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A way to make Eleusian RP make sense for -everyone-

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  • AegothAegoth Member Posts: 1,906 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Alrena said:

    edit: there is also nothing wrong with my chibi dragon! I will never change it!
    idk, sexy anime big-boobed dragon girl is pretty enticing....
  • AegothAegoth Member Posts: 1,906 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Seriously.... so sexy. mmmmm
    YselaShirszaeJaydenTorinn
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,735 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Seek professional help.
    :pleased::pleased:
    NazihkTahquil
  • AileaAilea Member Posts: 60 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    WTF did I just read? I mean seriously? 

    More to the the point, Eleusis has always had this issue of division. I remember Gaia -trying- to make something happen but she was fought every step of the way. I am sure @Alrena remembers that each time you attempted to do something of  benefit for Eleusis, you were met with a huge amount of resistance that rivals Cyrene's. 

    The sad truth of the matter is, I doubt it will change, there are too many pacifists and that is all they know and remotely want. Which is so very sad, Eleusis has so much potential, yet you have players that are blocking any kind of successful growth and community. 

    CaelanBlujixapug
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,735 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    People do it all the time, even still.
    :pleased::pleased:
  • CaelanCaelan Member Posts: 362 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Trey said:
    What Ailea detailed is why I like Theocratic governments in Achaea. It's -really- hard to find a leg to stand on arguing against something if Big S or the Bloodsworn say "this is how it is", and doing so will find you pretty quickly out of the city.
    You're killing me today! I just made a Mhaldorian novice serpent who was going to preach that TRUE strength requires pacification. MORE CREDITS GONE!

    SiduriPrytheJayden
  • KiahKiah Member Posts: 56 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I dunno you guys. I'm really pleased to come home from work to see this actually got some discussion on the matter, even if you're all collectively disagreeing with me lol. Just saying "shut up it won't work you're dumb" was pretty annoying to me. 

    My idea doesn't work, that's fine. Totally fine, it was just an idea. But, I need to say this because the "go find some RP" and "ok then leave dumdum" comments are frustrating, because they're just completely worthless. It doesn't help anything. Like can you say something constructive or helpful? Get outta here. I digress. So, in my opinion, being a rogue is like qq'ing the game without actually qq'ing. I've had a rogue character before, and it's severely boring. Please don't tell me I have to go find RP and the game is what I make it, because rogue life is lonely and depressing and again, boring. Whether you find RP here and there or not. Most people are AFK half the time, or standing around chatting on OOC clans, and/or have no interest in you or your story. Besides, I don't want to leave the city, I don't want to be separated from the story line, I don't want to wander around aimlessly, visiting people and hunting, to no end. Rogue life is not the solution. So, no. And you people saying "gtfo if you don't like it" I'm guessing you would feel just as frustrated if you were in this position. 


    It's not that I'm not having fun (and it's not just me, by the way, this isn't all about me), I have a great time when I'm online. But, when it comes to the actual religious/Naturey stuff RP, when you're not socialising and making friends (IC friends, not on OOC chat clans) then it's just so, so frustrating. There's nothing to be said, because nothing makes sense. "Yeah, I think cities shouldn't exist too, but I don't think killing the people who live in them over and over again is the answer so I'm just gonna stand around and complain" ..okay, well that's stupid. So, what is the answer? This is the problem. This is what I'm talking about. What is the answer? I just want to make something in the game that can be backed by people who don't want to RP their character to be slapping down everyone who feels differently than they do. Meet us halfway by doing x + y so we can get to z.  

    So, that was fun. Just explaining the core of what I think the problem is. If the text/wording makes me sound pissy, sorry. I'm not, I'm just direct.

    Moving on...

    I think it was @Sarathai that said something about how each of the cities is never going to compromise, and he said why. I appreciated that. That was useful, so thanks guy. After reading through all the responses, I can see why my idea was never gonna work. I didn't appreciate all the attitude, but you're all right, regardless. So, I guess I'm just back where I started. No clue how to fix the problem, even though I'm willing to put in the work it would most definitely require. If you guys have any suggestions that don't involve giving up in some way or another, I'm listening. Meanwhile, I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing IC, which is mindlessly arguing a moot point. It's frustrating, but it's also fun at times to hear what other people think and try to see things from their position. 

  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 3,713 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Your idea wasn't constructive, good, or anything that will ever happen in game. It was insane and had no basis in reality.

    Why do you expect constructive criticism on something that was worse than a troll post?

    Here is your idea translated to Evil:

    I would REALLY love it, if we could find a way to make it possible to create a story that ends with everyone worshipping Sartan instead of being opposed to Evil.

    The RP behind this story would be that Mhaldor has to convince cities that they need to change. Right now it sucks cause not everyone worships Sartan and that's my RP and everyone else should support Sartan.

    Everyone who doesn't agree with this should be destroyed.

    I feel this is a great way for Sartan to get more power and be more awesome.

    The whole "People don't accept Evil as the one true path" doesn't work for me right now. Everyone should accept Sartan.

    Do you see how stupid that is?

    DragonknightAegothNazihkAilea
  • KiahKiah Member Posts: 56 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Ugh Cooper, shut up. You're such an ass. I already admitted openly that my idea was bad, would you calm down? What's wrong with you lol
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 3,713 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Hail lord sartan 

    DragonknightAilea
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 881 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    No capital S or L? @Sartan zap him plz.
  • KhelKhel Member Posts: 159 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Hail stan.

    @Kiah if it helps you can think of it like this: cities already had the choice to chill with nature and be chill, and they said nah. So your job as a non-comm is now to convince citizens to leave and either join you in Eleusis or go rogue (because a city with no citizens gets taken back by nature). Game doesn't have to change, you don't have to learn to pk, and you have an excuse to go badger people for IC story arcs.
    FarrahLiyane
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 881 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    If antidas is telling you to be less of a dick then... 
    Siduri
  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 196 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I don't get the 'get with it or get out' mentality really. If @Kiah wants to RP against the divine-mandated stuff he should be able to. It isn't going to be supported but as long as the assholeness is kept to a minimum people around here pretty much let you do what you want. Now if you want harass people of your city because they attacked somewhere else, then yeah they had the renaissance to keep that kind of thing to a minimum. There is nothing worse than a bunch of people whining that they are being raided.

    Honestly what I am saying is that if you focus your attention internally and try to change Eleusis into being less combative then you are being parasitic and doing it wrong. If you focus it outwards are just start preaching then you are actually spreading RP and being constructive then I am sure some people will see it and start joining in if it suits them. Or you will find out it isn't as fun as your thought and that is the reason it hasn't really taken off.

    IMO, the Renascence was to give cover to the combatants after centuries of people complaining about someone or other getting them raided, trying to force it back to that is a no go at this point, maybe in a couple of RL years they will think differently.
    Liyane
  • AntidasAntidas Member Posts: 1,157 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Minifie said:
    If antidas is telling you to be less of a dick then... 
    Hey, just because I enjoy RPing a jackass doesn't mean I enjoy being one to people IRL

    PrytheJaydenShirszae
  • FarrahFarrah Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 973 @ - Epic Achaean
    Most factions are intentionally at all the other factions' necks now, yeah.
  • MelodieMelodie MhaldorMember Posts: 4,332 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 14
    Accipiter said:
    Some stuff
    The problem with it is if most of the faction, or close to half even, is rebelling against the mandate, it kind of completely undermines the faction as well as the divine. I mean, do y'all ever wonder why Gaia quit? I'm sure there's an assortment of reasons, but at its core, I have a feeling how the city treated her was a big part. It was disgusting, to say the least.

    It's not that various Eleusians disagree, it's that a large portion of them do everything possible to undermine the faction and anything related to those goals, or to any people who support those goals. That includes, in some instances, organizing OOCly to cause problems, or messaging Tecton and whining, or a slew of other things I'm sure I never heard about. The things I did hear about was enough to chase me off from Eleusis for good.

    There's nothing constructive or interesting about what's been happening, and it's been happening for OOC years now. It's just drama, headache, and a mess. I wish the Eleusians the best, but I stand by my original statement: There comes a time where you have to let go of the old and embrace the new for the sake of the faction's identity and validity. Now's that time.
    "You have had an extraordinary adventure, my dear. Extraordinary! One that few people could ever imagine. Treasure it. Keep it safe and secure, tucked away in some special place in your heart. 

    But... don't spend the rest of your days chasing a ghost."
    AntidasAccipiterAlrenaFarrah
  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 196 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Melodie said:
    Accipiter said:
    Some stuff
    The problem with it is if most of the faction, or close to half even, is rebelling against the mandate, it kind of completely undermines the faction as well as the divine. I mean, do y'all ever wonder why Gaia quit? I'm sure there's an assortment of reasons, but at its core, I have a feeling how the city treated her was a big part. It was disgusting, to say the least.

    It's not that various Eleusians disagree, it's that a large portion of them do everything possible to undermine the faction and anything related to those goals, or to any people who support those goals. That includes, in some instances, organizing OOCly to cause problems, or messaging Tecton and whining, or a slew of other things I'm sure I never heard about. The things I did hear about was enough to chase me off from Eleusis for good.

    There's nothing constructive or interesting about what's been happening, and it's been happening for OOC years now. It's just drama, headache, and a mess. I wish the Eleusians the best, but I stand by my original statement: There comes a time where you have to let go of the old and embrace the new for the sake of the faction's identity and validity. Now's that time.
    Yeah, I agree with that which is why I said that focusing internally is parasitic and shouldn't be done. But there shouldn't really be any reason to make it impossible for a hippie running around telling everyone to love trees.

    It seems like easy RP but it is deceptively hard to make a pacifist that isn't an abrasive asshole blaming everyone for violence in the world. I don't think it should be discouraged if someone wants to make the attempt, as long as they are mostly focused external to the city. No one wants citymate complaining about their actions and by playing a counter-culture role that is what you will will be doing and it will be bad and annoying.

    Of course, I mean all of this in a high-concept sort of way and you are saying it has already devolved into the parasitic, pull down everyone else because they interrupted my chatting/mudsex by inviting retaliation bullshit that it always turns into and so should probably be stomped out.
  • NazihkNazihk Member Posts: 425 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    @Kiah

    Look. The thing you need to realize here is that pacifism is dead in this game and it is dead for good reason. It is a boring stale ideology that contributes nothing to the game but drama and petty politics. It creates internal conflict while remaining impotent against external forces.

    Quite simply, there's just nothing for a pacifist ideology to do. There's no way that it can accomplish anything, no levers you can use against us. You can't really hit our trade. You can't sway global opinions against us, because we're already at war with the entire world. You can't sway our citizens against us, because we are a theocracy. All you can really do is hope that the Bloodsworn decide to side with you despite the fact that there is zero benefit for them in doing so.

    The only thing that your pacifist ideology does is weaken your own faction. The pacifist faction is basically our fifth column, weakening Eleusis from the inside while we pound on them from the outside. When Eleusis fights itself, we win.

    The best thing you can do for Eleusis is abandon the peaceful hippie forestal mindset and join in the war effort. You can do a "more in sorrow than in anger" instead of being the wrath of nature, that would be fine. 

    The second best thing you can do for Eleusis is to quit the organization and stop setting it against itself.

    The absolute worst thing you can do for Eleusis is exactly what you are doing now.
    Aegoth
  • VercioVercio Member Posts: 45 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Melodie said:
    I'm not sure there's a resolution to this.

    Eleusis is eating itself alive because its core lore now involves conflict, and people hate that but choose to stay anyway. As if somehow staying and opposing the very lore that is apart of the city now somehow is helpful.

    The divide is created by the citizens, not the lore. The citizens need to resolve it by either getting over it or leaving.

    Not sure if there's much else to be said.
    I chose leaving.... heh
  • KiahKiah Member Posts: 56 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited March 15
    Okay, @Keorin thank you so much, because the first part of your post is almost a literal translation of what I was saying. I just wanted something that could actually happen. I explicitly stated that I realised it could take forever, if it even ever happened. 

    I'm not unrealistic, I was just trying to think of a creative way to make RP more fruitful. With combat, you can actually -do- something. With RP, you just get to talk. 

    I can tell pretty much none of you know Kiah IG which is totally fine. It's true she is a non-comm. It's false that she wants to stand around bitching and moaning, and not trying to make things better by discussing and learning with other players. I also said that if it came down to the point where an actual compromise was offered, and every single city still refused to try something different in the name of Nature, then she'd get down with beating some ass again. 

    So just to reiterate, I've been saying it'd be nice if there was something to -do- (something TO DO) other than talk. It's fun and all, but I am the type of person who prefers to get results, and talking can't get the type of results that will truly solve the problem. Which is, Operation Save Nature. 

    Okay, cool. 

    So now that we all understand each other I wanted to say thanks to @Antidas cus yeah, there was some seriously uncalled for and puerile behavior. I'm glad to see the thread took a turn for the better.

    @Asmodron I agree, and thank you.

    My last comment on some things that have been said so far: 

    There's been some amount of over-exaggeration here. Details are important, especially with a sensitive topic like this one where passions are flaring and deeply rooted opinions are being tested etc whatever else. 

    Passivity and pacifism are two completely different things, yes, and that's also what I'm saying. That is exactly. What I'm saying. I want results. I want us to DO something. Just because I'm not down for slapping hos doesn't mean I am happy to sit around on my ass looking for a good excuse to complain. The plan after? It's self-explanitory. We want to see nature healed, we want to accomplish this without trying to burn the cities and their inhabitants to the ground. When the cities cooperate, we can work towards the healing. If the cities don't cooperate AFTER WE'VE GIVEN AN ACTUAL OPTION TO HEAL NATURE then that's when we should start slapping people around, imo.

    Right now we're (Eleusis) saying "hey you should move out of your house with all the shiny things and come live in the dirt with me so nature can heal" and the cityfolk are like naw.

    My idea was saying: "hey you should let us put some nature in your house, that way you can stay in your house without hurting nature, cool?" and if that could be a viable option, maybe some cities would be like 'sure go for it', and maybe they'd all be like naw get outta here u dirty bug and then we'd just have to throw down. 

    Do you guys get it? I'm not saying we should make everyone change their religion and shit, it's not the way @Cooper said at all. He's nuts. I'm not trying to say hey you should worship Gaia instead, c'mere I'm gonna put shrines in your city is that ok? No. Way off. 

    Do I still think my idea is the answer? No, not really. I just hate it that it seemed no one really understood what I was trying to get at. 

    Edit: And I am aware that Ashtan and Mhaldor's "religion" kind of requires that they hate Nature and what not. This is why I'm saying, if a city would refuse to change even with a good alternative, then f*ck em let's fight. 

    TL;DR???? I bolded the stuff that outlines what I'm saying.


  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 196 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    @Kiah I think the problem you will have is it is a one time event. Once you have played out the thing you will either be at war with the ones who said no and you will have the combat anyway, or they said yes and that is the end of the story between them and Eleusis. When you are talking about the major organisations that kind of one off thing -always- ends and 5 minutes later people are doing what they were before it started.

    And honestly, RP is how most of the change in the game takes place. Combat is bound by the systems it takes place in, if you RP well you get stuff like @Jurixe (and others I assume) making that thing on Meropis. If you do it well you can get some support, if you don't then try to do it better next time.

    I don't know about your situation, but the best I can suggest is to lay off preaching to the choir for a while and try talking to the other factions and find where you can make any progress. Once you find the places that have some wiggle room work out an event that focuses on that.
    KiahNazihk
  • KiahKiah Member Posts: 56 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Yeah. I don't have a problem with combat when there's a good reason behind it. I guess I just can't justify world war without having exhausted all other efforts first, and I won't go on to repeat what Was talking about earlier... that being said, I really like what you're saying @Accipiter and I gotta say, I agree. It's not a me thing though, it's a we thing. I guess we'll see what the future holds. 

  • FarrahFarrah Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 973 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited March 16

    Why not RP exactly what you're saying though? Actually try to persuade the cities to undergo some change. They'll most likely all say no anyway. If someone says yes, that's the point where you ask the Divine to help make it happen.

    Your idea is just kinda backwards because the gods aren't going to make it happen for you, which means there's literally nothing for them to do for you presently. You have to RP your way there first.

    I honestly thought Rangor and them literally already RPed exactly what you want. I know someone asked to do something in Targ and I said hell no. I'm just not sure where the issue is.

    BadeAnedhelTorinn
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