transmit directly from the phonological loop in the brain, which is where your sensation of "thinking in words" originates from. Accent and whatnot carry across to that 'inside' voice as well, so it makes sense for them to be a thing.
    Kuru
  • KietKiet Posts: 2,215Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The real debate is whether emoji work over telepathy
  • FaurFaur Posts: 149Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Damn, son. It's been YEARS since I RP'd a more "Achaean" approach. It got to be too much work. But, thank you for remembering it! (Even though your character's only 18!)
    Kuru
  • HalosHalos San FranciscoPosts: 1,432Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Nazihk said:
    It is fine in moderation. 

    'Some words, dey hard to say wif my mouf': Fine, whatever.

    'Y'guild willnae support y'actions lest y'slip an' find y'self suddenly in over y'head.' : Fuck you, get out.

    Kuru
  • XadenXaden Posts: 2,138Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If you make me work to understand you then I want absolutely nothing to do with you. 
    AldwicKyrraAhmetKuru
  • SenaSena Posts: 3,849Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Reyson said:
    I'm not saying it's right, or wrong, just that it's odd. You have to go into whether what a person hears is what the 'speaker' is projecting/means to sound like, or whether there's a reception to it based on the receiver of the communication, like with sound, and it just gets a little messy. Some people definitely think they sound different than they do (which is why a lot of people are a bit surprised as to how they sound when they've been recorded). Like I said, odd! 
    Given that you're explicitly able to hear tone over channels (expressiveness and ending emoticons), I'd say it would be odd if you didn't hear accents as well.
    Kuru
  • KuruKuru Posts: 15Member
    Faur said:
    Damn, son. It's been YEARS since I RP'd a more "Achaean" approach. It got to be too much work. But, thank you for remembering it! (Even though your character's only 18!)
    First that sprang to mind. Possibly because you caught me having popped in to give a friend (and citymate of yours) an interaction meant to help that person figure some stuff out. I think it worked.
    Some words, dey hard to say wif my mouf.
  • KuruKuru Posts: 15Member
    Xaden said:
    If you make me work to understand you then I want absolutely nothing to do with you. 
    You always have to work to understand other people. It's just not usually so simple as that they speak differently.
    Some words, dey hard to say wif my mouf.
  • XadenXaden Posts: 2,138Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kuru said:
    Xaden said:
    If you make me work to understand you then I want absolutely nothing to do with you. 
    You always have to work to understand other people. It's just not usually so simple as that they speak differently.
    I also mean people who talk in riddles. Or talk utter bullshit.
    Kuru
  • KuruKuru Posts: 15Member
    edited September 15
    Xaden said:
    Kuru said:
    Xaden said:
    If you make me work to understand you then I want absolutely nothing to do with you. 
    You always have to work to understand other people. It's just not usually so simple as that they speak differently.
    I also mean people who talk in riddles. Or talk utter bullshit.
    See, that confuses me. If I have no idea what you mean by 'talk in riddles,' is that a riddle? And 'utter bullshit' is... what, lies? Fine if that is, but then why didn't you just say lies? I have to work to understand you.
    Some words, dey hard to say wif my mouf.
  • SolnirSolnir Posts: 426Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Your signature and forum pic make me discredit everything you say.
    TukioHalos
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna bePosts: 3,343Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I talk in riddles and talk utter bullshit. But only when strangers send me a tell expecting me to tell them things they don't know.
    Huh. Neat.
  • HellenHellen Posts: 163Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Don't particularly mind it, but at the end of the day it's a text medium. It shouldn't be like reading Old English or anything!
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna bePosts: 3,343Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Oh, and re: the thread's actual topic.

    On behalf of anyone using screenreaders or text to speech in Achaea, kindly fuck off with this nonsense. Kthxbai.
    Huh. Neat.
    Kuru
  • KuruKuru Posts: 15Member
    Solnir said:
    Your signature and forum pic make me discredit everything you say.
    Fine. I was image-searching the 1980s troll dolls for a good forum image, but I found this instead. It made me laugh, so...

    But yeah, it's getting old.
    Some words, dey hard to say wif my mouf.
  • KuruKuru Posts: 15Member
    Ahmet said:
    Oh, and re: the thread's actual topic.

    On behalf of anyone using screenreaders or text to speech in Achaea, kindly fuck off with this nonsense. Kthxbai.
    This is a really good point, and one I had not considered! Thank you!
    Some words, dey hard to say wif my mouf.
    Ahmet
  • LaedhaLaedha Posts: 56Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I agree that the the accent system covers this but if you really want to go for a certain verbal effect that's hard to cover with an accent, I think less is more.  "Some words, dey hard to say wif dis mouf" seems like overdoing it. For me, it's a little hard/slow to read. You could get a similar effect with,"Some words are hard fer me ta say" or "Sometimes my mouf makes a mess o' some words." Like one or two nonstandard words in each say, just enough so people can hear the effect you're going for. Just my opinion. 


    Aereidhna
  • KuruKuru Posts: 15Member
    Laedha said:
    I agree that the the accent system covers this but if you really want to go for a certain verbal effect that's hard to cover with an accent, I think less is more.  "Some words, dey hard to say wif dis mouf" seems like overdoing it. For me, it's a little hard/slow to read. You could get a similar effect with,"Some words are hard fer me ta say" or "Sometimes my mouf makes a mess o' some words." Like one or two nonstandard words in each say, just enough so people can hear the effect you're going for. Just my opinion. 


    In point of fact, there are holes in the accent system where this is concerned. For starters, I literally cannot find a way to make Kuru talk with a dentalised lisp using it. SET VOICE dentalised-lispy? SET ACCENT overbitey? SET LISP dentalised, does not exist. SAY *with *a *dentalised *lisp hmm gets me this:

    You say with, "*a *dentalised *lisp hmm."

    Meanwhile, I saw a newbie channel comment about city accents, and how while SET ACCENT MHALDORIAN is not only possible, but done, there's no real communication of what that sounds like. This is easy to fix. All we need is something like HELP CITYACCENTS to give some general guidelines. It's about the same importance as having scrolls on the various races as guidelines for people to use when creating their personal descriptions, and we have those.

    There's been forum discussions on that, and that's not really the topic of this post, but it's sort of relevant, so thank you for making me think of it.

    Your statement would be completely true if SET LISP were a thing, even as an alternative to voice or accent. A way to have a voice or accent *and* a lisp, would be ideal. But I figure it's less work for them to make it an option alongside voice and accent, than something independent of that.
    Some words, dey hard to say wif my mouf.
    Shirszae
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna bePosts: 3,343Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 18
    SET VOICE lisping? Sibilant?

    EDIT: Sibilant might not be exactly what youre looking for, but comes close. A lisping voice isnt the best flow for it, but works to get fhe point across.

    EDIT2: Could have LISP as a speech command alongside all the rest.
    Huh. Neat.
    Kuru
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