Welcome to the Achaea Forums! Please be sure to read the Forum Rules.

A thought on fantasy racism

GwynriiGwynrii Posts: 22Member
edited April 3 in The Scarlattan Theatre
So, I was thinking about the state of racial roleplaying in Achaea, more specifically, the conflict side of it. The general opinion I have heard seem to be that because of rebirth, race is kind of meaningless. But if you think about it, wouldn't that validate racism more? The other races are clearly inferior, and you can't even say that they couldn't help it. They could always choose to become your character's race.

I think this would also make sense in some factions. We no longer have autoclass, but some classes still seem to associate with a certain House. For example, a militaristic House could discriminate against non-Rajamalans, because Rajamalas are PvP gods or whatever.

The fact that race can be changed relatively easily could also mean that some cities could ban an entire species from being their citizens, as well. We already ban classes anyways, why not ban those filty elves/midgets/trolls/etc.?
«1

Comments

  • JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,119Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 3
    If race wasn't so flexible and fluid, racism would be a much easier in-game viewpoint to enforce. On what basis do you decide to dislike someone: they're currently a certain race, that they've been a certain race in the past, that they associate with people of a certain race, their parents are a race or were a race at some point? How do you keep track?

    I would support making it more difficult to switch between races with how we essentially have stat packs for every race. You can be whatever you want and still achieve relative optimisation for whatever class/playstyle you decide upon. 
    Telinus
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna bePosts: 3,248Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Racism is present in Achaea the same way it is in real life. Every once in a while you have that one asshat who's just 100% against a certain race or something, but most racism is much more subtle and takes different forms. People who underestimate the intelligence of trolls. Dwarves who don't trust non-dwarves. People feeling physically nauseous (both IC and behind the keyboard) when a rajamala (or even worse, a siren) starts meowing audibly. Someone who expects sirens to be super over-sexed stereotypes, or who is surprised when someone makes a short joke about a dwarf.

    Then again, down with the greenskins! Burn them all!
    Huh. Neat.
    TrillianaJayden
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,119Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ahmet said:
    Racism is present in Achaea the same way it is in real life. Every once in a while you have that one asshat who's just 100% against a certain race or something, but most racism is much more subtle and takes different forms. People who underestimate the intelligence of trolls. Dwarves who don't trust non-dwarves. People feeling physically nauseous (both IC and behind the keyboard) when a rajamala (or even worse, a siren) starts meowing audibly. Someone who expects sirens to be super over-sexed stereotypes, or who is surprised when someone makes a short joke about a dwarf.

    Then again, down with the greenskins! Burn them all!
    People don't change their race in real life frequently and with ease, it makes racism in Achaea a lot more hollow (imo) and much harder to maintain consistency with. It would be even more superficial than it is in real life.
  • NazihkNazihk Posts: 670Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Dwarves are a garbage race and I think less of anybody who plays them. Especially @Mathilda
    Bann
  • DurianDurian Posts: 108Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    To be fair you hate everything Nazihk.
  • RangorRangor Posts: 2,858Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Straight up racism would not work in a city environment in achaea. But you can have like tsol'aa being unkind to other races visiting their village, or tsol'dasi seeing the other races as lesser beings.
    image
  • FrederichFrederich Posts: 1,241Member @ - Epic Achaean
    @Rangor

    Watch me make it work--
  • KezKez Posts: 646Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I don't see how racism is lacking in Achaea unless you're looking to go around setting trolls on fire for being trolls. There are more racial clans than there are races in Achaea, and if that's not enough, they have clan summaries to tell the world why they are the master race.

    Some of them are even self-hating:
    First two sentences of the kots clan of sirens: We, the Keepers of the Song, are devoted to the advancement and evolution of the Siren race. Long ago, our ancestors were punished with the curse of seduction and beguile.
    Gom appears to be a clan for mhuns stating that they need to change from their old isolationist ways.
  • AsmodronAsmodron Posts: 2,042Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    That...is definitely not racism. The clans are if anything glorified clubs...
    Jovolo
  • AsmodronAsmodron Posts: 2,042Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    As per racism in the world of Achaea. Per lore, pre-seleucar, Sapience was a very racist place per humans. Humans dominated the landscape and would look down and treat unfairly all non-human races. They had very little involvement in things. It wasnt until Nicator came that inclusion began, and it was actually a strategic winning point for him, as he gained the trust of all these other races.


    Racism outside the cities could work, as we see in Moghedu and the Aalen and even the Vertani, but in the cities? There is only 1 case and even that is diluted (Mhuns in Mhaldor). It simply cannot work as per the current setup. Our cities are warring states (except Cyrene) and numbers are a big deal. They seek to gain membership, not turn it away, and trying to exclude a race would do just that.


    On another note, other than Mhun in Mhaldor, I cannot think of another race that would have reason to be discriminated or rejected in the cities. Satyr for being cloven foot? Not really. Trolls for eating children? There's a longshot. It would take some pretty massive changes and/or additions to the story to make some relevant racial hatreds.
  • KezKez Posts: 646Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    How the hell does racism not involve clubs? Is racism code for something else here?
  • SarathaiSarathai Posts: 2,139Member
    Ahmet said:
    Someone who expects sirens to be super over-sexed stereotypes...
    In all fairness, while there are some who aren't, by far the majority of them tend in a particular direction.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • NicolaNicola Posts: 550Administrator Achaean staff
    Racism is mostly prevalent in the orders, encouraged by Gods and their various actions involving various races. Babel and by proxy his Order has a problem with the rajamalan race, Lorielan has a hatred for humans and enjoys making them pay for it in various eternal fashions of torture.
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,119Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Nicola said:
    Racism is mostly prevalent in the orders, encouraged by Gods and their various actions involving various races. Babel and by proxy his Order has a problem with the rajamalan race, Lorielan has a hatred for humans and enjoys making them pay for it in various eternal fashions of torture.
    In practical terms though, how can this racism be enforced in Achaea when race is such a transient concept that can change regularly and on a whim? That was my main argument here. Someone can be a human one week, a Tsol'aa the next and a rajamala shortly after. It's a lot easier to enact racism against NPCs whose races are tend to be tantamount to their identity but against adventurers, I'm not sure how it's feasible. 
  • AsmodronAsmodron Posts: 2,042Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Babel has an issue with Raja? News to me. Hmm

    *Proceeds to keep an eye on every Babel member for fur*
  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaPosts: 2,078Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Asmodron said:
    Babel has an issue with Raja? News to me. Hmm

    *Proceeds to keep an eye on every Babel member for fur*
    The Rajamalan royal lineage protected the crystals created by Agatheis that kept Babel sealed under Great Rock.
    (Mhaldor): Herenicus says, "Apologies, I am in-and-out of hold with Verizon wireless customer service."
    SiduriJayden
  • AodfionnAodfionn Seattle, WAPosts: 1,200Member
    edited April 4
    Humans only gave trolls the right to live in civilization after the former realized that the latter were super keen on smashing things. 


    Aurora says, "Are you drunk, Aodfionn?" 

    (The Targossian Academy): Halos says, "Go on! I need to feel the wind in my hair!"


    FrederichJaydenBann
  • AsmodronAsmodron Posts: 2,042Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Hmm this has become interesting. So of races hated by gods:

    Lorielan dislikes Humans
    Babel dislikes Rajamalan
    Neraeos dislikes Atavians (Im assuming..)
    Vastar dislikes Tritons (may as well throw this in)

    Anything else?
  • NicolaNicola Posts: 550Administrator Achaean staff
    @Jovolo Within the Orders that place any reverence or have issue with certain races, you'll find switching willy nilly between the races to be frowned upon at the very least by the Gods and fellow order members. You might even find promotion or induction reqs skewed against you because the God doesn't trust members of X race.

    For another example, it was fairly frowned upon within the Order of Phaestus to be a dwarf via reincarnation, or to switch between as needed, and that's an order that focuses upon familial bonds. Being in the badbooks in that environment is not something they'd go through just for some mechanical advantage/convenience.
  • KayeilKayeil Washington StatePosts: 2,698Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Asmodron said:
    Hmm this has become interesting. So of races hated by gods:

    Lorielan dislikes Humans
    Babel dislikes Rajamalan
    Neraeos dislikes Atavians (Im assuming..)
    Vastar dislikes Tritons (may as well throw this in)

    Anything else?
    I think Voc mentioned something to me a while back about Nerai or Tritons not being too trusting of Grooks either.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • KyrraKyrra Sanctum of the SkyPosts: 4,293Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Melodie cut her wings off when Nerai?
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

  • MelodieMelodie MhaldorPosts: 4,532Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yes, as a penance thing because yea, Neraeos is not super keen on them or grooks due to lore and history.
    "You have had an extraordinary adventure, my dear. Extraordinary! One that few people could ever imagine. Treasure it. Keep it safe and secure, tucked away in some special place in your heart. 

    But... don't spend the rest of your days chasing a ghost."
    Kyrra
  • AsmodronAsmodron Posts: 2,042Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    So mean.
  • KezKez Posts: 646Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Lupus disliked dragons.
  • ValariaValaria Posts: 385Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Kez said:
    Lupus disliked dragons.
    now that is surprising.. Lupus dislike dragons?

    2015/01/12 Tecton, the Terraformer has bestowed His divine favour upon you. It will last for approximately 1 Achaean month.
  • SarathaiSarathai Posts: 2,139Member
    edited April 4
    Valaria said:
    Kez said:
    Lupus disliked dragons.
    now that is surprising.. Lupus dislike dragons?
    The ones who were more interested in XP than things like dying a dozen times to kill a particularly tough denizen, especially back when a death or two could easily cost you Dragon and 100 was the cap.

    Whether that same reasoning would hold water nowadays, with vastly reduced experience loss for dragons, is potentially another story. I also think that the general attitude towards losing/gaining experience among the majority of dragons has noticeably shifted from that era. There are still some who complain about losing experience on death, but most of the ones I know wouldn't give a hoot.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



    Kez
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna bePosts: 3,248Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Anyone who attempts a foray (especially mirrortower) gives zero fucks about experience.

    This has been a passive-aggressive PSA.
    Huh. Neat.
    Bann
  • FrederichFrederich Posts: 1,241Member @ - Epic Achaean
    @Ahmet

    So true.

    Margam more so tho.
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna bePosts: 3,248Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Frederich not post-changes :innocent:
    Huh. Neat.
«1
Sign In to Comment.