Welcome to the Achaea Forums! Please be sure to read the Forum Rules.

Most Effective 1v1 Unartied Single/Dual Trans PVP Class

RafaRafa Posts: 19Member
Hello!

I've been reading the forums to pick a class, and I know that besides in-game hunting I won't be able to make any purchases within Achaea. PvP is my favorite, but I wasn't sure if I'd be able to compete with every class equally.

From what I've read, Alchemist, Depthswalker, Blademaster, and Shaman are great classes without artifacts? If you had to say, which class, with ingenuity, creativity, and perseverance, has the best 1v1 dueling with the least requirement of lessons and no artifacts? I'm not necessarily concerned about utility, and I understand that some matchups may be difficult. But I am nearly level 50, and I'd really love to know what you guys think before I embrace class as a Shaman!!

Thanks!
«1

Comments

  • AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 3,904Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Depthswalker


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    RafaAntidas
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna bePosts: 3,244Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Atalkez said:
    Depthswalker

    Huh. Neat.
    Rafa
  • RafaRafa Posts: 19Member
    Awesome!

    I wasn't able to understand the class strategy or harmony from reading the skill descriptions on the Wiki - it seems like they kill by running people out of mana? And they can do it with only one skillset? :)
  • AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 3,904Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 9
    You have five trees of afflictions, that stairstep into the capstone if the affliction isn't cured before you hit again. 
    Hit - 2 affs
    eat/tree 0 affs
    hit - 2 affs
    eat/eat 0 affs
    hit - 2 affs
    eat - 1 aff
    hit 3 affs, +1 progression

    you will use them to build into either lock, damage kill, or mana kill. Have an insta, but doesn't really matter for your combat too much.

    Venom/Instill, with a few limitations. Can't do paralysis/depression etc.

    Then you also have Loop, which you use in place of the venom. High priority affliction, and if present when you strike, makes your instill do +2 instead of +1.

    Can also use boost loop to instantly get +2, but requires under an Age (class resource) limit to use right.

    General idea of the class, gotta test to figure the rest out!


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    Rafa
  • MakariosMakarios Posts: 1,440Administrator Achaean staff
    Loop isn't in the primary skill - its pretty high up in Aeonics. You will definitely be strong single trans, but loop is a pretty major thing not to have.
    RafaSolnir
  • CaliraCalira Posts: 281Member, Secret Squirrel ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Alchemist is a strong candidate for a dual-trans class that needs no artifacts, as being able to go pure con spec will help compensate for the lack of defensive arties
    RafaHunter
  • FarrahFarrah Posts: 1,357Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Shaman, Alchemist, and Depthswalker are all pretty capable without artefacts. Lesson investment is probably highest for shaman of the three.

    Love Depthswalker. And Alchemist. :(

    Rafa
  • NazihkNazihk Posts: 664Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    On the less afflictiony side, I feel like DWB Infernal would also be a fairly strong contender.
    Rafa
  • TeshaTesha Posts: 2,761Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Magi. Just get retardation and you're good.

     i'm a rebel

    RafaTysandrTorinn
  • RafaRafa Posts: 19Member
    Very awesome!

    Thanks guys! Maybe the Blademaster suggestion was from an older thread. It sounds like Depthswalker, Alchemist, and Shaman are all capable.  I think hunting for gold, from what I've heard, is very effective, but not quite as fast for getting all skills trans'd, plus survival or avoidance if necessary, an artefact weapon and SoA. I'm willing to work extra hard and have to come up with creative solutions if it doesn't mean I'm dependent on artefacts to succeed, so this has been really encouraging! I also hope that others can find this thread and know that they don't have to be rich to play.

    @Atalkez - thanks especially for taking the time to explain the skills better. I'm leaning towards Depthswalker, because it really does sound like a fun class for roleplay AND combat.

    @Makarios - thanks for clarifying that - I do see that Loop is kind of far down! It looks like it's not reasonably far for someone motivated to hunt for credits, which is cool! :)

    @Calira - Would you be able to explain the kill paths a little bit? I've read the descriptions and the 2016-era threads to try and understand, but it doesn't look like the Alchemist forum has a lot of dedicated combat information, and it seems awfully complex, with different people expressing different strategies.

    @Farrah - Interesting! I really didn't know that about Shaman lesson requirements. From what I've read, curses can't give a key affliction for a lock or hinder someone long enough to stay around, so Spiritlore is necessary. Is Vodun necessary, outside of hindering, to lock?
  • RafaRafa Posts: 19Member
    @Nazihk - I looked at the Infernal forum, but it was very spartan in information, and I wasn't sure if the "Venom combinations and overall Knight Combat Techniques" from 2013 was still accurate.

    @Tesha - Magi is definitely the class I was most interested in, but the credit investment is holding me back. It looks like I need a diadem, House crystal (not exactly sure how this works), and a ton of lessons for class skills (alongside survival). Also, I'm not 100% sure I understand the theory behind the burn mechanic or retardation combat, but I did find a few useful quotes from the Magi forums. Do you think a Magi can 1v1 with 1.5 Trans'd skills and no artefacts? :) 
  • CaliraCalira Posts: 281Member, Secret Squirrel ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited September 10
    @Rafa
    Alchemists are a pure momentum class that has powerful lock options as well as aff overload options. Alchemists have full access to every lock affliction and can deliver them at a moderate speed, but alongside the afflictions they also give tempers, which are stacking afflictions that they can later spend for various effects. Such effects include a burst of hindering or locking afflictions, a huge amount of damage that will basically guarantee a death against anyone without Vitality, a large burst of mana damage, and a large amount of bleeding. You can also turn people into golden statues after locking them or after bursting down both mana and health to lower than 60% using tempers, which is pretty swell
    Rafa
  • RafaRafa Posts: 19Member
    That. was awesome.

    Thanks @Calira. Affliction bursts sound awesome. Or terrifying. I guess depends on which side you're on. Do you think dual-trans (with some survival lessons as well) and constitution specialization would be competitive for learning and maybe getting to mid-tier combat? 
  • RafaRafa Posts: 19Member
    Also! I read about the Jester class, and it sounds like the amount of skills, utility, and creativity make it a dangerous class in skilled hands.

    It sounds like it might have a very high skill cap and steep learning curve, but I was wondering if this would be class I could duel with 1v1 unartied, with only one or two skills trans'd?
  • CaliraCalira Posts: 281Member, Secret Squirrel ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I would guess that an Alchemist could learn to fight and be dangerous with Mercury in Alchemy, Inundate in Physiology, and ideally Toxin in Formulation, though that last one is not strictly necessary. I'm also told that trans Alchemy would be a big boon as with it comes the aforementioned golden statues, and trans Formulation makes the skill a lot less cumbersome to use, as without it you need to prepare your phials ahead of time.

    Jester is a class that I have a significant amount of personal experience with and love dearly, and it is indeed a powerful and complex class 1v1. It needs trans Pranks and trans Puppetry and at least Aeon in Tarot, which is most of the way up the skill. Unfortunately, in my estimation it's by far the hardest class to learn and play well, and also extremely fragile without avoidance, miniskills and some defensive artifacts. If you have questions about how they operate, I'd be glad to elaborate more.
    Rafa
  • RafaRafa Posts: 19Member
    @Calira

    That would be amazing! I've read a lot about Jesters from the forums - and the skill cap and creativity sounds really appealing! I have more than a few questions, because I was 99% sure I was going to be a Jester from the beginning. People have remarked about their amazing contribution to group combat and their flexibility. If I hunt to level ~80 and specialized in constitution, would I still be too squishy?

    If I'm not too squishy for combat, at least at this point, I'd still like to know if I can put together an offense/defense without artefacts and credit packages? Can I get away without 2.5 Trans skills?

    What are the most common ways you win duels as a Jester, listed by frequency? So, lock with axes/puppetry - death tarot - jitb - damage? Salve lock? Aeon-lock (not sure what these are except terms used in other threads). 
  • SalisaSalisa Posts: 22Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Ahmet said:
    Atalkez said:
    Depthswalker


    Rafa
  • ArmaliArmali Posts: 739Member, Secret Squirrel ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Unfortunately, I think you'd be hard pressed to engage against a lot of moderately artifacted people without more than 2.5 trans skills. Stuff like Survival and Avoidance and even Riding are pretty vital once you hit the mid-tier of PK. And you'll definitely need lessons spent in Weaponry, Vision, and Tattoos to at least reach a certain baseline of not-frustration.
  • CaliraCalira Posts: 281Member, Secret Squirrel ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited September 10
    @Rafa

    Even with con spec, you will be fragile. The reason for this is that the Jester class is unique in its total lack of damage-mitigating defences, instead relying on tools like somersault and Tarot to escape, hinder and heal extra health and afflictions to stay alive. Unfortunately for Jester, physical damage classes will always be able to prone you, removing your ability to heal or hinder with Tarot, and knights in particular will punish somersault very hard with Engage.

    Unlike pretty much every other class, Jesters don't have a streamlined kill condition to progress towards, but instead have a plethora of tools of all different sorts that are up to you to figure out when and where to use them. The most powerful of these tools are found in Puppetry and gated behind fashioning, which takes a relatively long time to do and offers no upfront benefit whatsoever. Because of this, the Jester is required to have a very deep understanding of every aspect of Achaean combat both in order to actually kill someone and in order to evade their own demise long enough to enact their schemes. On the bright side, this makes the class very rewarding to play once you do start to master it, the sheer number of options that you have available means that you'll often find new tricks to improve or diversify with, and it can make you very unpredictable and difficult to defend against.

    My personal style of playing Jester is very slow. The majority of my time fighting is in pursuit of gaining around 40 fashions, and utilizing Hangedman, Fool, Priestess, shielding, rubble, icewalls, somersaulting and any other tool I need to to endure whatever my opponent throws at me. The reward for enduring this long is the puppet, which I use to disable my opponent and remove their ability to defend from the Aeon tarot and the subsequent lock. Other options that I'm fond of include commanding RESTORE and throwing Death while my opponent is unable to respond, spamming Puppet Bleed to the dismay of @Armali, and timing out of the arena because I botched my single attempt at a kill and don't have enough time for a second.
    RafaShirszaeDochitha
  • MindshellMindshell Posts: 164Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I'd agree with Nazihk here, dual blunt has the lowest cost of entry and is fully functional with single trans weaponmastery. If cost is your only concern it'll be the cheapest while theoretically being able to kill anyone. Most classes don't really come online until dual trans or most of the way there with additional utility opening up in the third.
    RafaTysandrDochitha
  • SalisaSalisa Posts: 22Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Mindshell said:
    I'd agree with Nazihk here, dual blunt has the lowest cost of entry and is fully functional with single trans weaponmastery. If cost is your only concern it'll be the cheapest while theoretically being able to kill anyone. Most classes don't really come online until dual trans or most of the way there with additional utility opening up in the third.
    I don't know, you can get a lot done as a DW with trans shadowmancy and up to loop in Aeonics. Granted, Terminus is helpful for certain situations.
  • RafaRafa Posts: 19Member
    Okay, this is why I'm really glad to hear everyone's advice.

    @Armali - I think I could swing 2x Trans and Trans survival with hunting if I get to Dragon, right?

    @Mindshell - Okay, for dual blunt, single-trans weaponmastery, what do you think between Paladin, Infernal, or Runewarden? :)

    @Calira - This sounds like absolutely the most fun class for patient combatants who want a deeply intuitive understanding of combat. Are people frustrated in spars when you have to hit-and-run during the fashions? And were you serious that you only have time for one setup/kill attempt during an arena spar? :)
  • CaliraCalira Posts: 281Member, Secret Squirrel ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited September 10
    Rafa said:
    Are people frustrated in spars when you have to hit-and-run during the fashions?
    Not everyone, but some people absolutely loathe the existance of this tactic, which is widely referred to as 'slow prep'. Same goes for the Jester class in general, really.
    Rafa said:
    And were you serious that you only have time for one setup/kill attempt during an arena spar? :)
    Absolutely. You have to throttle your fashion rate depending on the pressure you're under. Certain high-pressure classes like Alchemist and 2-handers demand near-constant defensive play, while other classes let you fashion near-constantly and are only really dangerous for brief, tense periods. Also depends largely on how competent your opponent is.

    I should stress that Jester is the last class that I would recommend someone try to learn to PK with unless they were really invested in it
    Rafa
  • RafaRafa Posts: 19Member
    Ouch. Thank you for your honesty at least, @Calira.

    It sounds like the potential is there, but perhaps my own inexperience would be the biggest obstacle to overcome in combat. I think the slow-prep classes wouldn't be my style, unfortunately. Magi is extremely interesting as well, but it seems like I'd need more lessons than I can reasonable obtain (Trans Elementalism, Crystalism, & Survival, @Tesha?)
  • CooperCooper IowaPosts: 4,033Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jester is not a class for new players, or those who will be limited in lessons and credits. I would highly suggest choosing a different class. 

    Rafa
  • KietKiet Posts: 1,975Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I personally wouldn't play shaman without tri-trans, there's too much power you're missing out on. Technically, you can just win with curses/spiritlore, though.
    Rafa
  • RafaRafa Posts: 19Member
    Thank you @Cooper. I think you and @Calira are right. :)

    It sounds like DWB, Alchemist, or Depthswalker are all capable single-trans classes?
  • RafaRafa Posts: 19Member
    edited September 10
    Kiet said:
    I personally wouldn't play shaman without tri-trans, there's too much power you're missing out on. Technically, you can just win with curses/spiritlore, though.
    Cool! @Kiet - I've been reading as much as I can, and it seems like curses has everything for a lock except slickness.

    It can be delivered with Maligus, right? CURSE <target> BLEED INVOKE COAGULATION SLICKNESS? <- Does this work against people with clotting, or is sticking haemophilia mandatory, first?


  • NazihkNazihk Posts: 664Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Rafa said:

    @Mindshell - Okay, for dual blunt, single-trans weaponmastery, what do you think between Paladin, Infernal, or Runewarden? :)
    If you can dual-trans, Infernal by a lot. DWB Infernal has two different limb damage kill paths that it can push simultaneously and people who focus on avoiding of one of them stand a good chance of walking into the other. However, one of the kill skills is at near-trans Necromancy.

    If you can only single-trans, Weaponmastery is Weaponmastery so just go with whatever floats your boat. I'd probably still suggest Infernal, though, since bashing and the no-brainer packs will easily get you dual trans and change.  Runewarden second choice, Paladin is last.

    Notably, Paladin is locked to Targossas and Infernal is locked to Mhaldor. If you don't want to be locked into a faction, Runewarden is the only knight choice for you. 

    PvP aside, Knights are also tanky as fuck and they're great at PvE, so leveling should be easy. 
  • KietKiet Posts: 1,975Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Rafa said:
    Kiet said:
    I personally wouldn't play shaman without tri-trans, there's too much power you're missing out on. Technically, you can just win with curses/spiritlore, though.
    Cool! @Kiet - I've been reading as much as I can, and it seems like curses has everything for a lock except slickness.

    It can be delivered with Maligus, right? CURSE <target> BLEED INVOKE COAGULATION SLICKNESS? <- Does this work against people with clotting, or is sticking haemophilia mandatory, first?


    Shaman has a few ways to deliver slickness, one of them is Maligus, the others rely on vodun. You 100% need to stick haemo, and Maligus won't always reliably work against everyone. Vodun, though, is still a huge part of a shaman's power and what stops someone from just walking out on you.
«1
Sign In to Comment.