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Gold Sinks

SenoskeSenoske Posts: 162 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
edited February 8 in North of Thera
No question that gold in circulation right now is pretty insane, which is driving credit prices up, and wrecking all sorts of havoc. Let's talk.

My first idea:
Sell non-decay for gold. Really no huge in game impact, makes sense, and wouldn't hit IRE's revenue stream too hard.

Second idea:
Get rid of remedies, harvesting, and alchemy.

Reason: Everyone uses elixirs/plants/minerals. This wouldn't have a HUGE impact, the initial impact of it would hurt with refunding the skills but in all honesty, they aren't super expensive to trans out as it is, so it wouldn't be a massive impact. This would have a huge effect on the world gold and would cause everyone to have to purchase plants from npc's. Allow shops to still carry plants, tuns (elixirs/alchemy), and minerals bought from the npc's that way if they ever do bought out, monopolies wouldn't boom up. Or make the npc carry unlimited amounts of them and still allow it, that way it causes people to buy from their city shops still but it is still something that makes the gold slowly fade from player hands. This would effectively remove a couple arties from the market, but most of those artifacts are the arties that people either buy for the long haul or last just because why not.

Toxicology can remain due to it not being universally needed for everyone in the game, and the classes that do use venoms are usually the most expensive to artie out. Minus DW.

Feel free to dispute/discuss my ideas and suggest your own!
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Comments

  • AegothAegoth Posts: 1,991 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sorry man, no can do. This cannot possibly succeed, because I have billions of gold sitting around. BILLIONS
  • SenoskeSenoske Posts: 162 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Aegoth said:
    Sorry man, no can do. This cannot possibly succeed, because I have billions of gold sitting around. BILLIONS
    This is why it needs to be something that is consumed forcing purchase later on. To make the big guys, who have that gold sitting around, make the purchases. Can't fight without elixirs/minerals/plants/salves yo!
  • AegothAegoth Posts: 1,991 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Senoske said:

    Can't fight without elixirs/minerals/plants/salves yo!
    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ok, I'll take that bet
    Senoske
  • JurixeJurixe Where you least expect itPosts: 1,546 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Senoske said:

    My first idea:
    Sell non-decay for gold. Really no huge in game impact, makes sense, and wouldn't hit IRE's revenue stream too hard.

    Historically, having a large amount of non-decay in-game items has been said to be bad for the server (or some other technical term that refers to server stress). As a result, letters couldn't be made non-decay any more, and tarot decks were also no longer non-decay by default.

    The insane amounts of gold that people are sitting on would mean a lot of things could be turned non-decay quite easily, which I suspect would be going against former admin stance, but I don't know what the stance is now on that.

    Trilliana
  • TelinusTelinus Posts: 111 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Gold is an issue because there's nothing meaningful or exciting to buy except credits.

  • FrederichFrederich Posts: 952 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    You can buy ships...

    Or housing commodities to make a house...

    Or.... uh...

    Being able to spend gold to buy Shop Of Wonders items like the elixers for +STATS and +XP... and possibly even Heron Feathers & Shrouds would be nifty.
    Aereidhna
  • MathildaMathilda Posts: 267 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I'm thinking there should be a somewhat different perspective to be considered: that there are fewer credits circulating, rather than too much gold circulating. As players become more established, they are less likely to buy credits and sell them for gold on the market; rather, they'd just generate gold by bashing since, equipped with artifacts, this would be the easier choice. This results in an ever-increasing rate of gold generation, and a decreasing rate of credit circulation.

    A solution would perhaps run promotions that are tied to credit purchases, but not necessarily use them up. Talisman pieces every X credits bought comes to mind, for example. I'm sure a lot of you have better ideas! You would essentially want the playerbase to aim for these pieces; the credits sort of become the "bonus" that they can then sell on market.
     <3 
    BadeMelaina
  • NazihkNazihk Posts: 487 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Mathilda said:
    A solution would perhaps run promotions that are tied to credit purchases, but not necessarily use them up. Talisman pieces every X credits bought comes to mind, for example. I'm sure a lot of you have better ideas! You would essentially want the playerbase to aim for these pieces; the credits sort of become the "bonus" that they can then sell on market.
    Problem with this:

    If I want those talismans, I might buy credits, but you know what I'll do with them? I'll sit on them and then I will trade them directly for talisman pieces to somebody else who bought credits for talisman pieces. I will only sell credits for gold if I specifically want gold for something, because I would rather be sitting on a pile of credits than a pile of gold.

    The problem here is that there is only one answer to the gold problem, and that is that gold_in cannot be vastly greater than gold_out. If you want to solve the economy problem you have to heavily throttle the gold income. You can't have a gold cap of 250k/day if people are only spending pennies a day on the refills to farm it. 
    Caelan
  • KezKez Posts: 646 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Well gold sinks threads are an exercise in futility in my experience.

    Insist on the ability to avoid gold sinks.
    Okay done.
    Gold doesn't buy as many credits as it used to. Fix it!
    Okay what if we charge for things again.
    NO MY GOLD!
    Okay.
    Insist on the addition of credit-heavy features.
    Okay done.
    Gold doesn't buy as many credits as it used to. Fix it!
    Okay what if we 
    NO MY GOLD!
    Okay.
    Insist on methods of gold acquisition being more engaging.
    Okay done.
    Gold doesn't buy as many credits as it used to. Fix it!
    Okay wha
    NO MY GOLD!
    Mathilda
  • LintonLinton Posts: 42 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    The last gold sink thread gave us the tightening of the gold faucet in the form of daily gold cap.

    I wonder what this one might bring.
  • JinsunJinsun TN, USAPosts: 2,666 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I have an idea that:

    1. Keeps credits from continuously inflating.

    2. Stops plays on the credit market.

    3. Isn't a ridiculous gold sink.

    Set a standard price for credits and get rid of CFS.

    Credits sell for 6k, period.

    No one can farm gold by hedging the market. There is no fluctuation or inflation, and there won't need to be so many adjustments to bashing values and gold sinks. 
    image
    BadeTrillianaLiyane
  • BorranBorran Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited February 8
    Editted: Ignore my last.

  • AustereAustere TennesseePosts: 1,905 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Credit prices at a fixed price point (not offered through ire beyond the website) is just going to cause gold to continue to pile up while the credit market turns into a ping war due to instant selling of any placed on the market. I'd lean towards lessons for sell through ire for a gold value instead.  
    Bade
  • CaelanCaelan Posts: 477 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Lessons for gold, and Shop of Wonders (at current going-rate/prices) would be a great way to get the gold out and drop the CFS market price.

    BadeLiyane
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaPosts: 5,840 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 8
    Lessons for gold would massively devalue credit purchases for the purposes of learning, a probably not-insignificant source of income for IRE given how much multiclass soaks up lessons at higher tiers. Even if lessons for gold is massively underweighted compared to credit purchasing (at a minimum, you'd need to have the value of a single credit in gold return LESS than the actual equivalent credit unit), it would put a significant amount of pressure on what is presumably a primary income stream.

    The payment model is the issue. Unfortunately, I don't ever see it changing. I've been highly critical of the MTX model that IRE has used (and founded as a concept, funnily enough), but so many mechanics and the very nature of balance in the game itself is tied so heavily to the model now that any attempts to divest away from it will pretty much result in something akin to an entirely separate game.

    There isn't really a solution to this. If it isn't lessons and it's consumable buffs from SoW, then the artefacts that offer those equivalent buffs (l1 stat arties etc) are underweighted purchases and people will be more likely to spend game time accruing gold that they know can net them these buffs for when they need them instead of having them personally.

    Any way you roll the dice, IRE loses out on it. They lose out if they don't change anything either, as the CFS values become increasingly unreachable for new players due to gold inflation.

    The only way to fix it is to change pretty much everything about a comparatively huge portion of the game, and it probably just isn't feasible to do. Even then, they still probably lose. One of the main reasons that I worry about Achaea a lot, to be honest. It doesn't seem very sustainable anymore.
    :pleased::pleased:
    Siduri
  • ExelethrilExelethril EleusisPosts: 2,918 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 8
    Well, the bottomline is Achaea is a business - it's in their best interest to maintain the current dependency on credit purchases to advance your character rather than through farming gold in game. Though, it's hard to strike a balance between credit value/player satisfaction.

    With the implementation of multiclass, I'd like to suggest reevaluating the credit:lesson ratio - this way, more people would be attracted to purchase credits for lessons ("better value for rl money", 6:1 is horrible given how the lesson requirement scales per class) but maintain the current price of artefacts, so people will be tempted/forced to buy artie weapons for their new classes through credit purchases.

    Edit : Actually, that won't work.

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  • JinsunJinsun TN, USAPosts: 2,666 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    wait who has all this fucking gold laying around? I'm chucking about 250k gold at my screen every 12 days and selling probably 100 credits a rl month to sink that.
    image
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaPosts: 5,840 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Can saunter through high level bashing zones in a few hours and hit goldcap relatively easy if you know what you're doing and you're geared enough. Lower Azdun is what, 30-40k alone?
    :pleased::pleased:
  • AsmodronAsmodron Posts: 2,007 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Clearly the answer is taxes by the cities, based on the amount of gold you have accumulated (Inventory, bank, in home and on/in ship). 1% per in game year (unless the city wishes to change said tax). This gold is required for your own protection, to pay the fees of guards and the equipment they utilize. Lower taxes will make your guards weaker as their equipment would be dulled.

    You cannot hide your gold, for through your divine patron's piercing eye, the truth will be known. You may choose to stash your gold away in certain locations, but that risk is on you.


    10000 gold stored = 100 gold tax
    100000 gold stored = 1000 gold tax
    1000000 gold stored = 10000 gold tax
    1000000000 gold stored = 10000000 gold tax.


    Watch as the rogue population increases :>


    BadeSkyeSiduri
  • GreysGreys Posts: 651 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    @Asmodron Amusing as the idea is, it would probably raise credit prices simply as noone would keep their money as gold anymore so you would immediately turn all your gold to credits upon finishing hunting.
    ZahanSiduriLiyane
  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaPosts: 1,753 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Actually, people would just figure out what time the audit is, and drop the gold in a House estate/give it to a loyal for those 5 seconds.
    (Mhaldor): Herenicus says, "Apologies, I am in-and-out of hold with Verizon wireless customer service."
  • KezKez Posts: 646 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    IMO the removal of gold drops is the way to go. Could also be interesting if the only gold drops came from city guards.
    There are many other ways to generate gold, and people would still hunt for experience. They just wouldn't be able to do both at once quite so effortlessly.
  • TelinusTelinus Posts: 111 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I imagine everyone running around chasing butterflies, just so they can buy bloodroot to fight some more.
    Trilliana
  • AsmodronAsmodron Posts: 2,007 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Hmm, perhaps a more logical path to take would be to calculate tax based on the amount of gold that has 'touched their hands' during the period. Meaning the amount of gold they have received and gained through concepts like hunting or trades. This could also take into account credits received by others. While this wont target previous large accumulated sums (though this could be thrown into the formula if they like), it will try to curb future large hauls and slowly chip at it (or fall flat).

    For those thinking of griefing by giving someone 1 million gold. Hey...he just gained 1 million gold, would be on him for giving it back.
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellaterePosts: 2,421 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kez said:
    IMO the removal of gold drops is the way to go. Could also be interesting if the only gold drops came from city guards.
    There are many other ways to generate gold, and people would still hunt for experience. They just wouldn't be able to do both at once quite so effortlessly.
    Some effort has been put into nerfing a lot of the corpse turn-in quests. If they reverse that and remove the gold drops, I could likely see this as feasible.

    Alternatively, since it's Wheel spinning month, I welcome gold for spins. 150k per spin should be enough to drive some of the price down.

    Also, I was joking on TMC only the other day that maybe they should have an honoursline for X number of credits sold on the market. >_> Like actually sold not just put up for sale.


  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaPosts: 1,753 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Someone bring me the claw of the shadow dragon, I will happily dump 10 million gold down the nearest humgii's mouth.

    Jus sayin'.
    (Mhaldor): Herenicus says, "Apologies, I am in-and-out of hold with Verizon wireless customer service."
    BadePrythe
  • RispokRispok Posts: 616 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Remove common (and city) as a language so everybody has to spend massive quantities on language lessons until everybody settles on human as the norm, which would be added.

    Also make every combat action take 10 gold.
    AsmodronAziik
  • MinifieMinifie Posts: 912 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Bashing is now a slot machine, you SPIN 100 GOLD TO GUT VERTANI

    have to get 5 in a row to land a hit. 
    AsmodronPrytheSiduriShirszae
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