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Class Tier List

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  • FarrahFarrah Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 1,247 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I don't know if I'd actually put any classes as S based on the rating descriptions tbh. It depends if "consistently wins every matchup" means if sufficiently skilled/artied or anyone (is the class ez or just really good when mastered?). A nub shaman/monk isn't going to get anywhere, but a good one I'd say can win every matchup. Though, there's also the word "consistently" because how can two classes both consistently win every matchup.

    Also like A+ says "most people can pick it up and do decently well," but I've kinda ignored that because a lot of the best classes cannot easily be picked up by most people imo. The best classes for nubs are different from the best classes for top tier. I'd have to make two completely different lists because some classes will get you really far (but not top) without you having a clue, but then even if you do have a clue there are some people you just can't beat, period (DW and Alchemist are the most notable). Whereas monk, I agree with Jinsun a nub isn't going to pick it up and do really well like a DW nub can, but monk is much more solid than DW at the "highly skilled" level, across all matchups.
    LyrinDochitha
  • CaliraCalira Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 240 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited February 10
    Jester absolutely fits into the S-tier if the definition is that it can consistently win every matchup. Puppetry prep is slow, but unstoppable. Tarot alone is strong enough to hold every momentum class at bay, while somersault + peels/rubble and an inconveniently timed bomb or two makes it far easier to survive almost any prep setup as Jester than most other classes. The executions themselves are among the most difficult to survive, too, if done well. The class is, however, very difficult to play
  • VallieVallie Member Posts: 220 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited February 10
    Non-com 1v1 tier list! A view from the ground floor, assuming these classes are all artied and played well:

    S
    Druid - They can go a number of different routes fairly quickly (and can preserve a spot cause prep), and they can transition between them. Low number of combatants = harder to know/practice, so they're probably sleeper strong too
    Sentinel - Similar to druid, and coming from Lusty, traps are a miserable experience to play against. I've seen how fast they can get to a kill, and they also have some prep
    Monk - Unartied/low artie monks already hurt, crazy amount of versatility for both defense/offence. Feels like they can basically do anything.
    Shaman - Massive aff selection, and can be fine-tuned speed wise because of swiftcurse. Dolls for prep that gets built up during normal momentum strat - unstoppable supposedly? Even if not, so many options there.
    Jester - Feels like they have a 'No' button for everything. Puppets are supposedly unstoppable?

    I'm mostly not sure about puppet/dolls because I haven't looked into them enough, but I feel importantly, all these classes have a wide number of options to kill you that aren't difficult to switch between. They all prep in some manner in case you can get away from the momentum side, so if they ever get ahead, seems like you're just boned (because if you're momentum you're behind and won't recover/they get to try and kill first, if you're prep they're further along in their prep, if you run they're prep so they can resume part of the way)

    A+
    RW DWC - as a trash RW I can still kill some people, so I'm sure good ones are monsters. Difference between L3 vs. forged is also massive and changes things - forged pith doesn't drain any mana very much even on a standing target, and you'll work hard to get to maintain 3 affs, L3s has no problem with either thing.
    RW/Pally SnB - SnB is so versatile, and just needs to live a bit longer to go off. Both these versions have better abilities to survive than Infernal, Paladin gets extra kill route
    Infernal DWC - have an alternate route in case they count torso well
    Magi - multiple routes, has prep, can do good damage, a number of cool vibe tricks
    Bard - prep, aff momentum, high damage, breaks fast, many things to combo together. I think timings can just be a bit awkward or this would be in S.
    DW - They feel like easier, slightly less versatile, and slightly less scary monks. But they're still scary and can do just about anything :(
    Blademaster - there's probably a way to fight them properly. I just don't know what it is, yet.

    A
    Pally DWC - Still great because DWC, but I'm not sure how it gets around torso counting without runes to try and push damage with a pansy DSB.
    Infernal SnB - Still great because SnB, but just not quite as many survival tools as RW/Pally
    Serpent - If you can manage to get away and have prep, I think you'll eventually win against it, but have different routes that go off fast and can dodge a lot of things.
    Alchemist - Same as serpent, but has slightly less tricks/slightly more difficulty getting away while being really harsh in room.

    B+
    RW 2H - the longer the fight goes, the more likely you'll randomly get cheesed! Really, really fast breaks when artied, fractures + damage get out of control.

    B
    Any DWB - I suspect at full artie levels, the different specs have roughly equivalent advantages due to heavier momentum needs, and not as much weighting on defensive tools.
    Other 2H - Similar to DWB, but hugalaz synergizes better with it.

    B-
    Dragon - only because it doesn't really scale up as much with full arties, and kill routes are a bit more obvious. Really enjoy fighting in it.

    Unsure
    Apostate
    Occultist
    - I'd guess both of these are in the B+/A area. I'm in love with both classes, but without a prep route on them, I'm not sure how they fare. Artied looks like it'd make a big difference for Occie.
    Sylvan
    - Just don't know a ton about these other than heartseed route has to be cured in a specific way, and watch out for shockwave + stormhammers.

  • AmranuAmranu Member Posts: 710 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Amranu's tier list.

    S
    Shaman

    D
    Every class that isn't S-tier
    Iniar
  • FarrahFarrah Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 1,247 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 10
    I thought shaman was D and everything else is S.
    Iniar
  • RyzethRyzeth Member Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited February 10
    Vallie said:
    Unsure
    Apostate
    Occultist
    - but without a prep route on them, I'm not sure how they fare. Depends entirely upon how good you are at chasing. See: Seragorn/Medi. Though like I said, Occ still has some tricks that don't get used.
    Sylvan
    - Just don't know a ton about these other than heartseed route has to be cured in a specific way, and watch out for shockwave + stormhammers. If you're going zerg and not running, probably the worst class to stay in the room against. Running kinda stops them in their tracks, because of clouds. Arcane power is a nuisance; it's useless if target leaves the room. At the same time, fighting against an artied Sylvan it feels like it maxes out considerably faster than anything else, making their kill windows come rapidly fast.


  • LyrinLyrin Member Posts: 120 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited February 10
    I propose starting a class tear list, based on forum complaints from members of that class.

    I'll get us started...    

    S+++++:  Serpents.

    IsrayhlIniar
  • AmranuAmranu Member Posts: 710 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Farrah said:
    I thought shaman was D and everything else is S.
    Shaman uses paraconsistent logic, allowing it to be both S and D at the same time.
    Iniar
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,169 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    This thread is getting dangerously close to crude humour.
    Huh. Neat.
  • MishgulMishgul Sør-TrøndelagMember Posts: 5,303 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I have an old video which summarizes my feelings on the point


    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
    Utianima
  • LiyaneLiyane Member Posts: 103 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Kythra said:
         +Though feel free to add a tier list for group combat if you want! 
    As someone who does combat almost exclusively in groups, I'd love to see someone's group combat tier list (or even spin it off into it's own thread)
  • ExelethrilExelethril moar theta decayMember Posts: 3,036 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 11
    I think SnB runewarden is a B, halfway in between a prep/momentum class.

    The lack of kill options beyond DSB vs smart opponents who know how to defend against focus locks makes the class pretty boring/predictable.

    Add one of the longest prep times vs the extremes of either end (occie/monk) then well, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    [ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]

    [ Runewarden Sparring Videos | Link ]
  • RyzethRyzeth Member Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Liyane said:
    Kythra said:
         +Though feel free to add a tier list for group combat if you want! 
    As someone who does combat almost exclusively in groups, I'd love to see someone's group combat tier list (or even spin it off into it's own thread)
    2v2: blademaster + anything. Literally every class synergises extremely well with it.
  • KenwayKenway San FranciscoMember Posts: 1,120 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Liyane said:
    Kythra said:
         +Though feel free to add a tier list for group combat if you want! 
    As someone who does combat almost exclusively in groups, I'd love to see someone's group combat tier list (or even spin it off into it's own thread)
    If I got to hand pick classes for a group I was leading it'd be 90% DwC runies. Delphinium epseth and epteth dsls that keep your target perma-fucked while doing good damage and draining mana and causing bleed. Whomever else tags along can do whatever they want I don't care.

    - Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
    "Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
    Xaden
  • ProficyProficy Member Posts: 138 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I think SnB runewarden is a B, halfway in between a prep/momentum class.

    The lack of kill options beyond DSB vs smart opponents who know how to defend against focus locks makes the class pretty boring/predictable.

    Add one of the longest prep times vs the extremes of either end (occie/monk) then well, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    But it's  100% guaranteed when its setup.. and with there ability to bypass para make it the ->strongest <- momentum class. 
  • AegothAegoth Member Posts: 2,065 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 11
    If you think SnB runie is B grade, you're trash tier
  • ExelethrilExelethril moar theta decayMember Posts: 3,036 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 11
    Don't get me wrong, SnB runie is probably an S or A+ against certain classes/player tiers but against occies/monks/top tiers that really know how to fight, there are better/more interesting classes

    @Proficy : pretty sure the tumble window is the same with Intimidate (- shieldstrike high stun), given the torso precondition.

    [ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]

    [ Runewarden Sparring Videos | Link ]
  • MishgulMishgul Sør-TrøndelagMember Posts: 5,303 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Any class with hunger attacks > classes without hunger attacks.

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
  • KenwayKenway San FranciscoMember Posts: 1,120 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Just throwing out there that SnB isn't 100%. It's -either- 100% dsb or 100% torso damage. If you break torso after leg, on point tumbles will still get away and if you do torso then leg, on point torso applies will stop you. That said, you've still got blackout to get around that as well as four different parry bypasses that can all be worked toward simultaneously as well as a 50/50 shot to get your lock every three balances without sacrificing pretty much optimal hindering affs. And yeah, dedication exists. RIP.

    - Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
    "Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
    Dochitha
  • FarrahFarrah Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 1,247 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Runie SnB is A+ or S all around.

    The "simple" insta setup isn't unstoppable (or always an insta, depending on resist alls), but runie has plenty of tools to make it deadly. Granted, whether the long prep is worth being SnB is debatable as runie. I'd rate DWC S or A+ tier too.

    It can definitely beat both good occie's and monks, too. I'm actually curious which classes you think  are both better vs occie and monk but also still as good against everyone else as runie SnB.
  • AmranuAmranu Member Posts: 710 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Mishgul said:
    Any class with hunger attacks > classes without hunger attacks.
    That's what Shaman's missing. Since hunger attacks are clearly greater than anything else, clearly Shaman deserves to get besot back, since Apostate has hunger.
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 6,050 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 11
    General tiers are silly. I only know groupfights, so I'll do a groupfight one.

    S - Depthswalker (Conquest+Environmental+Other terminus spec), Apostate, Priest, Shaman
    A+ - Magi, Bard, Druid, Runewarden
    A -  Serpent, Dragon, Blademaster, Jester, Occultist, Sylvan, Paladin, Depthswalker (other specs), Sentinel, Alchemist, Monk (telepathy spec)
    B - Infernal
    C - Monk (every other spec)

    Env/conq spec depthswalkers have access to some ridiculous tools including litany, booreth, wall destruction into room damage, area damage, ROOM FORCE. This is on top of a class with a LoS projectile block, baby piety, autofollow, baby enfeeble on a short aff chain (mutilate) and absolve, room balance bonus, dodge on demand, self-rez and loads more.

    Apostate has double sicken for ultimate lulz, plus soulspear and frenzy. Priest has piety, absolve, and ultimate grief in bedevil, bloodsworn and hands, plus spiritlash. Shaman can be automated to basically make sure primary targets never have the opportunity to cure critical affs that lead into other class capstones or locks. They also have more utility than you can shake a stick at. You focus the shaman or you never cure anything and die, and if you're focusing the shaman, you're dying to their bigger dudes. Crazy effective even without arties.

    Magi and Bard are all essential to any successful groupfights, harms and vibes are not to be scoffed at. Druid because of hydra, which really doesn't see enough use and is hands down one of the most overpowered groupfight support skillsets in the entire game. Same deal with runewardens - totems are grand melee deciders, always have been, always will be.

    Dragon scores surprisingly high because breathrain, breathstorm, breathstream and EXTREME tank on top of PTV for easy escapes, biting, dcurse staggering and a lot more adding up to a simple-to-start class that does huge amounts of damage, can take as well as it gives and escape from situations other classes couldn't even dream of 98% of the time.

    Support blademasters are a rare breed but a dedicated impaler absolutely debilitates group primaries with impales, voidfist and one of the few damage abilities to go through lyre. The AoE shindo stuff is also a big boon.

    Jester is A because tarot and mickey/pranks guff, plus juggling. Occultist is the same - domination and tarot are nasty, truenames are still fucking stupid. Sylvan fares similarly because of wildgrowth and some of their plant shit, plus fulmination still being relatively strong. Paladin because rites and high frontloaded damage through strength buffs and potential bsworn tank, every other DW terminus spec falls here as well. Sentinel will never not be good.

    Infernal has ghands and.. that's about it. Disappointing from what used to be a terrifyingly potent class. It can shoot bows, I guess.

    Monk sucks, plainly put. They're a shadow of what they used to be and outside of int spec telepathy grief, kaido kind of sucks nuts now (though enfeeble is still great) and deliverance is cool, but you can do all of that as telepathy spec, so why wouldn't you?

    :pleased::pleased:
  • ExelethrilExelethril moar theta decayMember Posts: 3,036 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 11
    Farrah said:
    Runie SnB is A+ or S all around.

    The "simple" insta setup isn't unstoppable (or always an insta, depending on resist alls), but runie has plenty of tools to make it deadly. Granted, whether the long prep is worth being SnB is debatable as runie. I'd rate DWC S or A+ tier too.

    It can definitely beat both good occie's and monks, too. I'm actually curious which classes you think  are both better vs occie and monk but also still as good against everyone else as runie SnB.
    I'm familiar with all of SnB runie's tools, it's just such a boring bag of tools. The extra long prep is what gets to me vs high hp players (vs DWC) but Dedication makes up for it vs certain classes, hence the "certain classes".

    Bard/Blademaster for occie/monk.

    [ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]

    [ Runewarden Sparring Videos | Link ]
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,119 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Boring shouldn't come into the discussion for a tier list, though. Jester historically has always been both the strongest class while being the most boring class. Long prep doesn't necessarily make a class bad either if the class has the tools to stall long enough and the execution is powerful enough. Knight, Monk and Jester have always been on the top running for best 1v1 class because of their combination of powerful execution with the ability to survive momentum. Fuck knows if that's still the case, it's never been more true that I'm speaking entirely hypothetically/logic-based while not really knowing how the classes work (anymore).
  • FarrahFarrah Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 1,247 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Daeir said:

    C - Monk (every other spec)

    Monk sucks, plainly put.

    Umm.... what.

  • ExelethrilExelethril moar theta decayMember Posts: 3,036 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Naw dude, try fighting an auto-following occie indoors without room hinder and see what happens.

    [ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]

    [ Runewarden Sparring Videos | Link ]
  • FarrahFarrah Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 1,247 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Don't run from occie indoors. Hinder instead. Snb is fantastic at it.

    Here's my attempt at this, but I'm not necessarily set on where I placed a lot of classes due to lack of seeing them at top potency:

    1v1

    S

    monk
    runie dwc
    runie snb
    pally snb
    shaman
    infernal dwb

    A+

    bard (would be S if had better prone defense)
    infernal dwc (probably S with, say, lvl 3 gauntlets)
    serpent
    blademaster (might be S, but never seen someone dominate all classes as it yet)
    sylvan
    sentinel
    magi (basically only weakness is opponents tumbling into nairat/etc)

    A

    priest
    occultist
    druid (don't really know, nobody plays it well)
    jester (don't actually know where I rate jester these days because no one plays it well, probably because it's super boring)

    B

    apostate
    depthswalker
    2-hander (any class)
    alchemist

    C

    pally/runie dwb
    pally dwc (probably higher, but snb is so much better for pally)
    infernal snb (probably higher if gauntlets, but dwc is so much better for infernal)


    Group (though honestly, which is best in group depends in part on what else is in the group and what the situation is)

    S

    depthswalker
    magi
    monk
    occultist
    apostate
    sylvan
    sentinel
    druid
    runewarden

    A+

    priest

    A

    bard
    infernal
    paladin

    B

    jester
    shaman
    blademaster

    C

    serpent
    alchemist

  • JhuiJhui Member Posts: 1,952 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    i dunno why monk is at the top of everyone's list.  I'd prefer most knight classes/specs, bard, sentinel, sylvan, shaman and bm over it in 1v1 (hint all of these classes have prep and affs), especially if i put the time into those classes that I've put into monk.  Plus monk is super reliant on blissful/stupidity not proccing on forces :(


    image
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 6,050 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Monk sucks if it's not telepathy spec. It just sucks. So many classes do what phys monks do better and more.
    :pleased::pleased:
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