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A way to make Eleusian RP make sense for -everyone-

KiahKiah Member Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
I would REALLY love it, if we could find a way to make it possible to create a story that ends with the Divine working together to change the cities (the ones who choose to cooperate) into cities that are similar to Eleusis, in that they work around and with the forest/earth, rather than standing atop and ruining it.

The RP behind this story, would be that in order for that to happen, the citizens of Eleusis must step up and try to convince those cities that they need to and CAN change. Right now, there is war brewing, because Eleusis wants the cities to stop ruining the earth. Well, that's just going to go on and on and on forever and ever, and it (unlike in other cities) is creating a huge divide right down the middle of the village because so many of the citizens support violence, and so many of them don't. It doesn't make sense for there to not be a real solution to the problem that the non-violent people can root for, without betraying their beliefs. It might take a million bajillion years, but knowing that it can and will eventually happen by Divine will, I know my character, for one, would no doubt and without hesitation, be willing to back that movement.

The violent and the peaceful people would then be able to agree that the cities who refuse to cooperate, even with a palpable solution before them, should be destroyed. Then we'd be left with an RP story thing that can go forever and ever that actually makes sense.

I feel this is a great way to get Eleusis back from it's weird stagnancy, and to soothe the discontent that is causing the actual players a lot of frustration, that will otherwise never go away.

I'm sure plenty of you are saying "Well duh, that's been the RP all along" but I'm not talking about only  the RP right now, I'm suggesting and asking for a real solution, something that would have to be done by the men (and women!!!) behind the curtains.

The whole "Eleusis hates cities and wants them destroyed" doesn't work for everyone who lives there right now. Sure, people want the problem that cities create to go away, but just mindlessly killing the people who live there isn't what they're interested in, and right now, because of Gaia, people are being forced to either

1. "well we tried asking them to change and they won't so let's kill em" or

2. "I want to keep trying (to absolutely no end) to get them to change, and in doing so, betray my goddess and my own beliefs knowing that they probably won't." 

This idea brings those two options together in the end. 



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Comments

  • KiahKiah Member Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Why don't you suggest something else, then? I've presented a real problem. Just because you don't like my idea, doesn't mean you can't come up with your own! Dunno why you would really take the time to respond like that, if you don't actually care to make it better? Please try to say something helpful, rather than ruining the thread before it even gets started with your negative nancy comments! :( 
    Boosteya
  • NazihkNazihk Member Posts: 604 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    You know the non-violent option will never work.

    You know that nothing will ever come of it.

    You know that you will end up defaulting to "Well, since they won't do this the easy way, we're gonna have to do it the hard way."

    So with all that in mind, why don't you just make up a non-violent movement for Eleusis? Then you can all back it and literally everybody else in the world will pretend that it doesn't exist. That's exactly what would happen if you got your wish here anyways, only it's way easier to do and it doesn't requires you guys getting outside help. 

    Also, divided causes like that never ever work, it's why Hashan is basically the poster child for "failure to thrive" on the global stage.
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 3,937 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Uh, no to this. What in the hell...

    Also, you haven't presented a real problem. There is not a problem with cities taking away from nature.

    CaelanTreySobriquetAziik
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 912 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Eleusis being so divided is an eleusis problem, and one for eleusis to solve. They have a choice as a council to exercise whether the peaceful group are forced to fight or not, and at the moment it's two factions trying to overthrow the other. 

    Something's got to give, when I left it was pretty divided, but who knows now.
    Boosteya
  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 246 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I mean really, Nature is a big place and I am sure there is some RP out there that doesn't focus on the cities. Why not go out and find it?
    Liyane
  • KiahKiah Member Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    You guys are so rude, lol. 
    LiyaneShirszae
  • LiyaneLiyane Member Posts: 103 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited March 13
    I do think there is a problem here and it's that Forestals only have two options:

    1) Join Eleusis which does have a clear, combat-oriented, agressive agenda towards every faction except Cyrene which it merely holds in contempt
    2) be rogue

    I'd think the best solution would be a return of a non-city associated house for Forestals who aren't looking for endless conflict with every other city.

    [Edit] ugh daylight saving brain making it hard to type...
    PrytheJaydenAereidhna
  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 3,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Would t this further rob Eleusis of identity as it would 'complete' one of their factional goals and leave them with listless and asking, 'what now?'
    LiyaneCaelan
  • LiyaneLiyane Member Posts: 103 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    Accipiter said:

    Since the Renaissance the RP for everywhere is hyper aggressive, but that shouldn't stop you from going out and making your own RP that is more focused on debate and understanding if you want that, or just ignore it all if you want, no one will really say anything about it unless you make a target out of yourself.
    I guess that's what I'm suggesting just not in so many words.

    I never played in the prerenassaince houses but I was in the Druid Guild back in the day and I don't remember any combat that wasn't around stopping exterminations (so more defensive in nature). I'm not sure if there's been any new houses since the Renaissance or if there's a pathway for it, but I do think starting with a clan of like minded Forestals could be a good start towards a "peaceful" Forestals group.
  • CaelanCaelan Member Posts: 576 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Accipiter said:shouldn't stop you from going out and making your own RP...

    Hell, in this particular case Kiah could just start a clan that preaches peaceful dismantling of the cities. If you actually go out and engage people it would probably get enough notice to start a conversation at least, if not a little divine assistance or something if it caught 
    This is the way to accomplish your goal @Kiah

    And then you dhould remember, "Everyone is a pacifist, until they get punched in the face"

    Accipiter
  • EllodinEllodin HawaiiMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 774 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Most of the answer is within the previous posts or posts within the game itself, but this is justifying an IC goal with OOC reasoning.

    Simplifying things a bit, an IC goal is to reclaim the cities, as strongly implied within our guiding set of ideals. From there, we figure out processes that seem viable from an IC standpoint. We do this in spite of knowing that on an OOC level, we don't really expect our goals to reach a simple conclusion in our favour, same as followers of Babel (hopefully) don't really expect the game to wipe out and become nothingness through their IC actions. Without cooperation from all sides involved (along with their Patrons and perhaps even greater forces, depending on the ramifications!), very little will mechanically change.

    That's the basic gist of RPing and playing Achaea; if there's a mutually-agreed-upon result that doesn't tread on in-game logic, it can likely be facilitated. There are examples of results that came from initiatives that began "behind the curtain," like the Atavians of Genji finding a new religion, and that's reflected in small changes to their village. Yet that would not have occurred through normal mechanical expectation, that came through consistent roleplay and effort allowing groups to meaningfully take part in that opportunity.

    Solutions have been presented IC, and it's not much of a secret that some people refuse to take part for petty reasons, like the involvement of certain individuals. Regardless of the reasons that people give for refusing to participate, continuing to argue against the ideals that Eleusis is now based on makes little sense. Is it a matter of blurred lines between IC and OOC, or do that many characters have a trait of being unwilling to change with the world?

    From what I remember with US Criminal Justice, the ruling on the case Trop v. Dulles (which concluded, perhaps ironically given recent Eleusian situations, that denationalization is an unconstitutional punishment) produced the phrase "evolving standards of decency." In context, this meant that interpretation of the law changed over time as societal norms changed. The same thing applies here; Achaean expectations of idealism and roleplay have evolved far beyond the days when people said, shouted, and posted extremely OOC things, past a time when people would argue that shrubs could lead with reasonable efficacy and those people should not be challenged.

    In spite of this, if people wish to continue to play in that manner, they can! They simply should not expect to be taken seriously when they do it within maturing societies, outside of subcultures where IC actions are based on OOC sensibilities.
    I don’t regret the days that I discarded,
    I don’t feel sorry for the lilac of my soul.
    The purple rowan burning in the garden
    Can’t warm and comfort anyone at all.
    MelodieJurixeDaeirShimi
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 912 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Aegoth said:
    Alrena said:
    I'm not the Speaker anymore, or Eleusian for that matter
    yea, you aren't. So change that cutesy green dragon shit avatar. i suggest this:


    Image result for cute green dragon
    go hard or go home, Aegoth!
  • AegothAegoth Member Posts: 2,061 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Minifie said:
    Aegoth said:
    Alrena said:
    I'm not the Speaker anymore, or Eleusian for that matter
    yea, you aren't. So change that cutesy green dragon shit avatar. i suggest this:


    Image result for cute green dragon
    go hard or go home, Aegoth!
    You arent gonna win this war


    JeslynAziikHalos
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 912 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Aegoth said:
    Minifie said:
    Aegoth said:
    Alrena said:
    I'm not the Speaker anymore, or Eleusian for that matter
    yea, you aren't. So change that cutesy green dragon shit avatar. i suggest this:


    Image result for cute green dragon
    go hard or go home, Aegoth!
    You arent gonna win this war


    Image result for green heart dragon
    BadeYselaShirszaeJayden
  • AegothAegoth Member Posts: 2,061 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Minifie said:
    Aegoth said:
    Minifie said:
    Aegoth said:
    Alrena said:
    I'm not the Speaker anymore, or Eleusian for that matter
    yea, you aren't. So change that cutesy green dragon shit avatar. i suggest this:


    Image result for cute green dragon
    go hard or go home, Aegoth!
    You arent gonna win this war


    Image result for green heart dragon

    BadeYselaShirszaeJayden
  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 2,404 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."

    CaelanLiyaneHalos
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 912 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Image result for croc      
  • AlrenaAlrena Member Posts: 517 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited March 13
    Minifie said:
    Image result for croc      
    That was one of the first video games I ever played when I was young. Rip Croc, so underrated, but just as good as Spyro the Dragon. You will forever live on in my heart.

    edit: there is also nothing wrong with my chibi dragon! I will never change it!
    image
    Minifie
  • AegothAegoth Member Posts: 2,061 @@ - Legendary Achaean
                
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 912 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Alrena said:
    Minifie said:
    Image result for croc      
    That was one of the first video games I ever played when I was young. Rip Croc, so underrated, but just as good as Spyro the Dragon. You will forever live on in my heart.
    I fell in love with his little noises... WAZOO!
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 912 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Aegoth said:
                
    Image result for kutlass
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 912 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    @Alrena I've got a legit totally legal 100% 'authentic' copy on the PC that I just blitzed through of both games... I forgot how damn catchy the music was (probably the best PS1 platformer soundtrack in croc 2 IMO).
  • CaelanCaelan Member Posts: 576 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited March 13
    Alrena said:
    That was one of the first video games I ever played when I was young. Rip Croc, so underrated, but just as good as Spyro the Dragon. You will forever live on in my heart.

    edit: there is also nothing wrong with my chibi dragon! I will never change it!
    So I guess I show my age when I say I remember playing PONG?  And Atari (goddamn I was great at Missile Command and Centipede and Space Invaders)



    BadeCoamenel
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