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PvE Analysis

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  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormPosts: 2,519Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Antonius said:
    Klendathu said:
    Lucianus said:
    Didn't damage of Thoth's Fang got cut down to 20 damage? Wouldn't it be better to use something of comparable speed, but with more damage? Such as a soulpiercer?

    Only a bard can wield a song-blessed rapier. If a bard dragonforms whilst wielding their rapier, they do not automatically unwield it, but cannot reviled it either. Pretty sure artefact rapiers come pre-song-blessed now too...
    Not sure if rapiers come automatically songblessed now. If they do, scimitars have almost identical stats (I believe one more point of damage in exchange for one less point of speed), so that's also an option.

    Would be interesting to see how that compares to thoth's fang.
    No, you're right, I just checked in the artefact shop, rapiers are not pre-songblessed.

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
  • DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,003Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    If I remembered correctly, thoth fang's stat is irrelevant. It has it's own damage and speed hardcoded. I tested thoth vs rapier vs scimitar before, thoth doesn't seem to scale with stat and is quicker than both rapier and scimitar. But I will have to confirm this later. Will do a test and see if what I remembered is correct.
  • AntoniusAntonius Posts: 4,117Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I can't think of any possible reason you wouldn't think that might be a bug.
  • DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,003Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Dragonmonk, I only tested scimitar since it has close stats with rapier I didn't test the rapier, is good enough to show Thoth isn't acting normal (it has something hardcoded).

    Thoths (20/204/255): 3.24% p/s 
    Scimitar (64/180/245): 2.58% p/s

  • SenaSena Posts: 3,805Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 28
    Different weapons have had different damage formulae for a while now. Speed should still work the same across all weapons though, as should the strength bonus.

    So a hypothetical rapier with 20 damage wouldn't do the same damage as a Thoth's Fang with 20 damage, and a longsword with 20 damage would also be different from both of those, etc.
    Lucianus
  • MindshellMindshell Posts: 165Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I've only checked Scorpion stance for tekura currently since this is heavily time consuming.

    MONK
    Snapkick SNK (Scorpion)
    14.00% dmg, 2.25b (2.50)
    Moonkick MNK (Scorpion)
    15.50% dmg, 2.25b (2.50)
    Sidekick SDK (Scorpion)
    15.50% dmg, 2.25b (2.50)
    Whirlwind WWK (Scorpion)
    15.50% dmg, 2.39b (2.65)
    Axe AXK (Scorpion)
    15.50% dmg, 3.56b (3.95)
    Hammerfist HFP (Scorpion)
     7.75% dmg, 2.25b (2.50)
    Spear SPP (Scorpion)
     7.75% dmg, 2.25b (2.50)
    Hook HKP (Scorpion)
     5.75% dmg, 2.25b (2.50)
    Uppercut UCP (Scorpion)
     7.75% dmg, 2.25b (2.50)
    Optimum combo using MNK/SDK + HFP/SPP/UCP
    31.00% dmg, 2.25b (2.50), 13.78% p/s


    Thoth's fang (monk)
    28.50% dmg, 1.71b (1.90), 16.67% p/s


    Thrust (Tykonos)
    15.00% dmg, 2.70b (3.00)
    Risingkick (Tykonos)
    11.50% dmg, 2.07b (2.30)
    Optimum combo using Thrust + Risingkick
    41.50% dmg, 2.70b (3.00), 15.37% p/s

    Dart (Willow)
    10.50% dmg, 1.67b (1.85)
    Hiru (Willow)
    11.50% dmg, 1.85b (2.05)
    Hiraku (Willow)
    11.50% dmg, 1.85b (2.05)
    Flashheel (Willow)
    11.50% dmg, 1.85b (2.05)
    Optimum combo using Hiru/Hiraku + Flashheel
    34.50% dmg, 1.85b (2.05), 18.65% p/s

    Ruku (Rain)
    11.50% dmg, 2.07b (2.30)
    Kuro (Rain)
    11.50% dmg, 2.07b (2.30)
    Hiru (Rain)
    11.50% dmg, 2.07b (2.30)
    Frontkick (Rain)
    11.50% dmg, 2.07b (2.30)
    Optimum combo using Ruku/Kuro/Hiru + Frontkick
    34.50% dmg, 2.07b (2.30), 16.67% p/s

    Livestrike (Oak)
    11.50% dmg, 2.07b (2.30)
    Nervestrike (Oak)
    11.50% dmg, 2.07b (2.30)
    Ruku (Oak)
    11.50% dmg, 2.07b (2.30)
    Kuro (Oak)
    11.50% dmg, 2.07b (2.30)
    Risingkick (Oak)
    11.50% dmg, 2.07b (2.30)
    Optimum combo using Livestrike/Nervestrike/Ruku/Kuro + Risingkick
    34.50% dmg, 2.07b (2.30), 16.67% p/s

    Needle (Gaital)
    15.50% dmg, 2.75b (3.05)
    Ruku (Gaital)
    11.50% dmg, 2.07b (2.30)
    Kuro (Gaital)
    11.50% dmg, 2.07b (2.30)
    Spinkick (Gaital)
    20.00% dmg, 3.65b (4.05)
    Flashheel (Gaital)
    11.50% dmg, 2.07b (2.30)
    Optimum combo using Ruku/Kuro + Flashheel
    34.50% dmg, 2.07b (2.30), 16.67% p/s

    Ruku (Maelstrom)
    11.50% dmg, 2.07b (2.30)
    Livestrike (Maelstrom)
    11.50% dmg, 2.07b (2.30)
    Jinzuku (Maelstrom)
    11.50% dmg, 2.07b (2.30)
    Risingkick (Maelstrom)
    11.50% dmg, 2.07b (2.30)
    Optimum combo using Ruku/Livestrike/Jinzuku + Risingkick
    34.50% dmg, 2.07b (2.30), 16.67% p/s

    Optimum combo transition path 4 Willow, 2 Rain, 2 Oak
    276.00% dmg, 15.68b (17.40), 17.60% p/s
    DochithaLucianus
  • MindshellMindshell Posts: 165Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Also another general comment on my testing so far, the depthswalker data was performed using full the augment path in terminus. I haven't tested without yet to compare the variance.
  • MindshellMindshell Posts: 165Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Dalinor said:
    I've loaded a change which should normalize the dragon hunting damage with weapons like Fang, regardless of the profession held before switching to dragonform. 
    You're trying to keep me busy, I'll find something else to break for you.

    --
    For everyone else, how dragon hunting looks subsequent to these changes:

    DRAGON
    Gut
    46.00% dmg, 3.00b (3.00), 15.33% p/s
    Incantation
    53.00% dmg, 3.27e (3.85), 16.21% p/s
    Blast
    28.00% dmg, 3.40e (4.00),  8.24% p/s
    Thoth's fang
    29.50% dmg, 1.90b (1.90), 15.53% p/s
  • AnkhareoutefAnkhareoutef Posts: 273Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I'm interested to see how well gut and incantation scale with strength and intelligence if you're willing to test!
  • AegothAegoth Posts: 2,119Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    incant 4 lyf
    Ankhareoutef
  • MicaelisMicaelis Posts: 258Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I'm interested to see how well gut and incantation scale with strength and intelligence if you're willing to test!
    Incantation scales better with int than gut does with strength, as far as I can tell. At the low end (18/19) gut comes out on top, at the high end (Mindshell's 23) incant comes out on top.
  • MicaelisMicaelis Posts: 258Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    This one's for you @Sena, like, specifically.

    I'm debating the validity of these two situations, either objectively or subjectively or whatever, for serpent:

    Human: 14 dex/11 con. + sip gain, + crit hits 
    Rajamala: 15 dex/11 con.

    I have a level 2 lash, +1 dex artie, etc. 

    I'm specifically wondering if the increased DPS from a +1 dex with level 2 lash 'outweighs' the +crit/+sip bonus of human? I had heard that the +crit was a flat 1% increase on top, that doesn't scale with level. I have no idea about the +sip bonus. 

    Any help would be appreciated!


  • RyzethRyzeth Posts: 1,105Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    The "sip bonus" is only a chance to have a slightly higher sip and, from memory, it wasn't really noticeable.

    I'd say Rajamala, personally. Especially if you fight much, the dodge bonus stacks with avoidance/weaving, and is a great way to piss off weaponry users.
  • CooperCooper IowaPosts: 4,035Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The sip bonus is effectively a 1% bonus. It is a 10% chance to have a 10% higher sip.

  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna bePosts: 3,244Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The human crit chance is either about 2% or 4% dps increase for you (I forget if it's half a percent or one percent). That one point of dex will be just under 3% increase. I'd stick with the dex either way for bonus dodge + faster dstab + faster phase + other benefits.
    Huh. Neat.
  • SenaSena Posts: 3,805Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'd definitely take +1 dex over the human crit bonus for serpent.
    AhmetMorthif
  • MicaelisMicaelis Posts: 258Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Thanks for the input everyone!
  • AesgarAesgar Posts: 349Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Reyson said:
    The stat for SnB bashing is fucking depressing :D
    Not sure how I made it from 83 - 99 post SnB nerf :O
  • JonathinJonathin A deep pit of hunger and despairPosts: 3,156Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Aesgar said:
    Reyson said:
    The stat for SnB bashing is fucking depressing :D
    Not sure how I made it from 83 - 99 post SnB nerf :O
    I did it, too.

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  • SolnirSolnir Posts: 314Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Anyone have numbers on how int changes shaman dps? I was under the impression until recently that int didn't change damage at all, but learned otherwise.
  • SayennaSayenna Posts: 188Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited September 7
    Solnir said:
    Anyone have numbers on how int changes shaman dps? I was under the impression until recently that int didn't change damage at all, but learned otherwise.
    Int/collar doesn't change Shaman's PvP damage. Affects PvE the same as any other magic-based class.
  • SolnirSolnir Posts: 314Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Well, we're in the PvE Analysis thread. :tongue:
    But, to clarify, how does int change bashing for shaman. I don't know the numbers on any "other magic-based class".
    I assume it's similar to str in that it starts diminishing returns at 12, but other than that I'm at a loss.
  • SenaSena Posts: 3,805Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 7
    Str/int affect nearly every class's bashing in nearly the same way, they mostly all use a standard formula. Notable exceptions are serpents (who get a speed boost from dex instead of a damage boost) and dragons (whose diminishing returns start from a base of 18 instead of 12). Other than that, some classes get a slightly higher or lower benefit (like a 21% boost versus 24%) from their offensive stat, but the effect and scaling is pretty much the same.

    As for the specific details of that formula (like how much of a bonus you can expect with X points in a stat), I don't have any up to date information, except maybe for dragons.
  • SobriquetSobriquet Posts: 1,546Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    That's interesting. I was told by someone rather knowledgeable that getting strength gauntlets wouldn't increase my hunting damage. 
    image
  • SenaSena Posts: 3,805Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 7
    As a runewarden? I'm 99% sure that strength benefits every knight spec. Possibly far less effective than other options, like artefact weapons, but still an increase.

    Edit: There have been bugs in the past that made bashing attacks ignore stat bonuses, though.
  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaPosts: 2,055Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Serpent weapon damage doesn't scale with Strength whatsoever?
    (Mhaldor): Herenicus says, "Apologies, I am in-and-out of hold with Verizon wireless customer service."
  • SenaSena Posts: 3,805Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Krypton said:
    Serpent weapon damage doesn't scale with Strength whatsoever?
    Garrote doesn't and never has (at least for as long as I've played a serpent; I think 2006). If you count jabbing with a Thoth's Fang as "serpent weapon damage", strength does matter for that.

    Even in PvP, I think the only thing affected by strength is backstab.
  • SayennaSayenna Posts: 188Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited September 7
    Serpent damage scales with dexterity, aside from backstab which scales with strength.

    Dunno what (if anything) Camus scales with.
  • SenaSena Posts: 3,805Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 7
    Dexterity does not affect serpent damage, only speed. And for garrote, it only affects speed against denizens, not adventurers.

    I think camus and sumac scale with venom skill now, but I'm not 100% sure on that. Other than that and Silver Fangs (and universal bonuses like Ethian empowerment), they don't scale with anything.
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