Welcome to the Achaea Forums! Please be sure to read the Forum Rules.

Wheel February 2017

245678

Comments

  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 3,969 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    *insert Xzibit meme about liking to gamble here*

    We're already gambling on the spin. We probably don't need a reward that just means RNG has a chance to shaft us a second time.
    RoagnakAereidhna
  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Not to knock the new Promos, but just because we get stuff doesn't mean we are getting a good deal. When 85% of what you get goes into a talisman cache in hopes of getting other pieces or into a container for junk items that flood your inventory,  that 15% that you want needs to be worth it. 

    And when the 15% of the booty that I do want is Also a gamble... well, I won't be making any purchases.



    Aereidhna
  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Oh.. I hadn't seen others' loot payouts. The numbers seem to be more like 95%/5%

  • DridenDriden Member Posts: 243 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Oh my god guys. Not every promo has to be amazing. This one has 1 free spin a day. Where someone wins five hundred credits regardless if they paid daily. So I don't know maybe quit your bitchin?
  • MathildaMathilda Member Posts: 369 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Is the ROI, on average, equal or greater than the norm? If so, then it's fine. I can assure you, we want to avoid Lusternia's model of increasingly massive ROIs that absolutely destroy the economy and the game, eventually.

    It starts small, maybe an average of 10% higher ROI. But then the next month, players expect more. So the admins listen to the outcry and increase the average return to 20%. Then it becomes 30%. Then the effects of the 'limited edition' mini-artifacts became increasingly overwhelming, because your playerbase now expects a bigger 'bang for your buck'. So, no, constantly appeasing the consumer is not always the right move.
     <3 
    LiyaneBlujixapug
  • DridenDriden Member Posts: 243 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Minifie said:
    Driden said:
    Oh my god guys. Not every promo has to be amazing. This one has 1 free spin a day. Where someone wins five hundred credits regardless if they paid daily. So I don't know maybe quit your bitchin?
    These sorts of posts are really aggrevating. You know what is great about being a consumer? When something doesn't seem great, you can give feedback.

    do you know what's great about being a creator? Getting feedback and making MORE people happy and spending money! Honestly, people could just go "wheel isn't worth it" spend almost no money on it, devs think the wheel in general is bad and never use it again, by saying "the wheel isn't quite as good, and gambling for another gamble is even worse", Devs can look st that and go "How can we change it if the overwhelming feedback is bad?" 

    Maybe they make the boxes on 3 symbols spill out 3 talisman pieces, while non matching gets 1. Maybe they exchange them for globes. Maybe they do nothing at all.

    We want to spend money, but if it feels the ROI isn't worth it, we spend nothing and the game struggles for it. @Nicola and @makarios are intelligent people with data behind them to see if our feedback is legitimate, but 0 feedback and little money spent could see a GOOD promo get dropped permanently.

    tl;dr it's my promo and i'll cry if I god damn want to.
    It's the same thread every promo! Until sooner or later your whining (not you specifically) gets the goods raised and makes the shoppers feel better sure. Also makes the game feel more pay to win then before your whining. All kinds of things I could only get if I did promos because of your "feedback" every promo this happens. Every promo you whine and then you get a passyfier and the average player gets shafted. Cause for some reason you feel entitled to win at gambling. You have two options here people. Buy straight credits and know what your getting. Or buy spins and hope for the best. Or or or bitch about it until they rig the wheel for you and everyone is a winner! 

    Shit I'm not even an average consumer in the game. I'm pretty Artied. So at the end of the day I don't get effected. But what about the little guys. Come on man. 
    Caelan
  • DridenDriden Member Posts: 243 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    So there's my feedback to the devs. Don't change a god damn thing. 
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 912 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Mathilda said:
    Is the ROI, on average, equal or greater than the norm? If so, then it's fine. I can assure you, we want to avoid Lusternia's model of increasingly massive ROIs that absolutely destroy the economy and the game, eventually.

    It starts small, maybe an average of 10% higher ROI. But then the next month, players expect more. So the admins listen to the outcry and increase the average return to 20%. Then it becomes 30%. Then the effects of the 'limited edition' mini-artifacts became increasingly overwhelming, because your playerbase now expects a bigger 'bang for your buck'. So, no, constantly appeasing the consumer is not always the right move.
    The ROI, at minimum, just needs to match standard IE credit purchase, but where the issue arises is when people hold off for "the right promotion" and it creates massive spikes in how a company earns their money. The monthly promotions are built to smooth out income for the game, instead of people just saving money and making MASSIVE credit purchases, because they can't rely on paying the bills on spikey income.

    as consumers, we'll wait for the -best- promotion for us, it doesn't mean the promo needs to award us 50% over a normal credit purchase, but at least feel like our value was returned. Globes feel like that, randomly spinning and having the wheel give us a talisman piece is fine too, but a box that may give us a goldenseal root is definitely a negative thought that will make people think "was this worth my cash?"

    Driden said:
    Minifie said:
    Driden said:
    Oh my god guys. Not every promo has to be amazing. This one has 1 free spin a day. Where someone wins five hundred credits regardless if they paid daily. So I don't know maybe quit your bitchin?
    These sorts of posts are really aggrevating. You know what is great about being a consumer? When something doesn't seem great, you can give feedback.

    do you know what's great about being a creator? Getting feedback and making MORE people happy and spending money! Honestly, people could just go "wheel isn't worth it" spend almost no money on it, devs think the wheel in general is bad and never use it again, by saying "the wheel isn't quite as good, and gambling for another gamble is even worse", Devs can look st that and go "How can we change it if the overwhelming feedback is bad?" 

    Maybe they make the boxes on 3 symbols spill out 3 talisman pieces, while non matching gets 1. Maybe they exchange them for globes. Maybe they do nothing at all.

    We want to spend money, but if it feels the ROI isn't worth it, we spend nothing and the game struggles for it. @Nicola and @makarios are intelligent people with data behind them to see if our feedback is legitimate, but 0 feedback and little money spent could see a GOOD promo get dropped permanently.

    tl;dr it's my promo and i'll cry if I god damn want to.
    It's the same thread every promo! Until sooner or later your whining (not you specifically) gets the goods raised and makes the shoppers feel better sure. Also makes the game feel more pay to win then before your whining. All kinds of things I could only get if I did promos because of your "feedback" every promo this happens. Every promo you whine and then you get a passyfier and the average player gets shafted. Cause for some reason you feel entitled to win at gambling. You have two options here people. Buy straight credits and know what your getting. Or buy spins and hope for the best. Or or or bitch about it until they rig the wheel for you and everyone is a winner! 

    Shit I'm not even an average consumer in the game. I'm pretty Artied. So at the end of the day I don't get effected. But what about the little guys. Come on man. 
    What little guys? You mean those who bash gold to but from CFS? No one is asking for the wheel to just hand us massive prizes. Hell the only complaint I've made is the talisman boxes specifically, they could simply remove the boxes and replace it with winning a single piece and I'd be over the moon.

    If you are happy with the promo, buy it, but if some people aren't and give feedback, the devs can use it, if they still have the numbers that the wheel is fine on its ROI then that's ok too, but trying to simply shut down feedback accomplishes absolutely nothing.
    Liyane
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 3,728 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I mean he has a point at least. Every gamble promo, people make a thread and generally complain about stuff until something changes. 

    I disagree that you should get the same stuff from gambling that you would from buying directly. If the baseline is equivalent to credit purchases, then it's not gambling. You want to get the 'big hit' by gambling, but not take the hit on the opposite end of the spectrum?

    Its a gambling promotion, not a straight % addition. You shouldn't expect to 'win' no matter what, which if the Baseline is exactly the same as the credits you could have purchased, then you never lose. That's not gambling.

    With that said though, if there is something so obviously wrong then by all means we should try to fix that. Complaining about the ROI isn't it, but of course that's just my opinion!


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    CaelanAntidas
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 3,728 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 3
    Not sure how you can say it's not a gambling promotion though, honestly.

    Buy a token to spin a thing that spits things out randomly. 

    ???

    I don't disagree about getting shafted, and those instances should be fixed. The value on things should be fairly close, in all fairness, but I think expecting a baseline isn't in line with what the promotion really is.

    If you want a minimum baseline, then by that same logic, the rewards can't be that great because IRE can't run 30% bonuses every single promotion.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    About the only thing I'd be interested in for this promotion is the custom artefact. I wonder if I can sell the tokens. Can tokens be sold?

  • MarisellaMarisella Member Posts: 140 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    3740h, 3586m, 17388e, 15200w ex 85% - [23:49:55.163] 
    Your soul cries out in ecstasy as it reaches new heights of power. You have advanced to level 81.
    You have reached the illustrious level of 5th Circle of Celestial Power.
    A large, prismatic Wheel of Fortune slows down to a halt, rewarding you with Experience Gain.
    3740h, 3586m, 17388e, 15200w ex 4% - [23:49:56.568] 
    A large, prismatic Wheel of Fortune slows down to a halt, rewarding Ioci with Bound Credits.

    Ioci says with a grumbling, drawn-out accent, "I think I got 10 or 15 bound credits."


    That is a lot of experience for me, and also quite an amount of bound credits for free spins!

    BannAereidhna
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 3,969 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Atalkez said:
    Not sure how you can say it's not a gambling promotion though, honestly. I think expecting a baseline isn't in line with what the promotion really is.

    The point of promotions is to make people spend money when they otherwise wouldn't by rewarding them with things on top of what they'd get buying at literally any other time. Despite the random nature of it, I don't think it's intended to be a gamble at all. You're not intended to lose, you're always intended to win; the only random part is how much you win by. This is the same way that the humgii racing works - as Sarapis said, they're not trying to make a profit (from you losing), they're trying to give you something.

    Atalkez said:
    IRE can't run 30% bonuses every single promotion.

    If running a 30% bonus promotion every single month was the most effective way for IRE to increase credit sales and make money, they would definitely do that and there's no reason they couldn't. Most people will never come close to buying everything that's available, even if they could afford to take advantage of a 30% bonus on a small to medium purchase every month, especially when you factor in that there's constantly new content being added to the game for people to spend money on.

    A lot of promotions give bonuses in excess of 30% when you work them out, they're just not in the form of a flat "here's an extra 30% credits". The crown promotions generally work out at 40-50% based on the average selling price of a crown during the promotion (and can be in excess of 50% if you're willing to wait for the price to go up again).

    FarrahHalos
  • ProficyProficy Member Posts: 131 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Best idea ever.. get rid of all of these rng things like the caches, the new boxes, giftbags... just stick with globes... those things were the best.. simple and addictive
    Aereidhna
  • ExelethrilExelethril moar theta decayMember Posts: 2,996 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    40% credit sale in March, plz :anguished:

    [ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]

    [ Runewarden Sparring Videos | Link ]
    Caelan
  • PrythePrythe Member Posts: 370 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I don't think IRE needs to give us the same ROI as buying credits directly. I think it needs to *average* to the same ROI, or some percentage above. 

    But we can't have the WOWOWOWOW! prizes and everybody still get the same ROI as if they had purchased directly. 

    That said, I have an Elite membership. I tend not to buy extra stuff for these promotions because I know that I am unlikely to WOWOWOW and don't want to give up my guaranteed return. I like to buy 1000 credits once or twice a year when I am active. I love the  Elite bonus, and I really like waiting for the 30% so I am stacking 40%.

    So far on the freebies I have gotten two lottery tickets and 33 bound credits. I was mega excited. I'm easily pleased.

    That's just me and my reasoning. Not saying I am right. Just sharing my own thoughts.


    - To love another person is to see the face of G/d
    - Let me get my hat and my knife
    - It's your apple, take a bite
    - Don't dream it ... be it


    Aereidhna
  • DochithaDochitha Member Posts: 937 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I agree the spins need to be
    "average ROI matching credit prices + x% better + chance to win a really big thing + desired thrill". 
    to entice me to buy.
  • CaelanCaelan Member Posts: 547 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Driden said:
    So there's my feedback to the devs. Don't change a god damn thing. 
    I tend to agree here.  It seems like every promo there is bitching until the gambling turns into a guarantee.  

    My only complaint is that you should be able to buy tokens IG again, because it does shaft people who want to take a GAMBLE but with credits they earned IG which usually requires much more work/time.  (Full disclosure: I bought credits the night before this went up, but did so not expecting the wheel)

    BorranBade
  • CaelanCaelan Member Posts: 547 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Antonius said:
    I think the problem is that you think they're gambling promotions. Here's a quote from Sarapis about the humgii races (when they were introduced as the monthly promotion):
    Sarapis said:
    Yes, because when you go to a track, they are trying to make a profit off you. When you bet on humgii racing, we're trying to give you something. By default you're going to get some credits, on average.
    I don't see why the wheel or giftbags or globes should be any different. The baseline should be "what I could get in credits (i.e. what I can get with my money regardless of the promo) + X% (i.e. the bonus of the promotion)", with a small chance of getting something much better. It shouldn't be "chance to get absolutely shafted and not come close to breaking even or chance to get something much better".
    Then it isn't a 'gamble'.  I don't go to the casino here in CT "knowing" I will break even and everything will be ok.  If I bought lotto tickets, even if they had a promo for 25% off, I wouldn't then turn around and bitch that I didn't break even or win big, ya know?

    Though I would be fine and generally agree if they wanted to ease problems, the *average* as Prythe mentions, over time is not a bad path

    Exelethril
  • EpifaniaEpifania Member Posts: 41 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Haven't tried this promo yet but I also find myself wishing you could buy tokens IC again.
    BorranBadeAereidhna
  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,339 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Borran said:
    About the only thing I'd be interested in for this promotion is the custom artefact. I wonder if I can sell the tokens. Can tokens be sold?
    Well if you sell the tokens, you won't get the raffle tickets. That said, you can not sell tokens already purchased, but if someone pays you credits you can buy them under their character name on the website.

  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited February 3
    Anybody want to buy me 10 tokens and I'll pay them in credits? Let's make a deal. 

    @Nicola The new change shifted my interest in this promo.

  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 3,969 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Caelan said:
    Antonius said:
    I think the problem is that you think they're gambling promotions. Here's a quote from Sarapis about the humgii races (when they were introduced as the monthly promotion):
    Sarapis said:
    Yes, because when you go to a track, they are trying to make a profit off you. When you bet on humgii racing, we're trying to give you something. By default you're going to get some credits, on average.
    I don't see why the wheel or giftbags or globes should be any different. The baseline should be "what I could get in credits (i.e. what I can get with my money regardless of the promo) + X% (i.e. the bonus of the promotion)", with a small chance of getting something much better. It shouldn't be "chance to get absolutely shafted and not come close to breaking even or chance to get something much better".
    Then it isn't a 'gamble'.  I don't go to the casino here in CT "knowing" I will break even and everything will be ok.  If I bought lotto tickets, even if they had a promo for 25% off, I wouldn't then turn around and bitch that I didn't break even or win big, ya know?

    Though I would be fine and generally agree if they wanted to ease problems, the *average* as Prythe mentions, over time is not a bad path
    It's not supposed to be. Buying spins on this wheel is not supposed to be like going to a casino or playing the lottery in real life; I honestly don't know why people think that it is or should be.
    Liyane
  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,339 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Antonius said:
    Caelan said:
    Antonius said:
    I think the problem is that you think they're gambling promotions. Here's a quote from Sarapis about the humgii races (when they were introduced as the monthly promotion):
    Sarapis said:
    Yes, because when you go to a track, they are trying to make a profit off you. When you bet on humgii racing, we're trying to give you something. By default you're going to get some credits, on average.
    I don't see why the wheel or giftbags or globes should be any different. The baseline should be "what I could get in credits (i.e. what I can get with my money regardless of the promo) + X% (i.e. the bonus of the promotion)", with a small chance of getting something much better. It shouldn't be "chance to get absolutely shafted and not come close to breaking even or chance to get something much better".
    Then it isn't a 'gamble'.  I don't go to the casino here in CT "knowing" I will break even and everything will be ok.  If I bought lotto tickets, even if they had a promo for 25% off, I wouldn't then turn around and bitch that I didn't break even or win big, ya know?

    Though I would be fine and generally agree if they wanted to ease problems, the *average* as Prythe mentions, over time is not a bad path
    It's not supposed to be. Buying spins on this wheel is not supposed to be like going to a casino or playing the lottery in real life; I honestly don't know why people think that it is or should be.
    I don't know why you're insisting that it shouldn't.

  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Borran said:
    Anybody want to buy me 10 tokens and I'll pay them in credits? Let's make a deal. 

    @Nicola The new change shifted my interest in this promo.
    I'm willing to pay 235cr for 10 tokens if anyone wants to help a poor person whose credit card debt prevents any rl fiscal commitment.

    Bade
  • FrederichFrederich Member Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    A large, prismatic Wheel of Fortune slows down to a halt, rewarding you with Bound Credits.
    You have received a raffle ticket!
    A large, prismatic Wheel of Fortune slows down to a halt, rewarding you with raffle tickets.
    You have received a raffle ticket!
    A large, prismatic Wheel of Fortune slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a group of 3 Lucrescent nuts and a translucent piece of shunsten.
    You have received a raffle ticket!
    A large, prismatic Wheel of Fortune slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a group of 3 balls of seftonium and a group of 2 cerulean lifestones.
    You have received a raffle ticket!
    A large, prismatic Wheel of Fortune slows down to a halt, rewarding you with an elegant diamond vial.
    You have received a raffle ticket!


    I'll be the first to say this.  If I spent $45 and got bound credits, raffle tickets, 3 lucrescent nuts (which now decay and have a vastly decreased timeframe of use).  Shunsten, 2 consumable heals, raffle tickets, what I assume is a vial full of lucky (12-20 sips)... and that's it from a promo that's screaming "LOOK AT THIS STUFF.  ISNT IT NEAT.  WOULDNT THINK UR COLLECTION IS COMPLETE!!!"


    Then I'd be kinda pissed too.  I could buy like 8 nights of chinese for that much.  Or, more to the point.  125cr + iron realms bonus.... or 50 + iron realms bonus + iron realms membership.

    I don't think it's asking much that we just lose this "I spent 25% cr and all I got were very 'meh' consumables from the wheel."  (Consumables which are very readily available because miners get shittons of them and never do crap with em because you can't sell them to anyone).

    They're the only issue I have (supremely) with the wheel besides the mechanical boxes, that did get fixed.  If I'm paying RL money, I'd like something with a credit value.  Raffle tickets?  Credit value, and chance for a REALLY fucking awesome item.  Artie vial?  Credit value.  Lessons?  Usually like 30cr worth of em.  Good for p. much anyone.

    3 nuts and a raremineral...?


    Not so much.  That's literally my only gripe with giving out that stuff as a 'consolation' prize.  Either give a prismatic token with it, or give ENOUGH of it to go "okay.  That's not so bad."
    ShaydeOzmatiahRoagnak
Sign In to Comment.