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  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,751 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 12
    * You may now perform ICEFIST/VOIDFIST/FLAMEFIST/AIRFIST following a Two Arts slash, but only when in the stance that supports said fist 
    type. So sanya for voidfist, arash for flamefist, etc.

    Oh god.

    Oh god what have you done.



    For those not in the know:

    Airfist prevents parrying,
    Flamefist prevents rebounding aura from coming up at the expensive of significantly reduced bleeding for the next x seconds
    Icefist prevents the use of any touch based tattoos for a fixed duration of time
    Voidfist gives a percentage chance for any herb you eat to simply do absolutely nothing.

    This now means that a BM can break into concussion + voidfist, or balanceslash+icefist in group fights to royally turbofuck anyone low-mobile enough to not escape them, and they can do it from Mir, as well. BSP+IF doesn't seem that bad until you realize that once you come back from the balance malus, you can't touch shield, tree or crystal, you're probably hamstrung from the prep before and you've now got either an angry blademaster about to wreck your shit, or a group of people noticing that you're a juicy piece of defenseless meat.

    Not to mention the Sanya support BM's rolling in with affs, limb breaks and voidfisted hypochondria pommels. Holy fuckballs this is ridiculous.

    I expect to see Mizik or Jhui absolutely steamrolling nerds with some gimpy strat using this within a fortnight.

    Also I'm not complaining about this, BM has needed some groupfight love for ages and between aoe hamstring and this, the class is in a superb place for both 1v1 and group support now. Sanya was already really good but having void after slashes is a huge boon, esp with head prep strats.
    :pleased::pleased:
    SynbiosAsmodron
  • DunnDunn The great Buffalo tundraMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,222 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Airfist is percent chance to bypass parry at least. 


  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,751 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Also:

    * There is now a third-person message when someone places a soulfire crucible in a room.

    haha lol

    :pleased::pleased:
  • DunnDunn The great Buffalo tundraMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,222 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Class switch serpent light crucible evade s haha lol I can't see cause of deathsight. 


  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,751 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It's more haha lol at the fact that it didn't have a 3rd person message in the first place. I'm kind of amazed I never realised that.
    :pleased::pleased:
    ShirszaeDunn
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 3,518 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You realize that you can't do any of that without swapping stance first right? BM has no quick way to swap stance like kai transition.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • DunnDunn The great Buffalo tundraMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,222 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Not to mention stance swapping screws with all the break values too... hated that about BM. 


    AtalkezKenway
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 3,518 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 12
    Also you've lost some functionality here as well. Since flamedfist is tied to Arash, now you can't negate rebounding without taking a subpar speed stance and increased damage. So there goes using flamefist in Thyr to try the pommel stack attack, since Arash sucks for accuracy and speed.

    You also can't airfist to bypass Parry while in Mir anymore va knights. Now you're stuck in Thyr if you want to use it.

    Feel like BM just took a massive hit to flexibility of the class. Not a fan currently, I'll need to dig more.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,751 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 12
    I'm pointing out single stance slash+fist combinations as being very strong (as they are). Sanya is a decent stance for most things, Thyr getting fluid parry chance reduction makes it even better, Arash getting fluid flamefist makes its potential damage chain output even scarier, Mir getting fluid icefist makes BM support via bsl+if as mentioned earlier in groupfights even more appealing.

    I'm aware that you can't change stances quickly. You don't need to for this change to have an impact on BM's strength as a whole - a lot of the elemental fists already synergize with their respective stance strengths well anyway.

    That's some good points on functionality lost overall though, hmm. Wonder if the strength of the chained fists will be enough to negate that - losing AF from Mir prep against knights like you said seems nasty. Having meditate work either for non-stanced elemental fists w/o chaining or evade seems like an elegant enough fix.
    :pleased::pleased:
  • DunnDunn The great Buffalo tundraMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,222 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I think you can still do them stand alone without being in the stance. Just need to be in the appropriate stance to couple it with a slash, no?


    RomAtalkezKenway
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 3,518 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It's a solid change for group but at face value I feel like it's a pretty big nerf to 1v1.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 885 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Dunn said:
    I think you can still do them stand alone without being in the stance. Just need to be in the appropriate stance to couple it with a slash, no?
    This is how I read it, just lets you combo a little more fluid.
    DunnAtalkezBorranShirszae
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 3,518 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Oh I read it as being tied purely to that.

    So you can use it normally without any other issues? Like I said I needed to dig more.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 885 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited January 12
    Atalkez said:
    Oh I read it as being tied purely to that.

    So you can use it normally without any other issues? Like I said I needed to dig more.
    The way the sentence is structured is that you CAN use it following a two-arts slash, but only if you are in the relevant stance to allow it, so I would assume you can still fist seperately in any stance, but to combo it with a TA slash you must be in the right stance.

    otherwise surely it would have "you may only perform (fists) after performing a two-arts slash and while in the relevant stance". I could be wrong, but just seems like a minor convenience buff for group combat.

    edit: if you are right it's a painful nerf for some modicum (depending on arties) buff to group combat, I don't think it is a warrented nerf for it.
  • CailanCailan Member Posts: 141 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    So glad I can delete my super buggy gmcp crucible script now
    Mathilda
  • ExelethrilExelethril EleusisMember Posts: 2,882 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The stay in Mir/airfist slow prep/limbprobe strat works p well against knights, since you won't die to < 22 str DWC disembowels

    [ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]

    [ Runewarden Sparring Videos | Link ]
  • FarrahFarrah Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 981 @ - Epic Achaean
    You know people can die to DSBs without it being a one-shot from full, right?
  • ExelethrilExelethril EleusisMember Posts: 2,882 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yeah but super tanky bms that run/fly before getting locked are a thing

    [ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]

    [ Runewarden Sparring Videos | Link ]
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,020 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Dat Arash perma mangle no rebounding, tho
    image
    Aerek
  • KenwayKenway San FranciscoMember Posts: 1,097 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Mizik said:
    Dat Arash perma mangle no rebounding, tho
    Shhhhhhhh let me have fun with it first 

    - Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
    "Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
    AerekDochitha
  • JhuiJhui Member Posts: 1,942 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    i don't get it. people can already be perma mangled.  it might give a little more margin for error.

    this doesn't help with people that tumble out of/into room hinder.  Those are the only people that matter.  Everyone else dies the same.

    Not that BM needs help with those things, just clarifying what this really means.

    as for the other slash/fists.  They all require sacrificing something positive from the other stances to be able to do them.  Nothing OP about them at all.  If voidfist was comboable in thyr or arash, you might have a reason to be worried.
    image
    Exelethril
  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USAMember Posts: 1,795 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 13
    Yeah, I think that change will be nice, but not really game breaking. It's not that BM can do anything now that they couldn't do before, it's just that it's slightly more convenient now, and slightly less telegraphed. Requiring the associated stances kinda took all the "OP" out of the change and just made it a streamlining thing.

    Still, 1.1s Airfist is a nice thing.
    -- Grounded in one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
    Exelethril
  • RomRom Member Posts: 477 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Aerek said:
    Still, 1.1s Airfist is a nice thing.
    As you draw Relentless Icewyrm from its scabbard, you drive the pommel into Iakimen's chin.
    Strike what, Warrior?
    4752h, 5227m, 19045e, 20600w edb- 26 00:04:18.592
    You have recovered balance on all limbs. (1.26s)
    4752h, 5227m, 19045e, 20600w exdb- 26 00:04:19.852
    As you draw Relentless Icewyrm from its scabbard, you drive the pommel into Iakimen's chin.
    Freeing your mind to the unpredictable dance of the wind, you hurl a blow towards Iakimen.
    4752h, 5227m, 19030e, 20600w edb- 11 00:04:21.936
    You have recovered balance on all limbs. (2.798s)
    4752h, 5227m, 19030e, 20600w exdb- 11 00:04:24.735

    Legslash Iakimen ------------ LEFT
    4752h, 5227m, 19060e, 20600w edb- 37 00:04:53.731
    You have recovered balance on all limbs. (2.032s)
    4752h, 5227m, 19060e, 20600w exdb- 37 00:04:55.763
    Legslash Iakimen ------------ LEFT
    Iakimen parries the attack with a deft manoeuvre.
    Freeing your mind to the unpredictable dance of the wind, you hurl a blow towards Iakimen.
    4752h, 5227m, 19030e, 20600w edb- 22 00:05:10.525
    You have recovered balance on all limbs. (2.687s)
    4752h, 5227m, 19030e, 20600w exdb- 22 00:05:13.212

    Seems whenever you strike with a fist you will have the regular balance recovery time for fists.
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 1,996 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Well yeah, you wont need to repeatedly cast a fist. They still have a good timer to them.
  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USAMember Posts: 1,795 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Rom said:

    Seems whenever you strike with a fist you will have the regular balance recovery time for fists.
    Oh. Well in that case, this is a pretty small change. Hardly world-ending.
    -- Grounded in one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
  • SynbiosSynbios Member Posts: 4,349 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Aerek said:
    Rom said:

    Seems whenever you strike with a fist you will have the regular balance recovery time for fists.
    Oh. Well in that case, this is a pretty small change. Hardly world-ending.
    I don't know...it's still a very convenient change. Even with the added 1-ish second balance difference, you can still continue prepping/pressing your damage pressure.

  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,751 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    A bit disappointing that it doesn't inherit speed of the prevailing slash like every other skill in Striking. Intentional or oversight, I wonder?
    :pleased::pleased:
  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USAMember Posts: 1,795 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Likely intentional, to avoid the powerful possibilities that we first imagined, but I'd say that given the stance restrictions, that seems a little extra conservative. I'm not going to switch into Mir or Sanya just to chain a fist with a slowed-down slash. Airfist in Thyr and Flamefist in Arash will see some use, but past that the change is much more benign than we'd feared/hoped. 
    -- Grounded in one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
  • MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,245 Achaean staff
    Its intentional. We'll see how this goes then go from there.
  • ArmaliArmali Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 556 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    It's great QoL just for raze/fist, imo.
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